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Proposed change to striped bass plan draws attention. By John Geiser APP

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feetinsand

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pennboy--

 

As to Fote trying to get me tossed out of a meeting. ASA office, Alexandria, VA, April, 2000. Topic--highly migratories. I was an invited guest. Tom was diagonally across the room, speaking with Steven Sloan. They complained to the chair of the meeting, in a "whisper" loud enough for me to hear across the room, that I wasn't an ASA member and shouldn't be allowed to be at the meeting. My status as "guest" was then clarified. After the meeting, Tom and I had lunch across from each other, and spoke politely for the rest of the day.

 

Be careful with that rich guy from Connecticut stuff. One of the reasons I moved to LI long ago was that I couldn't afford a house in my home town. My blue-collar roots are as strong as yours--father had a furniture-repair business, mother a piecework typist--so that personal attack doesn't work so well either.

 

As to the 18" in the Hudson, our members support a 24" minimum, and we have provided that position in written testimony.

 

Am I the only one who can lead people to the truth. Certainly not. If I disappeared right now, a lot of people on this board would take up the fight right where I left it.

 

As far as the Baltimore meeting goes, the numbers were preliminary, and I'm waiting for hard figures. My understanding is that the '96 year class has appeared in catches, and that a lot of the increase in harvest that we're seeing on the coast can be attributed to catching fish even smaller than we had before--that there were particularly big increases in NJ and MD, and that 4 and 5 year old fish made up the biggest part of the increased kill. Thus, even more immature fish were removed from the population, fish that weren't even given the chance to spawn once, much less more than that.

 

Because F measures the removals from the population, F for 2000 will probably be lower than in 1999, because the small fish are more abundant, and thus the removals represent a smaller percentage of the overall population. (F=0.31 is about a 25% removal rate--2000 figures are expected to be somewhat below that).

 

As a result of more '96s appearing in the catch, the estimate of total population size increased. However, there are yet no good figures for the spawning stock biomass--not even the large fish, but those at least old enough to reproduce. (personal note--what will SSB look like in 2 or 3 years when the '96s that are killed earlier do not become a part of it?)

 

So no, I'm not hiding anything. I'm just looking for good info.

 

[This message has been edited by Diogenes (edited 08-20-2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by Diogenes (edited 08-20-2001).]

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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You know, ...if I was a comm. in NJ, I would start pushing to open the season for comms.

 

After all, what about the common man that can't fish( you know, no car...etc...)

 

Hey, he should be able to eat Striped Bass too!

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by CATCHnRELEASE (edited 08-20-2001).]

(*member formerly known as 'sevenxseventy01')

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PennBoy,

You seemed to be alot more concerned with the health of the fish instead of everybody getting their fair share. are you working for the RFA now or something??

 

I need to echo these sentiments. What do the common man and the elitists have to do with any of it? It's about the fish!

 

 

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I went back, in light of all this argument, and re-read the article. It seems to me that I took too much away from the article, and inferred to much with respect to the specific quotes. This article does not say what I initially interpreted it to say --- i.e., that anyone that supports a higher size or smaller possession limit is an elitist. It says that there are some people on the message boards that are elitist. I have had this impression myself.

 

All in all, the article is confusing and without the benefit of insight from this thread, and going back and studying the article and the quotes, I believe I got the wrong initial impression. Since I have no interest in these purely political battles between competing organizations at this time, I could care less how Jim answers my above post since my whole premise seems mistaken. While I am interested in knowing the RFA's ultimate position on Amendment 6 and the basis for that position - I am willing to wait and see what that position is without making any assumptions. It would seem to me that there are many ways to deal with improving the age/size distribution, and based on the information I have read, I do not necessarily believe that one is better than the other (though I certainly don't believe status quo is the answer). But then again, I don't have the same philosphy as a few that want to ban anyone from fishing with bait, on a party boat, etc., and I do consider anyone that would ban this type of angling to be an elitist.

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Vinny: thank you for clearing this up. I am done with the common man debate, you read it. As far as Amendment 6 is concerned,our staff is working on this every day and we will have a position when all the info is available. However, I can tell you now that status quo does not look supportable. Regards, Jim

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I told myself not to play on semantics, but here you go.

rec·re·a·tion (rkr-shn)

n.

Refreshment of one's mind or body after work through activity that amuses or stimulates; play.

Note the lack of "party boat, meat, clam drifting, common man, etc. in this definition. Contrary to popular opinion, head/party boats are not synomous with recreation (rec). They are commercial enterprises taking money to supply food. The food they are able to supply now with regard to bass is only profitable to these enterprises due to Amendment 5 and the slot limit. Are these the RECs that the RFA so righteously speaks for? When will the RFA realize that the slot only allows more young smaller fish to be killed in higher numbers before they have spawned while profiting comm. party boats owners? I anxiously await the RFAs recommendations for Amendment 6 in the upcoming weeks.

As for your comment to Catch and Release, RFA, I think a little civility needs to be shown in these public debates.

"Where is my mind?  Waaaaay out in the water see it swimming?"
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Aside from all of the firey rhetoric and personal insults which are never fun to read, here's what it boils down to for me:

 

1) From Diogenes:

For those interested, I can forward you a copy of the questionnaire we used to make sure we were acting according to our membership's will in NY, and a copy of the report that breaks it down by percentage of respondents.

 

That sounds good to me, it looks like these guys really care about what I want icon14.gif It's democracy in action, not elitism.

 

2) How does the RFA solicit the opinions of their members? I honestly don't know and can't find it on their web site. Can anyone tell me?

 

JoeA

 

PS

RE CnR: He gets the same civility he hs shown me

 

Jim-- Maybe so, but that "pompous" attitude will redirect donations to the CCA instead of the RFA. I don't understand why you treat people this way on this web site knowing that current & potential RFA dues pay your salary. You're just putting yourself in the hot seat

fire_bounce.gif

 

[This message has been edited by JoeA (edited 08-20-2001).]

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I'm goin' to take the same tack as Vinny on this one, and wait until the position papers on #6 are out. The pros and cons of Amend. 5 could be debated till everyone is blue. That's yesterday.......today and tomorrow are what count now.

 

------------------

PLEASE PICK UP YOUR TRASH! OX 'THEDITCH'

PLEASE, PICKUP YOUR TRASH! SOL#342
Quote:Originally Posted by fish'nmagicianI try to inject humor....I often fail.
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guys---i read the last 3 pages and all that is being said is good stuff--BUT!!! we better come up with a viable plan pretty soon or the bass could disappear much sooner than any of us could imagine!! if any one thinks i'm being alarmist just think and be honest. when is the last time you went to your favorite piece of water and caught bass?for me it was back in june--and i think alot of guys are in the same shoes! the doldrums? yes but ive always gone to plan B and still could catch bass pretty regular. there is no more plan B --at least for me---and i'm real worried!! i havent seen it this bad in at least 10 years!! find a plan, agree on it,act on it--ALL OF US--AS ONE!

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bido,

 

there is a case that some people would not be able to see a bass unless they went on a party boat. Some people dont develop the skill or have the lifestyle that allows them to be a sharp shooter.

 

A good bit of my life, the only bass fishing i got to do was on party boats. The Miss Take, and Freddy C, and a few others opened me up to a new world as we jigged bass n blues between Rockaway and Long Branch. It was fun.

 

But, what is interesting to note it was kinda RARE to catch a keeper. About 90% of the fish were shy (24-28 inches). But that didnt stop people from coming, and it didnt stop me from coming. When the reports were good the boat was packed.

 

So we had ACCESS to the fishery, and a chance at a keeper (probably a better chance than a surfcaster), but nobody I recall ever felt slighted because they couldn't take a fish home.

 

StriperJoe, its not all gloom n doom (but its not great either). The LI Spring run on the south shore was pretty bad, but there were some fish in the Western Sound, but numbers all down from prev years. Montauk in June and July was very good, we were thinking that fish did not set up in the inlets, just moved east. So the folks in Montauk did pretty good with some big fish. Now it sounds like there is life up in NE. Some people are doing ok, but many others are doing poorly.

 

[This message has been edited by JohnP (edited 08-20-2001).]

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Let me tell you that after reading all 3 pages I'm more confused than ever.

What is going on with all this elitist and common man language. It's insane.

First of all to me RFA, CCA or any other organizations are elitists in my book. Their members are sort of fishing-hard, know-more-about-fisheries-than-the-rest-of-the-public fishing elite. Now don't get me wrong I don't think there is anything wrong with it. Now from I have learned here leaders of this organizations consult their members to shape their policy, right? Well, it looks like elitist organizations paid for by elite members hate others having different opinions calling them elitists and are ready to fight for the common folk to enable him to catch and deep fry 4" bass because they have a right to put just a right size fish on the hot-dog bun.

Let me tell you I don't know much about fishing for stripers it's only my 4th season. Let me tell you It's not easy for me to catch legal fish here in NY and it's OK with me because I love fishing, not going to get fish for dinner. I'm more than happy to release baby stripers but when I think that they are fair game as soon as they cross the border because of the size and bag you fought for and have in NJ it makes me upck.gif

Even with ridiculous size limit in NJ I don't think there is anybody fishing for them because they're poor and hungry and entitled to even small baby striper to feed starving family. I mean are you insane? Why don't you fight for state donations to soup kitchens for homeless. They need your help much more than the guy who can afford rod and reel.

just $0.2 from your common man

 

[This message has been edited by Mike_Z (edited 08-20-2001).]

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