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The Chevy Volt WAS a turd

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4 hours ago, makorider said:

1 in 5 electric vehicle owners in California switched back to gas because charging their cars is a hassle, new research shows

 

Dominick Reuter 

Apr 30, 2021, 12:41 PM

 

Roughly 20% of electric vehicle owners in California replaced their cars with gas ones, a new study shows.

The main reason drivers made the switch was the inconvenience of charging.

The findings suggest new challenges facing the growth of the nascent electric vehicle market.

See more stories on Insider's business page.

In roughly three minutes, you can fill the gas tank of a Ford Mustang and have enough range to go about 300 miles with its V8 engine.

But for the electric Mustang Mach-E, an hour plugged into a household outlet gave Bloomberg automotive analyst Kevin Tynan just three miles of range.

"Overnight, we're looking at 36 miles of range," he told Insider. "Before I gave it back to Ford, because I wanted to give it back full, I drove it to the office and plugged in at the charger we have there."

Standard home outlets generally put out about 120 volts of power at what electric vehicle aficionados call "Level 1" charging, while the high-powered specialty connections offer 240 volts of power and are known as "Level 2." By comparison, Tesla's "Superchargers," which can fully charge its cars in a little over an hour, offer 480 volts of direct current. 

That difference is night and day, according to a new study published in the journal Nature Energy by University of California Davis researchers Scott Hardman and Gil Tal that surveyed Californians who purchased an electric vehicle between 2012 and 2018. 

Roughly one in five plug-in electric vehicle (PEV) owners switched back to owning gas-powered cars, in large part because charging the batteries was a pain in the… trunk, the researchers found. 

Of those who switched, over 70% lacked access to Level 2 charging at home, and slightly fewer than that lacked Level 2 connections at their workplace.

"If you don't have a Level 2, it's almost impossible," said Tynan, who has tested a wide range of makes and models of PEVs over the years for his research.

Even with the faster charging, a Chevy Bolt he tested still needed nearly six hours to top its range back up to 300 miles from nearly empty — something that takes him just minutes at the pump with his family SUV.

Public charging stations may look like the electric version of the gas station, but nearly two-thirds of PEV drivers in the survey said they didn't use them. Exactly why they didn't use the public stalls was not specified.

EVs have come a long way in recent years in terms of range, safety, comfort, and tech features, but Hardman and Tal note that very little has changed in terms of how they are recharged.

The researchers warned that this trend could make it harder to achieve electric vehicle sales targets in California and other countries, and the growth of the market overall. 

"It should not be assumed that once a consumer purchases a PEV they will continue owning one," Hardman and Tal wrote. "What is clear is that this could slow PEV market growth and make reaching 100% PEV sales more difficult."

Fixing the charging issue will require more participation from automakers, who have yet to find a profitable way of producing electric cars. Even Tesla, easily the leader in the category, was only able to eke out a first-quarter profit by selling energy credits and bitcoin.

"For all those legacy automakers, that profit and loss piece does matter. And that's why you're getting this half effort on electrification," Tynan said.

 

It sounds like 1 in 5 electric vehicle owners are complete idiots for not knowing that you need to install a 240 volt charger at your house. 

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17 hours ago, MaxKatt said:

It's interesting that GM and Volvo have announced when they will be all electric.  

 

The electric Ford Mustang SUV is interesting too. 

 

 

It’s called politics. While consumers are still very much in love with the ICE, politicians across the world have decided that electric is the future, and are doing all they can to make that a reality with incentives, ICE bans/electric mandates, increased gas taxes....  So, some manufacturers have decided that the writing is on the walls, and they’re not going to continue to invest in a technology that governments are not going to allow them to sell. 
 

Im curious though. When politicians decide we must go all electric, what happens to all those city dwellers that don’t have private parking, and have to park on the street? How are they supposed to charge their car when they’re lucky to park in front of their own home a couple times a week? Even then, are we supposed to have sidewalks covered in extension cords? 

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13 hours ago, z-man said:

It sounds like 1 in 5 electric vehicle owners are complete idiots for not knowing that you need to install a 240 volt charger at your house. 

How does that work if you live in an apartment?

What does the wiring cost for your home?

In my area it will cost you several grand.

I can go a long way on $3k of gas in a subcompact gas vehicle.  

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5 mins ago, bassackward said:

 

Im curious though. When politicians decide we must go all electric, what happens to all those city dwellers that don’t have private parking, and have to park on the street? How are they supposed to charge their car when they’re lucky to park in front of their own home a couple times a week? Even then, are we supposed to have sidewalks covered in extension cords? 

Induction charging is cordless, charge your EV while you park.

 

Same principle as your cordless water kettle or cordless cell phone charger, not too futurist to be feasible for EVs. 

 

Extrapolated to main highways with embedded induction coils, charge while you drive.

 

The only real problems are reliability of power source, and faultless distribution regardless of prevailing weather.

 

Not seeing any viable solutions to those problems yet, there just isnt the technology even to fund, yet there is plenty of ignorant and hyperbolic BS from politicians and their sycophants though.

 

Good idea though, trouble is, its time is yet to come.

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12 mins ago, zybathegeek said:

Induction charging is cordless, charge your EV while you park.

 

Same principle as your cordless water kettle or cordless cell phone charger, not too futurist to be feasible for EVs. 

 

Extrapolated to main highways with embedded induction coils, charge while you drive.

 

The only real problems are reliability of power source, and faultless distribution regardless of prevailing weather.

 

Not seeing any viable solutions to those problems yet, there just isnt the technology even to fund, yet there is plenty of ignorant and hyperbolic BS from politicians and their sycophants though.

 

Good idea though, trouble is, its time is yet to come.

So, if I’m understanding correctly, you’d  still need to install the charging pad under the sidewalk/street in front of your house ($$$), and pray that you’re able park in front of your home to use it. 

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Just now, bassackward said:

So, if I’m understanding correctly, you’d  still need to install the charging pad under the sidewalk/street in front of your house ($$$), and pray that you’re able park in front of your home to use it. 

When the reliability of power source and distribution problems are solved, city streets will ultimately be wired, the suburbs will have domestic pads, charging stations everywhere else where in ground induction coils are not feasible.

 

 

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46 mins ago, bassackward said:

It’s called politics. While consumers are still very much in love with the ICE, politicians across the world have decided that electric is the future, and are doing all they can to make that a reality with incentives, ICE bans/electric mandates, increased gas taxes....  So, some manufacturers have decided that the writing is on the walls, and they’re not going to continue to invest in a technology that governments are not going to allow them to sell. 
 

Im curious though. When politicians decide we must go all electric, what happens to all those city dwellers that don’t have private parking, and have to park on the street? How are they supposed to charge their car when they’re lucky to park in front of their own home a couple times a week? Even then, are we supposed to have sidewalks covered in extension cords? 

 

It's a great question.  My quick answer is that perhaps Transportation Secretary Mike Butigieg will make sure Biden's infrastructure investment includes a provision for this.

 

What I do know is that that very valid concern isn't something that will derail the global shift to e-vehicles and more than the concern for "where will we get gas" stop internal combustion engine vehicles from supplanting horses.

 

I can tell you that as a board member at my last co-op, I advocated installation of 3 units even though only our Super had an e-vehicle.  I did this to be progressive and get out front of this.  I was voted down.  

 

Ultimately, my board was wrong, and I had to look out my window at the neighboring complex that was always slightly better than us...and who's units always command slightly higher prices...take the lead and install four charging stations.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Steve_in_PA said:

How does that work if you live in an apartment?

What does the wiring cost for your home?

In my area it will cost you several grand.

I can go a long way on $3k of gas in a subcompact gas vehicle.  

If you live in an apartment and don’t have a charging station then you don’t buy an electric car. 
Anyone that buys an electric car should figure the cost of installing a charger into the purchase. I assume the 1 in 5 idiots didn’t. 

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58 mins ago, zybathegeek said:

When the reliability of power source and distribution problems are solved, city streets will ultimately be wired, the suburbs will have domestic pads, charging stations everywhere else where in ground induction coils are not feasible.

 

 

In the meantime, inner cities will be up chits creek. Government will likely make ICE ownership cost prohibitive long before electric ownership is feasible in these areas. 

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3 mins ago, z-man said:

If you live in an apartment and don’t have a charging station then you don’t buy an electric car. 
Anyone that buys an electric car should figure the cost of installing a charger into the purchase. I assume the 1 in 5 idiots didn’t. 

I'm willing to agree at least 1 in 5 people who buy electric cars are idiots.

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Just now, bassackward said:

In the meantime, inner cities will be up chits creek. Government will likely make ICE ownership cost prohibitive long before electric ownership is feasible in these areas. 

 

If you're in an inner city...does everyone really need their own car?

 

I lived in Manhattan for 10 years.  No car.  Subway, cab, bus, Uber, Lyft, CitiBike, Amazon. 

 

Hardly "chits creek."

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4 mins ago, z-man said:

If you live in an apartment and don’t have a charging station then you don’t buy an electric car. 
Anyone that buys an electric car should figure the cost of installing a charger into the purchase. I assume the 1 in 5 idiots didn’t. 

 

I can't imagine that 1 in 5 is real.  I have to think early adopters paying a premium to own e-vehicles have also thought out the charging issues.  

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58 mins ago, MaxKatt said:

 

It's a great question.  My quick answer is that perhaps Transportation Secretary Mike Butigieg will make sure Biden's infrastructure investment includes a provision for this.

 

What I do know is that that very valid concern isn't something that will derail the global shift to e-vehicles and more than the concern for "where will we get gas" stop internal combustion engine vehicles from supplanting horses.

 

I can tell you that as a board member at my last co-op, I advocated installation of 3 units even though only our Super had an e-vehicle.  I did this to be progressive and get out front of this.  I was voted down.  

 

Ultimately, my board was wrong, and I had to look out my window at the neighboring complex that was always slightly better than us...and who's units always command slightly higher prices...take the lead and install four charging stations.  

 

 

So, the government will make taxpayers pay for infrastructure we don’t have money for, to support vehicles we don’t want. Awesome. 

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