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DesertCatFish

302, 402 Ball Bearings: Which Way Do They Face?

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Well I got  the Mitchell 302, and the two 402s torn all the way down. In each case -- except the 302 which was totally screwed up -- there was so much grease in the ball bearings there was no way to determine which direction the ball bearings face. On one side you can see the ball bearings, and on the other there is a metal plate. So it becomes important to determine which way the Ball Bearings face, so I'll ask here, as someone must know: Do the ball bearings face IN towards the center of the reel? Or do they face OUT towards the Rotor?? In addition -- at least on the two 402s -- there is a thin plastic washer, which I am going to assume is Ball Bearing Shield and it situated right outside the Ball Bearings facing the Rotor. Right now I am waiting for the NOS to come in so I can rebuild them. One last question: I use Quantum Hot Sauce. In the past I simply applied the grease to EVERYTHING -- gears, shaft, oscillating guide, oscillating slide, and any internal surface so as to prevent rust (it is amazing that all three reels showed internal parts some of which were rusty, or corroded ). If it moved, it was greased. On the PLUS side all that grease made the reel PURR, on the MINUS side I've been reading that not  every part should be greased, some should get OILED. Which parts should be GREASED, and which -- if any -- should be OILED?? 



 



Thanks


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I always install my bearings inward. I don't think it really matters. Adding a Custom Penn drag, and a custom levelwind cam really improves these old work horse reels. Generally I grease gears and oil bearings. 302/402 bearings are nonsealed bearings so I pack them like you would wheel bearings for automobile wheel bearings.

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I'm not sure it makes any difference, but I normally install bearings "inward". I use a synthetic oil (clock oil) on bearings, Liquid Bearings is one brand.......this stuff's great on bearings. I like the Penn "blue grease" for gears, non-moving parts, and the insides of the reel body/side plates. It's about $5.00 for the 2oz. tub vs about $8.50 for a 3/4 oz tube of Hot Sauce.

Oh, BTW, the Penn HT100 drags which fare used in a 155 conventional Penn reel will fit the 302/402 and will dramatically improve the drag performance of these reels.

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"Oh, BTW, the Penn HT100 drags which fare used in a 155 conventional Penn reel will fit the 302/402 and will dramatically improve the drag performance of these reels."



 



I read a lot about modifying the Mitchell drag with the Penn HT100 / 155 and that is on my list as one of the things I want to do, that said I have questions about how to go about it. In the Mitchell  302, 402 drag system I think there are like 4 or 5 washers, plus the ratchet, and clicker, the click spring, etc. I think in all there are 11 or 12 parts to the 402 drag. Do the  Penn HT100 /155 drag washers simply replace the metal washers  in the Mitchell drag system? Is the assembly of the drag stack exactly the same, and in the same order?



 



The other modification  -- at least on one of the reels -- is that I  am going to add a crosswise cam rather than the standard planamatic gearing system. Adding the HT100 / 155 drag system plus using a crosswise cam probably will increase the performance of the reel.



 



It was amazing  to see what  was in the reels when I took them apart. The old grease plus the Hot Sauce I had previously added made for an "interesting"  gooey  sight. I spent a lot of time with paper towels and Q-tips to remove the old grease. Now all the parts are CLEAN (some will be either scrapped or used further down the food chain ie the used part  is in better shape than another part) awaiting just to be reassembled. In your experience, have you noticed any internal parts that are either rusty or corroded?? I sanded the rust /corrosion off as best I could, and when I put the  part back in (unless I can find a better quality part in the "junk reel")  I am going to make SURE that the part is well greased! 



 



Thanks for your help.



 



 


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The fiber washers (NT-100 need to go between metal washers to work.... sort of a sandwich. If you enjoy those reels I suggest you pick up a couple so you have a source of spare parts.

 

377

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tman1 View Post

The fiber washers (NT-100 need to go between metal washers to work.... sort of a sandwich. If you enjoy those reels I suggest you pick up a couple so you have a source of spare parts.

377



 At the risk of sounding stupid, you have  the "keyed" washers (part 81370  "Keyed Drag Disk"  8B on the above  diagram) and the Drag  washers (part 81371 "Drag Disk" 8A on the above diagram). On the 402 you also  have a Teflon Drag Washer (part 81443) which lies right below the first keyed drag disk. Between which metal washers do I put the  fiber washers to make the "sandwich"??? Does the ratchet  (part 81373 part 7C in the above diagram), the "Click Spring" (part  81374 part 7B in the above diagram)  followed by the "Collard Spacer" (part 81376 part  7A on the above diagram)  above which there is another "Drag Disk" washer (part 81371, part 8A in the above diagram) -- do all these remain as in the above diagram, or do the fiber washers replace some of the above washers -- ie do the fiber washers replace say the "Drag Washers" (part 8A); or are they  in addition to the above washers?!?  How many fiber washers do I need? Finally  do I need the Penn HT 100 series of washers, or the NT series of washers? do you  have  a Penn part number for the washers??



 



Got the  brass Crosswind Cam in; I have temporarily installed in a reel to spool up some 12# mono. Nice!!! The next step is to rebuild the drag  system/s of some or all of the reels. First  I  have to figure out  how  to rebuild the drag  system.....

 



 


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Here's how I do mine. I leave out the clicker parts. You may need to add another keyed washer (keyed to the shaft) and HT-100 to the bottom of the stack for clearance. This is a super smooth drag system.

 

2hwioly.jpg

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingfshr View Post

Here's how I do mine. I leave out the clicker parts. You may need to add another keyed washer (keyed to the shaft) and HT-100 to the bottom of the stack for clearance. This is a super smooth drag system.

2hwioly.jpg



O.K. this looks good. So.... I need 6 of the HT100 fiber drag washers;  2 of the "Keyed Drag Disks" (part 81370  "Keyed Drag Disk",  8B on the diagram); and  2 of the Drag  washers (part 81371 "Drag Disk" 8A on the diagram). The Mitchell also 402 has an additional Teflon washer (part 81443) which would lies right below -- if your picture is correct -- the first HT 100 fiber drag washer... or do I  need to remove the Teflon Washer?? Beyond that, do you have a Part Number for the HT100 fiber drag washers -- my  bet is  like the Mitchell drag washers there are "Keyed Drag Disks" (those that have tabs on the disks) and those that do not ).



 



A question  -- this might be wayyy to simple -- does anyone have a Mitchell Drag "conversion kit" ie a kit that has all the  fiber washers etc., necessary to convert from the Mitchell Drag System, over to the Penn HT 100 Drag system?!? I  can always look it up on line if I know there is a "kit" available.  Most of  my searches have yielded ZERO, but  it  is  possible that I was looking for  the wrong thing (that was why I was asking about the Part Number for the HT 100 fiber drag washers). 



 



Finally there is some discussion about  this: Do I need to oil or lube the washers VERY VERY LIGHTLY before I install them?!? There seems to almost be a war about this. Me?!? I --  at least up to this point -- would VERY, VERY, LIGHTLY oil the brass or copper washers then  wipe them off leaving just the thinnest of film on each washer. By adding the Penn HT100  fiber washers would this a a desirable thing to do or not?



 



Thank you for your  help. 

 



 


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HT-100 part # is 6-155 (these are round not keyed). You'll need 3 part # 8a washers, 2-# 8b, 6- # 6-155 .The teflon washer can be substituted for one of the HT-100 washers. I lightly lubricate drag washers on all my reels. I don't know of anybody offering a specific kit to convert the drags.

 

Install in this order: Teflon washer or (HT-100), #8a, Ht-100, #8b, HT-100, #8a, HT-100, #8b, HT-100, #8a, HT-100, #7a, #6 and last #4. Put the collars on #7a and #4 inside the spring (#6).

 

We use this drag set up for Pier King Mackeral fishing with 12 to 20 lb mono line in the Panhandle of Fl. My personal best King is 28 lbs with this set up.

 

I hope this helps.

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Yes the fiber washer needs to go between the metal washers- On your 402 start off witha teflon washer. You can exchange teflon for any of the fiber washers to decrease max drag and make it spin easier (for example if using very light lines) as Kingfshr said.. Pick up some of the HT's and experiment- I think that they are about $1-1.25 each.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingfshr View Post

HT-100 part # is 6-155 (these are round not keyed). You'll need 3 part # 8a washers, 2-# 8b, 6- # 6-155 .The teflon washer can be substituted for one of the HT-100 washers. I lightly lubricate drag washers on all my reels. I don't know of anybody offering a specific kit to convert the drags.

Install in this order: Teflon washer or (HT-100), #8a, Ht-100, #8b, HT-100, #8a, HT-100, #8b, HT-100, #8a, HT-100, #7a, #6 and last #4. Put the collars on #7a and #4 inside the spring (#6).

We use this drag set up for Pier King Mackeral fishing with 12 to 20 lb mono line in the Panhandle of Fl. My personal best King is 28 lbs with this set up.

I hope this helps.



Thank You, Thank You Thank You!!!!  My bet is you  just answered THE  question  many people ask  as far as the Penn Drag System  conversion for the Mitchell 302, 402 reels.



 



So my Winter/Spring projects are now lined up. Still waiting cwm33.gif for the NOS parts to come in shakehead.gifso  I can rebuild  two of the 3 reels (now torn down, cleaned, and each boxed so parts don't get mixed up). In the meantime I'll search online for the Penn HT 100 part number 6-155, and order many washers as I can smile.gif as I have 5 spools and plan to retrofit at least 3 of them.



 



As far as the mono goes, Yep that is the exact same range I fish: 12# on the low end, 20# on the high end. When I lived in the West  Indies twenty years ago (!!!) I used 17# if I could get it, otherwise 15#, and 20# if I could get neither.  A 7# Bonefish could break 12# line during the initial strike ( I learned that the hard way; true, I had a junky reel, which is why I bought my first Mitchell 402, still I never forgot that jarring experience of a Bonefish strike....).  Now when I go to FL to visit a friend who lives on a brackish portion of the  St. John River, I fish with 12# or 15# line, which should be more than adequate unless I hook Channel Cats or Tarpon, or some large  Stripers, so I also walk spooled up with some 17# and #20 line which the last time I was there, never got wet, next time.... Ah  I can  only  hope to tangle with a MONSTER fish....



 



Again THANK  YOU for your HELP



 



DesertCatFish



 


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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tman1 View Post

 

Yes the fiber washer needs to go between the metal washers- On your 402 start off witha teflon washer. You can exchange teflon for any of the fiber washers to decrease max drag and make it spin easier (for example if using very light lines) as Kingfshr said.. Pick up some of the HT's and experiment- I think that they are about $1-1.25 each.

 

The lightest line I'll be using is 12# mono.  The three 402 spools are loaded with 17#, 20#, and 30#, so I'll probably  leave the Teflon washer in place; now on  the 302 spools which don't have a Teflon washer.... they will hold the 12# and 15#. I'll probably initially convert the the 12#, 15#,  and 20# spools.

 

 

 

Next stop: try  to find  HT 100  part number 6-155.

 

 

 

Thank you for your help.

 

 

 

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Thank you Kingfshr for the  attempt, unfortunately all that came across was "www.**********". Armed with the Part Number 



HT 100 6-155 however I quickly  found a place in NJ that  was selling them for $0.70/ea ..... so I bought 18 !!! smile.gif  The only goofy part was when I placed the order it asked me to list the reel, and all the reels listed were -- natch -- Penns. So I picked one A Penn  155, hehehe.  Who would have thought  I'd rebuild a Mitchell drag system, using Penn fiber washers.... Any rate that  will allow me to rebuild the drags of 3 of the 5 spools. Thanks to you it will be a piece of cake to rebuild them -- I suspect your post today helped not just me, but many other people as well.  I  suspect by this time next Friday, the drag washers  will be in, and I'll be tearing the drags down, and rebuilding  them.



 



Again, Thank You Kingfshr for all your  help.



 



Sincerely,



 



The DesertCatFish


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The lightest line I'll be using is 12# mono.  The three 402 spools are loaded with 17#, 20#, and 30#, so I'll probably  leave the Teflon washer in place; now on  the 302 spools which don't have a Teflon washer.... they will hold the 12# and 15#. I'll probably initially convert the the 12#, 15#,  and 20# spools.

 

Next stop: try  to find  HT 100  part number 6-155.

 

Thank you for your help.

 

 

You can replace the HT with teflon too!- start with one, try two .... see what works best for your application.

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