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Proposed change to striped bass plan draws attention. By John Geiser APP

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Jim D:

 

Am I reading the article and your quote correctly as saying that someone supports different size and possession limits than the established organizations they seek to exclude the "common man"? How so? Is there something I am missing? I generally stay out of these debates, but it seems I am missing something. Now, if a person was mandating plugs and flies only, no bait fishing, no party boat fishing for stripers, etc., I can see classifying them as "elitist." But setting a reasonable size or possession limit that applies to everyone (whether I disagree or agree with that particular limit) how is that elitist or excluding the common man??? Maybe the "common man" (and the elitist) cannot bring as many fish home over the course of a season, but under this scenario, doesn't everyone have equal access and opportunity?

 

I ask because I find the demagoguery in that article offensive (even though I do not generally involve myself in these quarrels and therefore, it is not my opinions that are being criticized). I also believe that the "common man" would find it insulting that someone else would think that he was so stupid that such transparent rhetoric would convince him that someone supporting a different size limit sought to exclude him from a fishery.

 

That does not mean that I have not read what can be properly characterized as "elitist" posts on this and many other boards. It's just that I am missing the connection between positions on size and possession limits and elitism. Isn't it elitist to believe that the common man can't catch a 36" fish or that he needs some sort of artificially low size limit to participate in the fishery?

 

I am truly interested in how the RFA (and JCCA) have reached the conclusion that anything that would result in fewer bass being taken and increasing the age and size distribution of the stock is properly characterized as "elitist." This is not meant to engage you in a lengthy debate or to criticize you. From what I have seen, you generally defend your positions strongly, but fairly. However, that article just reeks of propaganda at least in my opinion.

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Keep spelling my name right, Donofrio. You're giving me, and the cause I believe in, a lot more air time than I could get by myself.

 

And thanks for the CCA plug. Folks interested in a healthy, well-stratified bass population now know who to call. I wouldn't have posted that on my own, because I feel this forum is for posting ideas, not ads. But I'll take all the free publicity you can give us. (Please note, once again, that these posts are my PERSONAL OPINION, and not posted on behalf of CCA, the Babylon Tuna Club or any other organization in which I may be active. The fact that they are usually similar to CCA positions merely reflects the fact that I support an organization with goals I believe in.)

 

But get my argument right. I never said the tyro shouldn't be allowed to keep a bass. I said he (and anyone else on the coast) shouldn't be allowed to keep a 24" bass, but rather that success is something that generally should be earned. If the guy lucks into a 36"--or whatever the minimum size would be under an F=0.21 or 0.25 target--more power to him.

 

It is SPORTfishing, after all, not grocery shopping. There is a learning curve--that's part of what makes it fun. Making it too easy just cheapens any "win."

 

 

All--

 

Seeing that the issue was raised, and for those who care, I am on the CCA national board--one of close to two hundred people from every CCA state who vote on the positions that the national organization will take, after consultation with our state organizations, their boards, local chapters and membership, to make sure that it is the members' will--not merely a handful of top leadership's will--that is represented. That's how our bass position was derived. (For those interested, I can forward you a copy of the questionnaire we used to make sure we were acting according to our membership's will in NY, and a copy of the report that breaks it down by percentage of respondents. Just send me a private message with your E-mail.)

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Diogenes (edited 08-20-2001).]

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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JohnP: I wish the reporter would call him also.However, he was given the info and I can't put a gun to a reporters' head and have him call. What was said by WITEK was on the record and let the truth of the record speak for itself.If I was a new to the sport as a bass angler and knew this info I would be suspect of belonging to such an organization where my fishing time and skills are criteria for keeping a fish.

 

 

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Vinny hit the nail on the head. There is nothing elitist about a size limit that applies to ALL fishermen. If it means it takes more time, patience, skill, and luck to get a keeper. That aint elitism -- that's fishing.

 

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Ah, there we are, a bit of truth slips out.

 

Launch an atttack upon a competing organization by attacking one of it's active members' personal opinions.

 

Motives are made clear...

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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Charles A Witek III: you are so disingenuous. Now you are trying to wiggle out of what you said about regular common people who want to fish and keep a striper. This has nothing to do with Amendment 6. We have told everyone on this board that we will have a position when all the information is available.So stop telling lies. You should know that all the info is not available.

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It seems to me that there is a personal fued going on here. Stripe Bass are in trouble continue to keep 24inch fish or three fish a day and the "common man" you speak of will not have a chance in hell of catching a stripe bass and all your charter boat friends will be out of bussiness, tackle shops will go under and millions of dollars will be lost, If being able to see that long term result makes me an "Elitest"(i can't even spell the word)then so be it!

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"The RFA represents all rec fishermen not just your special group of "qualified" striper anglers.Some of you are as elitist as the PETA people."

 

I fish......there for I am! I catch......there for I am gratified! I do not sell my catch......there for I am a rec. You do not represent me.....there for you do not represent "all rec fishermen".

 

Elitist fisherman........hmmmmmm.......could be worse.......I could be an Elitist lobbyist. Opps couldn't.......was raised to be honest.....damn......I'm, so COMMON!

 

 

 

------------------

PLEASE PICK UP YOUR TRASH! OX 'THEDITCH'

PLEASE, PICKUP YOUR TRASH! SOL#342
Quote:Originally Posted by fish'nmagicianI try to inject humor....I often fail.
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Check your language usage, Charles.

 

Tom has no recollection of him trying to have you thrown out of a meeting. Call him yourself and discuss it with him.

 

I don't give a rat's behind if I strike you as a guy that cares or not. I grew up in the pine barrens. My stock is working class from Philly. Railroad workers, bakers, dreymen...my dad started as a lineman for the phone company. one of my brothers is a caprpenter and the other a "pole monkey" for Verizon. I am damn proud of them and they will out-fish you any day of the week....guaranteed.

 

The only reason I was given the opportunity to actively participate in fishing was because my grandfather (raising 5 kids in a 3 bedroom rowhouse in Philly) introduced my father to saltwater fishing through the dastardly party boats of Barnegate Light. I guess when they were feeling rich, they would rent a garvey (no motor, that was extra. The owner of the marina would tow you out to a spot. You had a cynder block for an anchor and you stayed there and fished until the end of the rental when they would come back out and tow you in again.) My father moved to CM soon before I was born so I would have the opportunity to fish whenever I wanted. (I think he is still confused by ny decision to live in big cities, First DC, now Philly).

 

 

I went to a state college on the GI Bill after 3 years as an air assault grunt. I have little tolerance for rich boys from Connecticut who want to fling mud. But if that is what you want to, you picked the right guy.

 

Lets not forget that Sir Charles is also the Chairman of the CCA ASMFC committee. If I were him, I would put a disclaimer on every statement:

 

"The views expressed here are strictly my own and in no way influence my thinking when I try to influence others or make decisions in my official capacities."

 

Sir Charles,

 

Are you really sure you want to identify with Diogenes?

 

Diogenes? The falsifier of coinage?

 

"His eccentricity and extreme antisocial behavior proved to be the downfall of Cynicism. The belief fell into disrepute soon after his passing. Within in time it had disappeared all together. All that is left of it in our modern world is the word 'cynic' which is used unfavorably to describe a person who is disposed to find fault with others, an unwitting imitator of the father of cynicism, Diogenes." (Fair use)

 

I have not had to think about Greek philosophers in a while but if my memory is correct, I'll choose to identify with Epicurus who described Diogenes as, "So arrogant that he thinks that only he is qualified to seek an honest man." Or something to that effect. Could have been Plato that said it too. Oh well. You get my point.

 

 

So you are the only one qualified to dispense the truth and keep people in the light, huh?

 

You seem to be upset with the terrible damage done to the fishery because of the NJ slot limit. Where have you been on the 18" minimum in the Hudson? What steps did you take to change it in the past? Where is your moral outrage and why are you not leading the charge now?

 

You mention NY and the Bay States as producer areas but you fail to mention the DE Bay states. That was not intentional, right? You would not attempt to mislead anybody O' seeker of truth and honesty, would you?

 

In the past, you have been quick to point out the proceedings of the Striper Tech. Com. Meetings. If I remember correctly, you were giving reports on the same day, often within hours of the meetings. There was a meeting two weeks ago in Baltimore. No report from you. Not a peep. Why not?

You would not be hiding anything would you?

 

I'm so glad you think I am an OK guy or whatever...rolleyes.gif

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Where's a deputy when you need one. Since I started this thread I'm beginning to feel like I being mugged in a dark alley in Trenton. The JCCA, RFA, and CCA all are "good" organizations that feel that they are doing what is best for the striped bass fishery. Put your egos and personalities aside men. This kind of banter is not helping your membership drive or our striped friends.

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Brian,

I was a member of the RFA for a few years before I got involved in the menhaden fight. I had volunteered to get more involved in the RFA before SDO even got started. I made it perfectly clear to all the organizers that I was being considered for a voluntary position with the RFA from the get-go of SDO. Even then, we were sure to invite ALL groups and ALL individuals to participate in SDO. The idea was it could, ans still should be, a place, so to speak, where the partisanship could be left behind on issues where we were all united. (Unfortunately some groups decided not to particpate formally.)

 

Lightening struck, and I now work full-time for the RFA. When the offer was made, (several weeks after the assembly vote)I informed all the organizers and nobody was uncomfortable with it. The organizers all agreed that the next big issue to go after was the Hudson gamefish/no sale bill. JPL will take the lead on that one.

 

Let's keep these issues straight. RFA has not released its updated position in regards to Amm6 yet. Our concern that those in postions of authority in CCA would hold such views is in my opinion, a valid concern.

 

Everyone can blast away at the RFA position on Amm6 when it is released if they disagree. Just wait til it is out before labeling it as anything is about all I can ask.

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Folks--

 

You may not believe it, but this exchange marks a turning point.

 

Over the past few months, it is clear that Donofrio and I aren't close friends (the rift began about four years ago, after I told him that he is not use CCA NY's name in RFA press releases without CCA NY's permission; particularly when he claimed that CCA NY supported an RFA position that the CCA NY board never even considered, much less took a stand on).

 

Over the past two years or so, he's called the President of the Babylon Tuna Club to whine about my position on Highly Migratory Species, the then-President of CCA NY to complain that I questioned his qualifications as a lobbyist (the issue of qualification--including education, past work experience, prior government service, etc.; conflict of interest; participation in the commercial fishery, perhaps exemplified by rec fish sales, etc., has been raised on other threads and never answered) and--a couple of weeks ago--representatives of CCA to complain about my posts on this board.

 

However, after that first incident in '97, he wouldn't say a word to my face.

 

Finally, he's grown a big enough pair of cojones to challenge me directly. Actually, I'm a little surprised.

 

Of course, he now claims he knows what I said better than I did--although he's hearing it second-hand, at best. Readers of this board know what I wrote--that I think striped bass are one of the great game fish of the coast, and that an angler should expect to "pay his dues" before bringing one home. That the fish is not suited to the party boat, etc. fishery as a meat fish "for the common man" because the population just can't sustain it and remain properly stratified. We'll lose the big fish, just as we're doing now.

 

But I don't hold it against him for misrepresenting my position.

 

Facts were never Donofrio's strong point.

 

He'd rather find a catchy line, ranting and raving about commercial excesses than getting down to brass tacks about overall harvest numbers. Since there are commercial excesses, the lines hit home, and it's nice to think that if we "get the other guy," we'll solve the problem.

 

Now he's found the "common man" line to discredit me, so we should expect him to use that for all it's worth.

 

Anything so he doesn't have to talk facts about the bass.

 

See, the Amendment 6 debate, the 24" debate, the 3-rd fish debate, and all the rest of it isn't about me. It isn't about Donofrio.

 

It's about the bass.

 

And in that arena, based on the facts that exist today, my position is a lot more supportable than his.

 

So he has to distract you with personal attacks.

 

Even if the bass suffer for it.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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