TimS Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 That being the case, the only rational response would be to allow fishing unabated 'cause the fish are going to be gone anyway. Nils, I love yah man, but that's some ignorant crap right there The fish aren't going to be gone anyway, not one bit of science would suggest that they will be gone because of this theory. It says they will struggle to reproduce successfully. How do you help them? You let more of them try to reproduce. If this oscillation causes X % additional mortality to the young, the responsible thing to do is allow more to spawn so the additional mortality has less of an effect. It's irresponsible and short sighted and frankly, kinda stupid to keep fishing them unabated when they are in decline. The "keep killing cause they'll be gone anyway" sounds like a commercial fishing mantra, let us hope that short sighted mentality doesn't get a voice anywhere TimS Show someone how to catch striped bass and they'll be ready to fish anywhere. Show someone where to go striped bass fishing and you'll have a desperate report chaser with loose lips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Brian Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 What a bunch of happy tap horse **** ! Stripers could spawn in dishwater. There are two major factors; enough energy and enough spawners. Energy comes from FAT. In nature fat is king. You want earlier, longer, healthy spawners, feed em fat (i.e. Herring family). You want spawning to occur at all, make sure there are enough of (whole age scale) spawners alive. Stop the rapacious killing of both. Problem solved. It's like a 4000 ft elephant is always in the room and nobody who has any power to do something about it ever notices it in spite of the millions of attempts to point it out. "You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end -- which you can never afford to loose -- with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they may be .." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nils S Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Tim - Sorry that I ruffled your feathers but that's not short sighted commercial whatever, it's rational resource utilization. If we know that reducing or eliminating fishing mortality will have some positive effect, then do it (I think that's what I wrote). If we know that reducing or eliminating fishing mortality won't have any beneficial effect, then why bother? What are we "saving" the fish for. Our choice is to have no fish in a given area while getting some benefit as they're going or to have no fish and to have had no benefit. We still end up with the same no fish. Bottom line again is that we don't know, and that we should - or we should at least be trying to know. In instances like this, when we don't know, the precautionary principle should apply, but at the same time we should be figuring out what's going on. Unfortunately the application of the precautionary principle is being increasingly accepted as the status quo in fisheries management, and that shouldn't be acceptable to any fisherman. BrotherBrian - They're not going to spawn in dishwater if it's too hot or too cold. It's not much more complicated than that (actually it's a lot more complicated, but the too hot/too cold thing still generally applies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesome John Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 this is what I think about this theory... Total.. The Horizon Calls.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantriumph Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Does anyone know whether there are places in striper spawning regions where fish are captured for artificial rearing of fry for release? It seems in the Pacific Northwest that this is common and successful. I wonder if it is happening or would work for stripers? ...This takes place in the Delaware river by a private company in Kent County that mixes wild eggs to produce the hybrid for the fish farm market.They release a percentage of wild striper fry back into the river every year also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcap60 Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Another interesting view. Thanks for sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly By Nite Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 ...This takes place in the Delaware river by a private company in Kent County that mixes wild eggs to produce the hybrid for the fish farm market.They release a percentage of wild striper fry back into the river every year also. I fish mostly in the Navesink and Shrewsbury Rivers where just like everywhere else everybody complains the fishing gets poorer and poorer every single year...i would have to agree that it is poor because the fish just aren't there anymore. I think it was 1979 or 80 the Navesink was stocked with 50,000 fingerling stripers, though they were a saltwater strain....it was stocked each year for a certain number of years...the rivers fished very well in the late 90's and i have no doubt it was because of those stocked fish...i don't believe all those fish just left the river system over the years, rather, many were caught and kept for the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Brian Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 BrotherBrian - They're not going to spawn in dishwater if it's too hot or too cold. It's not much more complicated than that (actually it's a lot more complicated, but the too hot/too cold thing still generally applies). I've lived on the East Coast my whole life. Been fishing since I was 6. Been to the county fair and around the block and I have seen stripers spawn in places where science says "NO WAY". I'm talking from Delaware to Maine and trust me there were some places where dishwater would have been a welcome change. I understand the science but I still have to call BS on this one. I understand factors and temperature is certainly one but there really IS a 4000 ft elephant "You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end -- which you can never afford to loose -- with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they may be .." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfmaster250 Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Yet another contributing factor, BUT NOT THE SMOKING GUN OR SOLE CAUSE !!! Myriad factors are at play - bunker reduction fishery, farm run off in Ch. bay, disease, recreational fishing, commercial fishing, by-catch in the bunker and herring trawling fisheries, etc., etc., etc.. Step one - Stop killing spawning aged fish so they can make as many young as possible. Enough said right there!! Bunker being netted to death ,Dead zone waters from plankton bloom ie: run off from fertilized zones! Over fishing from both parties!! Now the weather!! The thing is haven't we had warm winters from at least 06 -09 for the most part?? Whatever!! I still say most of it lack of food which is for most fish the Bunker. IMO fish are not spauning near as much just due to lack of food!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 We don't know what effect reducing or eliminating fishing mortality is going to have in the face of any major ocean oscillation decline. It could be that no matter how much fishing effort is reduced, the normal striped bass haunts will be barren of striped bass until the cycle swings back in the other direction and the so-called recovery will proceed at the same rate regardless. That being the case, the only rational response would be to allow fishing unabated 'cause the fish are going to be gone anyway. It could also be that a highly reduced resident population could be maintained and that resident population could hasten the recovery. In that case, reduce or stop fishing. The problem is that we don't know. The bigger problem is that I doubt anyone is particularly interested in looking for the answers. It's the same with habitat degradation. Want more stripers? Fish less, and totally ignore the impact of those 40 million people living in the Chesapeake watershed. But does fishing less make a difference, or is the environment in its crippled state producing as many fish as it can regardless of how many are caught? We don't know and the guys in control of the purse strings - who have built careers on managing fishermen and not on managing fish - don't appear to be real anxious to find out. The argument that we should manage fishermen because that's all we can manage doesn't make a lot of bottom line sense until/unless we know what the realative impact of fishing is. The Striped Bass moratorium gave us a very real insight into what the relative impact of not fishing for Stripers is. It is a well documented fact that Striper populations rebounded dramatically as a result of reduced fishing pressure.That experience the very best management tool that we have to work with. Unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mando Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Although the chesey and other local water's still aren't in the best shape, I think we have made strides to correct our way's. Like a few other's have mentioned, without an adequate food source it's not going to matter how clean the water is. Add that with competition from seals (outer cape), and the holding capacity is going to continually decline. If they banned pogey boat's from slaughtering all the bait, I'd bet we'd see better inshore fishing within the first year. And I'm also willing to bet that number's would go up tenfold if the ban was held for several years. A few of my buddies who fish stelwagon, said they've never seen striper's so piled up out there. Who the hell really know's whats going on? One things for sure; there certainly isn't an over-abundance of inshore bait.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurfGazer Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 This might or might not be related to the stripers. Well, I have listened to a radio program about a month ago regarding fish sizes ... can't remember the whole details but the theory was: If you catch fish and keep the big ones, and let the smaller fish go; after several generations (about 8), due to the human-imposed gene selection, the adult fish will become smaller. This theory was verified in the lab. Now I believe to cause this kind of impact, only massive fish is caught and selectively released or kept. The issue with adult fish becoming smaller is that usually, smaller fish (female) carries less eggs, and their off-springs are weaker and has less chances to survive in the wide, ultimately cause the fish population to decline. The radio program was not talking about striped bass, but it immediately stroke me and I thought about our fishing regulation: daily 2 fish, 28" and above!! So we are influencing the natural gene selection in the striped bass evolution process, and possibly in a very negative way! I believe many folks here don't like the idea of keeping large breekers, TimS has been one of those ... "God may I not come back as a bunker in my next life" - bido Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchman Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 What a bunch of happy tap horse **** ! Stripers could spawn in dishwater. There are two major factors; enough energy and enough spawners. Energy comes from FAT. In nature fat is king. You want earlier, longer, healthy spawners, feed em fat (i.e. Herring family). You want spawning to occur at all, make sure there are enough of (whole age scale) spawners alive. Stop the rapacious killing of both. Problem solved. It's like a 4000 ft elephant is always in the room and nobody who has any power to do something about it ever notices it in spite of the millions of attempts to point it out. Stripers might be able to spawn in dishwater, but it doesn't mean that you will get any baby stripers out of it! Water quality parameters including salinity, turbidity, flowrate, temperature, oxygen, etc. all play critical roles in the spawning success of all fish, not just stripers. Just because you have a lot of energenic spawners laying lots eggs, it doesn't mean anything if the water quality conditions won't allow the eggs to fertilize, and then develop into larvae, and then into fry, and then into fingerlings, etc. For anadromous fish like stripers and salmon that spawn in freshwater rivers, water quality factors are especially critical factor for spawning success. Water quality (or variability of ) in rivers is largely dependent on precipitation, and if this weather phenomenon affects precipitation then it certainly would have an effect on spawning success. Additionally, if there is a simliar relationship on the east coast between this weather phenomenon and our baitfish populations (herring or bunker), then bass would be susceptible to variations in prey availability. With all of that said, if you have a healthy predator (striper) population, then the population would most likely be able to recover within a few years. However, most would agree, as do I, that we don't seem to have a healthy striper population due to the overharvesting, lack of prey, disease (myco), and water quality. Could a shift in the weather cycle be the tipping point? Only time will tell.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeF Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Great discussion guys. Good to see ideas tossed around and folks genuinely interested. It is hard to argue that reduced fishing pressure on both striped bass and forage fish would be a bad thing, especially given the fact that mycobacteriosis continues to ravage the Chessy stock and that its true coastwide impact remains unknown. The one thing that we can all do, right now, is to change our own habits to lessen our own impact on the fishery. We can also take the initiative to speak out at fisheries meetings and hearings on legislation that will reduce the fishing pressure on both striped bass and forage fish and support organizations who can speak on our behalf to a larger audience. If we all just sit back and hope that someone else will do that for us, and neglect to change our own ways, we will be disappointed in the outcome. That's a given, in my humble opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchman Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Although the chesey and other local water's still aren't in the best shape, I think we have made strides to correct our way's. Like a few other's have mentioned, without an adequate food source it's not going to matter how clean the water is. Add that with competition from seals (outer cape), and the holding capacity is going to continually decline. If they banned pogey boat's from slaughtering all the bait, I'd bet we'd see better inshore fishing within the first year. And I'm also willing to bet that number's would go up tenfold if the ban was held for several years. A few of my buddies who fish stelwagon, said they've never seen striper's so piled up out there. Who the hell really know's whats going on? One things for sure; there certainly isn't an over-abundance of inshore bait.... There have been strides made to clean the the chessy, but it is still a big huge mess! Between the number of sewage plants in need of upgrades, over development/sprawl, and poor farming practices, the picture doesn't look good. It usually gets a failing grade from the Chesapeake Bay Foundation which hasn't really improved in years. I think seals are the least of the stripers problems. Seal populations will eventually follow stripers...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to register here in order to participate.
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now