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Proposed change to striped bass plan draws attention. By John Geiser APP

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feetinsand

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Ditch,

 

I'm not sure what you think we fell for but if it is the "data" - hardly. When Jim or myself jumped in and tried to put a stop to the 'stock collapse' and pointed out that there are many things to be considered we were ridiculed. We have been sitting on a lot of information for quite some time now, trying to avoid dribbling out select data and we were confident of what was coming down the pike.

 

Insults and mudslinging? If it is done with a velvet touch or through plain language, what is the difference? That you go for smooth talkers? End result is the same.

 

I certainly hope that you are not taking a jab at me because I work full-time now at this John. Want to compare the salaries of our state reps and full time staff to the state and national execs of CCA? How about perks? Junkets?

 

Not a membership drive? I have been on your "adhoc committee" email list a lot longer than you realize. This is right from your email of 8/15/01

 

...and the fall shows as well--this can be a big conversation starter with non-CCA members.

 

So much for an unbiased 'adhoc' committee.

 

You guys really want to build a coast wide consensus? Invite members of all groups from all states. Prove that you really want to work with everyone. BTW, does CCA national approve of this committee? How about CCAMD and CCAVA?

 

I just got back from meeting with another member of the technical committee and I will be meeting with more soon. You want to play these games? Try to politicize the statements of the tech committee? After talking with almost all members of the tech committee, you find that you can ask a leading question if you want, but there is usually a "yeh, but" attached. Thus, I avoid that crap. Ask for solid answers on all questions and that is what you get, to the best of their ability and what they have for information. Too bad I have zero time for these games. I could bury you in selective quotes. Trying to lend yourself credence by dropping names? Give it up. I can play the same way.

 

The numbers will be published within the next two weeks. You were not trying to detract from them by mentioning that they were not published yet, are you? Note that I said tenative, not final. Nor did I rush them out the same day they were discussed, unlike others.

 

Dio,

What is 'natural age structure'? Post a chart showing the natural mortality on any year class. I think they will be surprised.

 

Yet again you bring up attempts to open the EEZ, despite the fact that-

 

1) RFA explored the possibility of getting the EEZ re-opened for recreational only and decided not to support it.

 

2) C-Fish told you the same thing months ago. Yet, you bring it up again. Is your memory fading or only convenient?

 

You attack Jim personally, carefully worded, everything nice and legal. You call Fote "In favor of big kills". I attack you personally because you have been, imho, reckless and disingenuous in how you present information to people. I attack you because I find your attitude about the common man sickening.

 

Your refusal to get involved in the menhaden fight ticks me off to no end. You have members in NJ, this issue effects you. Where were you? Not enough glory for the CCA?

"CCANY does not play nice with others". Sound familiar?

 

I nor anyone else here relies on anyone opinion exclusively. The same way we have not been putting out selective data. It's irresponsible. Nice try. Post the numbers from Crecco's report on what mortality/creel limit will produce the maximum number of "trophy" fish. He also starts at age '10' as the qualification of trophy. Show everyone how low that number ends up at. No need to tell me who disagreed, to what degree and why. I was there. Nice try.

 

Be very careful here but give a yes or no answer. Are you saying that the work Crecco does as a scientist is suspect? He is the primary advocate for "high removal rates"? Why don't you say he is in favor of big kills? What stops you? You waste a lot less breath that way.

 

Silence construed as consent? You went on here for months with nobody saying anything. Did you call the people you attack and invite them to defend themselves?

 

I still want to know why you held back the new information. What is your excuse?

 

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.

 

Pennboy, regarding your last comments, not true. You are reading something I didnt say.

I sent Jim a PM on this, and I'm sure he has shown you. Reagrding all the details of the committee, you say you have all the emails, there were plenty, which months ago more than answer your questions you pose here.

 

 

[This message has been edited by JohnP (edited 08-21-2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by JohnP (edited 08-21-2001).]

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This thread has gone beyond information and is certainly not entertaining.

 

Take the personal conflicts to email or I'll lock it up.

'Do not tell fish stories where the people know you; but particularly, don't tell them where they know the fish.' Mark Twain

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Pennboy---I got no dog in this fight---I'm just calling them as I see them. And I don't think you've done yourself proud here---quite the opposite. The entire tenor of your posts here has been inflammatory and personally insulting to all of those who disagreed with you. Not just Charlie. It alienated me, and I'm sure it alienated other readers--in fact, I know first-hand that it has. It would tend to make one wonder whether, in a meeting with the managers, if you were there in some official RFA capacity, you would insult them and storm out in a huff were they not to see it your way. Temperance, diplomacy---the velvet glove of which you speak---are exactly what's needed when dealing with bureaucrats and managers.

 

There are times when firebrands are needed, and there are times when diplomacy is dictated. In order to get my support for you and your organization, you would have to demonstrate that you and your leadership were capable of both.

"…if catching fish is your only objective, you are either new to the game or too narrowly focused on measurable results.” - D. Stuver

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Let's show a little consistency here.

 

This morning, Plug sez,

 

Recreational" Fishing Alliance?????

Better "Consumptive Fishing Alliance".

 

Now he sez,

This thread has gone beyond information and is certainly not entertaining.

 

Take the personal conflicts to email or I'll lock it up.

 

 

 

Ok for you but not the rest?

 

Ditch,

Where is yor condemnation of the others?

 

Insults and insinuations (for months), mud slinging, selective data or ommitted information because it does not suit the personal/professionional agendas. Don't you think that this would count as an ethics violation? You think this reflects well on the CCA-ASMFC Committee chair and a board memeber of CCANY? Censure all and I will believe you do not have a dog in this fight.

 

I am not dealing with buearucrats and managers here. I get along with them perfectly well and make my points, thank you very much. What I am dealing with here is a bunch of partisans. Partisan fight, partisan tactics. There is a big difference.

 

In the interest of full-disclosure, what groups if any are you affiliated with?

 

 

 

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That's not personal Pennboy. That's a commentary on the management policies I hear that ORGANIZATION promoting.

'Do not tell fish stories where the people know you; but particularly, don't tell them where they know the fish.' Mark Twain

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Enough is enough already. This bickering is not the the heart of the matter and frankly has become quite childish. The matter here is the health of the striped bass stock and how we want to manage it for the future.

 

Pennboy, I believe your real name is Michael..pardon me if I am not correct. Lets talk about these numbers you have. Lets talk about the VPA, SSB, the current size and bag limits...and whether these current limits, including the harvest of 4 to 5 year old bass over time will reduce the number of fish that make it to older year classes, maintain the status quo or actually improve things. That is what is important..the health of the stock...not what this guy in the CCA says or that guy in the RFA says, etc, etc. By focusing on that we are actually losing sight of the real issue and doing a disservice to the members of each group and ourselves as a whole entity...because in fact all the members of these various organizations whether they like one another or not or whether they agree with each other positions are considered one user group. "United we stand, diveded we fall"..that saying has been used before throughout history....its hard to put forth to fisheries managers and politicians involved in management a strong sense of what direction recreational anglers would like management of bass, etc go if we present them with multiple, fractioned suggestions from within our group. This is something I've never understood of the CCA, RFA and JCAA...why not unite behind a common stance....all of the bickering is reminiscent of the warring Scottish clans of ancient history....if all three groups were to stand behind a common position, its quite possible this would influence managers and politicians to a greater degree. Enough of my rambling, back to the point....

 

If you want to discuss management issues with the new numbers and how this relates to Admendment 6, do it.....but if you want to continue to bicker, etc.,dont even bother as your doing nothing but putting yourself on the same level as those who slung mud against you and doing yourself and the RFA no great service.

 

There also one thing you need to remember when talking about partisans and the difference in discussing issues and dealing with managers/politicians and partisians. The first thing is that if were not for the paritisans "the mob, the common man, etc", there would be no RFA and no membership dues and no salary for you. The second thing is that partisians don't appriciate being talked down to, etc...cause they are intelligent and know the real deal from BS...when they've had their fill with BS, they generally have a tendancy to support someone else....just as voters put politicians in office and just as quickly vote them out of office, so does the health and happiness or unhappiness effect your organization...

 

Phil L

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Partisan fights, partisan tactics?

 

Is that us, the members of SOL?confused.gif We just want to catch fish...that's all. We want those fish so we have things to talk about. That's what this website is all about.

 

 

 

------------------

DC ><}}}}>

Berkeley Striper Club...Seaside, NJ

DaveC <0))))))))))))><

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