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striperfisher99

Guide question

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I am planning on building a lami gsb1028 9' surf rod. I need some help on which sizes of kw guides to order. I plan on putting a vs150 on it. Any suggestions on what sizes I should order?

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I would order 1 of each size from 40 down to 12, then several size 10's or 8's whatever the smallest size you plan on using. Test cast them, an dsee wha tset up YOU like best.

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for KW's Use a 30L not a 30 J in most cases. I also think 16 , 12 , 10 jams them up a little sometimes. often its best to go from a 16 to the 10 and leave the 12 out. Anyway , Billy has the right idea. Buy a whole series and then try out the different combos using the NGC techniques to place them. then shift around based on your stress test and test casting.

 

Soecifically on a VS 150 , a 25 KW will often make a good stripper .

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I have found that with a rod over 10"6" and a spool of over 2" that the 30L K can give you some line slap. I also won't and didn't suggest using a 12 and 10 just one or the other. I have found that eye balling the K guides to line up the rings like a COF layout too the runner guides. Depending on how it looks a 12 or 10 just befor the transition would be the way to go and I'll bet the 10 will be the winner!. Have done many of these now and it works great!!

 

With a 9' or 10 ft the 30L might be a better choice but I would check how it casts with both and see which is better. The main idea is to get the line down quick and if you can use a 30L But I would bet the 25 as the stripper would be tits on that rod. It's a trial and error kind of thing that you should mess with.

 

[img=http://www.stripersonline.com/image/id/3212949/width/600/height/450]

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Surfmaster: Looking at the photo above I am wondering what happens when you shorten the reduction train even more. We are seeing really good results when we use Fuji's new KR CONCEPT "Rapid Choke" on smaller rods and I am wondering how it will work on heavier set-ups. What would happen in your opinion if you took out the last two reduction guides, replaced them with runners, reshot the line back to the stripper and repositioned the remaining reduction guides (2) as needed for NGC? This would not only shorten the train, but slightly compress the guides I think. It would also lighten your tip section a whisker, reduce recovery time, etc.. Pros? Cons?

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Jo, I need to stop thinking like a factory guy for a minute..... Ok. I haven't had the chance yet to mess with the KR setup but I think it would work without a doubt. I think all that needs to be done is figure out the best distance for the stripper after that it's cake!! My only fear on blanks that are more moderate in action is that distance from spool to gather. I'm a firm beleiver in blank protection and a blank that bends into the handle I don't like that "bow effect" in that reel to first guide, or power section of the blank! If the KR doesn't kick it out to far (AKA Low Rider) the results will be great.. less tip mass. even more then what that layout in the picture has will increase the recovery rate of the blank big time!

 

so your cons.. Will it push the gather up too far?? also one reason I like the LDB's is the low profile and the shape of the guide makes them very tough. I have a jetty stick that I have used for 4 years that is beat to shat and I have never had a issue with those guides on the tip. So will these K singles take that abuse?? The tip runners i'm talking about!! Pros.. Lighten the tip (and blank) shoot the line right down!! Win Win !! For custom builders this should be a no brainer.. for the stubborn fisherman NGC is still not an easy sell. I will and I know SF Mike will be doing this on longer rods only because... We Can!! We will give you our results and pro and cons when this happens for sure, We need real life data to see! I missed casting that rad you had at HP and I'm sorry I did!! As a factory guy I'll say this.. Bass and other freshwater have gone micro big time and surf guys builders and fisherman need to see the light about these guide setups. Many are dyed in the wool still about wire gathers and what not and they have a misconception that bigger and less guides means less friction.. They will switch from Mono but still use the same guide set ups. They will use the "High performance rods" But still want only 6 guides on it.. That said St Croix at least is moving things along with the Low Rider setups..

 

I for one am taking chances and walking a fine line with guide layouts in hopes that guys will accept them!! I also think that thinking outside the box and pushing the envelope is the only way to move forward no matter what anyone thinks. I know that most won't go for the layout pictured above (which is my own rod BTW) but I know it works and I know the benifeits!! I think at very least the KR setup would benifeit the back bay light action 7 1/2 to 9" rod. I know it'll benifeit the longer rods but.. how heavy of a rated oz wise rod are we willing to take it too?? I'll give it a shot got nothing to lose but time.. LOL...

 

Oh.. I will say that I think the KR setup will be tits on salmon type rods and I may mess with this while SF Mike can mess with the surf stuff. I see nothing but good coming from the setup with salmon/steelhead type rods!;)

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Surfmaster you make a very good point about some guys being skeptical of the NEW GUIDE CONCEPT...AFTER 30 YEARS of testing!!!!! Based on that alone I don't think we have to worry about the KR CONCEPT taking over too fast! I visited a local builder the other day (Gulf Coast and offshore mainly) and the rod being finished sported a wire 50mm stripper. A WIRE 50! It was followed by a 40, 30, 25...like little piggies in a row. The builder looked me in the eye and claimed that it was a very popular layout along the Alabama coast. Kill me now. I can't think of another endeavor where people go to such extreme measures (i.e. the complexity of building an entire rod) and never consider tinkering with the latest technology. For me the real payoff is pushing limits and pulling something out of the truck nobody's seen before. The real surprise is, like you say, fishermen go to the trouble and expense of having a 30 year old layout "custom" built...or is it the recommendations of the builder they rely on??? If the entire rod building community embraced the technological advancements they've been given the past few years, I think they'd all be building more rods because resistance at the custom level creates skepticism at the consumer level! I'm not trying to ruffle the feathers of the builders who find good performance and relative comfort in a proven layout. Only suggesting that as a group, we could (and should) be the source for all things new.

 

I have no idea how I got from stripper position to this soapbox. Backing up...

 

Fuji suggests that the stripper be positioned according to the NGC for KR CONCEPT layouts. Put the stripper where you always have and tweak as needed. The "new" stuff happens between the stripper and the updated choke point.

 

I suppose I should say I am affiliated with Anglers Resource.

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I believe the KR layout wuold work fine. The new "KB" (i think) guides designated as the runners for this only go up to 4.5, so aint selling a 11 surf rod with 4.4 running guides. But as with any other guide layout concept you can use the concept and your beloved LBD's (surfmaster) and do the same thing. Of course you still have the hurdle of sellling people on those little 6's starting about 1/2 way up the rod vs just the last 1/3. I do think this will work well but acceptance is another thing. To surfmasters point on light 7-9' rods salmon or back bay rods it shuould make a great rod if only i had my KL-H guides to play with (yes Croaker Jo i take every opportunity to be annoying)

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