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midwestexile

Who should fix the Hatteras Island Breach

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http://www.stripersonline.com/t/815328/hatteras-island-breach

 

Clearly government is responsible for immediate life-safety issues with regard to storms. But I pose it to the PG forum, how would you divide personal, local, state and federal responsibility (or dollar contributions if you prefer) to undoing the mess created by the last storm?

 

Let me throw out a couple of points on the spectrum.

1. Your property, your risk. I don't care if you own the land -- if the sea wants it back you will not keep it. I don't care if you got a building permit, that act of the locality/state doesn't relieve you of responsibility for knowing that the sea could come in and puts them under no obligation to rebuild your lot, much less your house. If you did not have insurance, good luck to you. [Again, not the same issue where life-safety is in jeoparty, although I feel little remorse for someone who wants to "ride out the storm and party" and then find out that was a critical mistake.] Call this the personal responsibility, small government extreme.

 

2. There once was a road there, you must put it back. People built all down the island based on the assistance and tacit approval of the government to put in the road. If that becomes too expensive, fine, but then the government (some levelo) is responsible for compensating the owners for the "taking" of their property by rendering it useless. It still might be cheaper in the long run. And yes, I have fished and camped down there so I know how cool it is, and yes, I have great sympathy for someone whose parents grew up there, but we can't stop volcanos in Hawai'i or the hurricaines of the Atlantic from changing the land. I saw "flood plains" along the Mississippi in 1993 where rebuilding was nixed because they had been rebuilt at government expense too many times. I saw levees breached by the corps of engineers this year to save other property of greater value. Government does make such calls when it cannot save everyone's property. Call this the "too late to put big government totally back in the bottle" middle.

 

3. Those poor people. It was a terrible tragedy and we should put everything back as it was for them, no matter what the cost. Or at least the public infrastructure. "I'm from the government and I'm here to do whatever I want and tell you I'm helping."

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actually its a shame you have to ask.  one big propblem with overreaching overbearing "we'll take care of you" giant webs of government is that there IS NO deal.  What if the homeowners and or taxpayers had an actual DEAL with the city?  If we pay X, then you have to do/perform/fix Y.  But alas no.



 



I will never drive 5 feet on that road, i owe nothing.  Same as the vast majority of the inhabitants of the earth.



 



 



Stuff like this can be averted.  Just decide before today what the town will do.


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You know, When you rent a home down there, there are taxes. I don't know what that money goes to but you have to wonder why they don't go towards a fund for just such an occasion..... That's the only fair way to handle it if you ask me. I know a lot of people hate the idea of taxes but in this case you are taxing the people who are going to use that road and not the other 99% of people in the country......

 

John

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If you ask the people of Dare county, they will tell you the government will spend and has spent far more money on damage repair of interior locations, like Charlotte than they have ever spent in Dare County.

 

Although it looks as if Dare county is a hurricane magnet, the facts prove that is the opposite. After Irene, there was more water in Manteo than anyone has see that is alive today.

 

I say fix it, the rest of the US vacations in Dare County.

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Most not all owners carry no insurance because its so old and passed down thru the family they have no mortgage and are not required to have flood insurance or cant afford it

or they are wealthy with no mortgage and can afford it but wont buy and roll the dice then Wait with their hands open looking for federal disaster aid ...

 

If you build a house at sea level 10 ft from the high tide line i strongly feel you own it and the feds shouldn't give you a dime you rolled the dice and lost

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Quote:

Originally Posted by nipsip View Post

 

If you ask the people of Dare county, they will tell you the government will spend and has spent far more money on damage repair of interior locations, like Charlotte than they have ever spent in Dare County.

 

Although it looks as if Dare county is a hurricane magnet, the facts prove that is the opposite. After Irene, there was more water in Manteo than anyone has see that is alive today.

 

I say fix it, the rest of the US vacations in Dare County.

 

Actually just Northeast Corridor Yankees.

 

 

 

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You know, When you rent a home down there, there are taxes. I don't know what that money goes to but you have to wonder why they don't go towards a fund for just such an occasion..... That's the only fair way to handle it if you ask me. I know a lot of people hate the idea of taxes but in this case you are taxing the people who are going to use that road and not the other 99% of people in the country......

 

John

 

Spaniard,

 

I can't speak for everyone but very few hate the idea of taxes. What we hate is the idea of inefficiency, corruption, huge/overbearing government, etc., etc. Government is necessary but how much government and what are its proper roles is the question. If I lived there, I would expect to pay taxes for events like that. Goes with the territory. That is "good taxes". Paying for the mayor's brother in law (the police chief, say) to buy 10 Hummers for the town's police force, not so much.

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As long as the government wants to collect the tax revenue those houses, businesses, stores, and shops bring in, the government will rebuild the road.

One thing all those folks from up North that vacation bring South, is their wallets.

I've never known a local politician yet that will turn down tax opportunities from folks that do not have a vote there.

 

I've vacationed there twice this year, and brought relatives from across the country to the Banks once.

It is truly an impressive place, and if easy access is lost, a lot more is lost than some tax revenue.

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I say fix it, the rest of the US vacations in Dare County.
Um I don't know anyone who has vacationed in dare county. But, I have a tree in my yard that was knocked down by Irene. I demand a bailout!

 

 

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Very good points on reserves -- there are higher taxes to pay for snow-removal in Vermont that NC probably won't collect, but that doesn't mean NC don't know storms are coming someday or that Vermont doesn't guess wrong some years. As for reserves, you could assume that the state is in some sense the "reserve" for the county, and the feds are the "reserve" for the state -- if government actually put rainy-day money away. In fact, you can live without auto insurance if you could satisfy the state that you have the resources to pay claims against you, and continue to use the money for your own purposes, but woe to you if you don't come up with the money. [This is starting to sound like a comment on disaster relief funding from DC, but it is not -- we've always had the rich uncle to pay off when we got in a bind and perhaps he's not so rich any more, but that's another debate.]

 

We opened a trunk from relatives living around the turn of the century and found out how "mutual insurance" for farmers worked then. If member Bob's shed burned, all the members got a bill for their share, say $2. If you did not send in your share, you were out of the system. If you did stay a member in good standing then when your shed burned everyone would send you their fair share. No premium but periodic bills. Now there is a centralized bureaucracy to collect the money for premiums in advance (with overhead) and distribute it. In some ways government is like that, collecting to fix roads rather than all the members of a town or subdivision getting an assessment when the street or sidewalk needs fixing. I've lived in towns with both systems, and it is less painful to pay regular smaller taxes, plus you end up paying more overall than one bigger bill at irregular intervals, but who has the money just sitting around?

 

I would be interested if I lived in NC and paid taxes in what percentage of these homes are "private year-round" residences, and how many are time-share or rental? Those rentals are businesses, after all, and they bring in tourist money but also put more strain on some resources (traffic, etc.) and less on others (schools, etc.). It seems to be that a "flat tax" is not as fair as a "user fee" system based on how many resources you use but it sure would be hard to administer.

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Actually just Northeast Corridor Yankees.

 

 

been there a couple of times

 

very nice

 

but i was one of the only vehicles there with mass plates

 

lots of folks from PA

 

hardly any from new york

 

try again

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150 years after the Civil War still nursing the grudge...hell the south continues to make out on fed tax dollars from the productive class in the northeast corridor...too funny. :shock:

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You guys need to brush up on your history. Hatteras Island fought with the Union in the Civil War. The island families were mostly ship wreck survivors and their decendants. There are still a few reflections of the Cockney accents and phrases that were commonplace on Hatteras 50 years ago.

 

The way I look at it the government has taken much more then it has given regarding Hatteras. It has taken the ability of many fishermen to make a living. It has taken most of the land under the guise of being a national park ---- and is doing it's very best to turn it into a bird santuary. If the road is not rebuilt the island will become one of those exclusive places accessible only by ferry or chopper. It will attract the rich and famous, and maybe even politicians. If that becomes the case it will not be worth saving --- it would stink worse than it does now from the Irene floods.

 

Hatteras Island folks are reslient and resourceful. They are also fiercely independent --- the type that so many American's who can't find their butts with both hands really don't like. if we don't care to rebuild their roads they will be fine --- but if that is the case why should we bother rebuilding your road or bridge? Should Hatterasmen and their families be treated differently because they choose to live away from the poison of populated areas that are safe from strorms? How about tornado victims? Earthquake victims? The hell with it, why should we help anybody?

 

We do it because that is what Americans do. If we stopped pouring our money down the sink holes created by our legislators we could give everybody on Hatteras their own helicopters and the lessons to fly them. Yes -- I'm a property owner on Hatteras and have known since building 23 years ago that to put a home on a spit of sand 30 miles out at sea is risky. In the environment that has been created in this country since we built our home the viability of that investment has actually improved as our dollar and retirement investments are spiralling down the toilet.

 

Perhaps some of you believe that a new road to Hatteras Island is not as good an investment in out infrastructure as a high speed rail line, with no riders. I just happen to disagree.

 

Cheers,

 

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