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The Mad Deckhand

Bill O'Reilly's "Lincoln" fail

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Critics: O'Reilly Lincoln book inaccurate

 

190

 

WASHINGTON, Nov. 13 (UPI) -- Critics claim Bill O'Reilly's new book about Abraham Lincoln is inaccurate and sloppy with facts, even though the book is at the top of the bestseller's list.

 

"Killing Lincoln: The Shocking Assassination That Changed America Forever," has been banned from the store at Ford's Theater, the site where Lincoln was killed, the Washington Post reported.

 

Deputy Superintendent of Ford's Theater National Historical Site Rae Emerson said the book was an "unsanitized and uncompromising ... no spin American story" that is slim on documentation.

 

"If the authors made mistakes in names, places, and events, what else did they get wrong? How can the reader rely on anything that appears in 'Killing Lincoln?' " wrote historian Edward Steers Jr. in a book review in "North & South — The Official Magazine of the Civil War Society."

 

Steers wrote O'Reilly -- a political commentator on Fox News -- and co-author Martin Dugard relied too heavily on secondary sources that themselves are inaccurate.

 

"The authors have chosen to write a story based . . . (on) a few dozen secondary books that range from excellent to positively dreadful . . . (with) no vetting . . . treating them as equal," Steers said.

 

 

Almost every historian I have heard from has panned this book. Why did Bill write it? To make $.

 

Why don't people buy books from full time historians? Because we live in a pop culture.

 

Sure, Bill was completely unqualified to write this book, that didn't stop it from making the best seller list. What does that tell you about the importance of "facts" when it comes to American history?

MDH

 

 

Review from SBrizek -

I like Bill O'Reilly very much. He has done the people a great service by having many who know little or nothing at all about the subject of this book induced to learn about it and perhaps to become interested in that subject in a way that never would have been possible had not HE been its author. But those folks deserved better.

I am someone who knows a great deal about this subject and, as such, when reading this book, contrary to never feeling as though I could not put it down, I found myself instead periodically feeling like throwing it across the room. Why? Because of the agonizingly regular appearance of errors. Errors matter because when one comes across information which, despite years of study of a subject, appears to be new, instead of celebrating the discovery of that new information or the appreciation of having understood an old story from a new perspective because of that new information, one is left with the overriding suspicion that the new information is not new at all, but only appears to be so because it is not true.

Some examples: Booth did not bore a peep hole in the wall of the hallway leading to the Presidential Box at Ford's Theater, he bore that hole in a door, a door which is there at Ford's Theater to this very day for anyone who visits the site to see for himself. Did Mr. O'Reilly visit Ford's Theater?

Mr. O'Reilly concludes his account of the surrender at Appomattox by observing that Grant and Lee would never meet again, when, in fact, they met the next day and conducted follow-up surrender negotiations on horseback, and met again in 1869 when Lee visited the White House to confer with Grant after he became President.

Mr. O'Reilly tells of Grant, upon returning to Washington from City Point, going over to the White House to see Lincoln and meeting with him in the Oval Office. There was no Oval Office in 1865, and there would not be one until the 20th Century. Grant met with Lincoln in Lincoln's office on the second floor of the White House where today is located the room called the "Lincoln Bedroom".

Details like these are important: Why else include them in the book in the first place? When details worthy for inclusion in the book are inaccurate the inaccuracies matter when they accumulate to the point where the credibility of the entire enterprise is put at risk and the book's reliability becomes suspect.That point is reached in this book.

The book needed vetting it never received, and suffers as a result. The folks who read this book and put it down having learned a story they never before knew or fully appreciated might now be inspired to learn more about that story. The regret is that Mr. O'Reilly did not do a better job of giving them the head start he probably intended for them to have in order to succeed in that worthy effort.

 

 

Urrrrrg!

 

Pass on this book.

 

MDH.

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Tom Brokaw was unqualified to write a book on the WWII generation too I suppose? O'Reilly has a BA in history, Brokaw a BA in Political Science. O'Reilly taught history to high school kids, Brokaw never taught. These facts, by themselves, may not prove expertise, but they lean much more in O'Reilly's direction as to who is "qualified". If you don't like O'Reilly, thats your perogative, but this condemnation is petty at best IMO. Glad we got that important fact about what room in the White House a meeting was held though.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddy View Post

 

You include a review by someone who posted their thoughts on the barnes and noble website?

 

cwm27.gifcwm27.gifcwm27.gifcwm27.gif

 

A new low for SOL's PG forum. Hell, we're scraping the bottom of the internet for book reviews to try to take a dig at O'Reily? 

 

How about we discuss the Bill Ayres (anti-American terrorist) written series of books attributed to Barack Hussein Obama. It's clear they weren't written by Barry Hussein himself. Friggin fraud. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mad Deckhand View Post

 

Critics: O'Reilly Lincoln book inaccurate

 

190

 

WASHINGTON, Nov. 13 (UPI) -- Critics claim Bill O'Reilly's new book about Abraham Lincoln is inaccurate and sloppy with facts, even though the book is at the top of the bestseller's list.

 

"Killing Lincoln: The Shocking Assassination That Changed America Forever," has been banned from the store at Ford's Theater, the site where Lincoln was killed, the Washington Post reported.

 

Deputy Superintendent of Ford's Theater National Historical Site Rae Emerson said the book was an "unsanitized and uncompromising ... no spin American story" that is slim on documentation.

 

"If the authors made mistakes in names, places, and events, what else did they get wrong? How can the reader rely on anything that appears in 'Killing Lincoln?' " wrote historian Edward Steers Jr. in a book review in "North & South — The Official Magazine of the Civil War Society."

 

Steers wrote O'Reilly -- a political commentator on Fox News -- and co-author Martin Dugard relied too heavily on secondary sources that themselves are inaccurate.

 

"The authors have chosen to write a story based . . . (on) a few dozen secondary books that range from excellent to positively dreadful . . . (with) no vetting . . . treating them as equal," Steers said.

 

Almost every historian I have heard from has panned this book. Why did Bill write it? To make $.

 

Why don't people buy books from full time historians? Because we live in a pop culture.

 

Sure, Bill was completely unqualified to write this book, that didn't stop it from making the best seller list. What does that tell you about the importance of "facts" when it comes to American history?

 

MDH

 

Review from SBrizek -

Quote:

I like Bill O'Reilly very much. He has done the people a great service by having many who know little or nothing at all about the subject of this book induced to learn about it and perhaps to become interested in that subject in a way that never would have been possible had not HE been its author. But those folks deserved better.

 

I am someone who knows a great deal about this subject and, as such, when reading this book, contrary to never feeling as though I could not put it down, I found myself instead periodically feeling like throwing it across the room. Why? Because of the agonizingly regular appearance of errors. Errors matter because when one comes across information which, despite years of study of a subject, appears to be new, instead of celebrating the discovery of that new information or the appreciation of having understood an old story from a new perspective because of that new information, one is left with the overriding suspicion that the new information is not new at all, but only appears to be so because it is not true.

 

Some examples: Booth did not bore a peep hole in the wall of the hallway leading to the Presidential Box at Ford's Theater, he bore that hole in a door, a door which is there at Ford's Theater to this very day for anyone who visits the site to see for himself. Did Mr. O'Reilly visit Ford's Theater?

 

Mr. O'Reilly concludes his account of the surrender at Appomattox by observing that Grant and Lee would never meet again, when, in fact, they met the next day and conducted follow-up surrender negotiations on horseback, and met again in 1869 when Lee visited the White House to confer with Grant after he became President.

 

Mr. O'Reilly tells of Grant, upon returning to Washington from City Point, going over to the White House to see Lincoln and meeting with him in the Oval Office. There was no Oval Office in 1865, and there would not be one until the 20th Century. Grant met with Lincoln in Lincoln's office on the second floor of the White House where today is located the room called the "Lincoln Bedroom".

 

Details like these are important: Why else include them in the book in the first place? When details worthy for inclusion in the book are inaccurate the inaccuracies matter when they accumulate to the point where the credibility of the entire enterprise is put at risk and the book's reliability becomes suspect.That point is reached in this book.

 

The book needed vetting it never received, and suffers as a result. The folks who read this book and put it down having learned a story they never before knew or fully appreciated might now be inspired to learn more about that story. The regret is that Mr. O'Reilly did not do a better job of giving them the head start he probably intended for them to have in order to succeed in that worthy effort.

Urrrrrg!

 

Pass on this book.

 

MDH.

 

FAIL. Bwahahahaha. 

 

 

 

 

 

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FAIL. Bwahahahaha. 

 

 

 

 

No Jeff, your post is a fail.

Fail with a capitol F.

 

I included that particular review, because it was spot on and it was ....get this....WRITTEN BY AN O'RILLEY FAN!

 

Please feel free to tell us how the book is factually accurate if you think otherwise.

 

Or can you do anything besides take cheep shots at all my threads?

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You include a review by someone who posted their thoughts on the barnes and noble website?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

Yes I did. If you don't like it you tell me why he's wrong.

 

Go ahead, Eddie....we're waiting.....

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Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mad Deckhand View Post

 

No Jeff, your post is a fail.

 

Fail with a capitol F.

 

I included that particular review, because it was spot on and it was ....get this....WRITTEN BY AN O'RILLEY FAN!

 

Please feel free to tell us how the book is factually accurate if you think otherwise.

 

Or can you do anything besides take cheep shots at all my threads?

 

I laugh again. Scraping the very bottom of the internet to find a review of a book as a thread starter? You think that is helping the SOL PG become a better place? 

 

 

 

 

 

I take it you just don't get it how bad of a fail your thread is, do you? Just don't get it, probably never will. Fail. 

 

 

 

Fail, fail, fail. 

 

 

 

Falling face first on fail street. 

 

 

 

 

 

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I laugh again. Scraping the very bottom of the internet to find a review of a book as a thread starter? You think that is helping the SOL PG become a better place? 

 

 

I take it you just don't get it how bad of a fail your thread is, do you? Just don't get it, probably never will. Fail. 

 

Fail, fail, fail. 

 

Falling face first on fail street. 

 

 

 

 

Jeff, it's not my fault that mods constantly slap you on the wrist with warning after warning for stupid off topic posts.

 

It's not my fault that you can't contribute to a reasonable discussion.

 

It isn't my fault the Bill O'Rilley's book is garbage.

 

Why are you not defending the book? Why instead are once again showing your complete ignorance?

 

Come on Jeff.....think. You can do it.

 

Answer the question....Is this book accurate?

 

 

 

 

 

Jeff's answer - more insults and personal attacks, of course.

 

You see people, Jeff doesn't like me because I'm a Leeeeeb.

 

 

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Just to be precise, the book was written by "Bill O'Reilly and Martin Dugard". I don't think the Bill O'Reilly gets all the praise or blame for the contents. We know listing his name as author popularizes the book [a.k.a., sells more copies, to be honest, which is certainly not a crime]. No doubt he read the manuscript, no doubt he agreed with it and did not notice any errors, but the details were no doubt left to others. Not an excuse, just a fact.

 

Every serious author has a good editor, perhaps several, from their publisher and often researchers and fact checkers. He's not alone. There were rumors that John Kennedy did not write "Profiles in Coursage" even though there are tapes in the Kennedy Library of him dictating the chapters, but there was such substantial involvement by his support team that one scholar called it a "committee" product. That does not mean he was not the person with the original idea and final control of content.

 

I say this by way of saying that O'Reilly may have cut some corners that now have been caught. Do they matter? Yes and no. In a transcript of an interview on the NPR web site, he mentions three handwritten copies of the Gettysburg adress, when there are actually five. I lose no sleep over that oral error even if someone repeats it because Bill said it because a single misstatement is inconsequential. But when enough such errors accumulate that can be documented, I worry about how closely each additional "fact" must be fact-checked before being repeated. I hope he learned that a book is like any other product -- if it is sloppy in construction then it shows poor workmanship and discourages buyers. Even Steve Jobs had to make a Lisa computer or a Newton before he could build an iPhone.

 

 

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Jeff, it's not my fault that mods constantly slap you on the wrist with warning after warning for stupid off topic posts.

It's not my fault that you can't contribute to a reasonable discussion.

It isn't my fault the Bill O'Rilley's book is garbage.

Why are you not defending the book? Why instead are once again showing your complete ignorance?

Come on Jeff.....think. You can do it.

Answer the question....Is this book accurate?

Jeff's answer - more insults and personal attacks, of course.

You see people, Jeff doesn't like me because I'm a Leeeeeb.

 

But is it 'Inaccurate'? Or are you taking the word of Mr.SBrizek. Did you even read it? Or again, just taking the word of Mr. SBrizek........More 'I think, I Feel, I believe????..........:beers:

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But is it 'Inaccurate'? Or are you taking the word of Mr.SBrizek. Did you even read it? Or again, just taking the word of Mr. SBrizek........More 'I think, I Feel, I believe????..........:beers:

 

Did you read it? Did you even look at the critical reviews? I read it. It's a good read, it's just factually inaccurate.

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