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TFO 8wt Axiom question

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View PostThat's because you're underlining it. wink.gif

 

I honestly don't think so. If it were underlined (and I've done it as a experiment) it would, to me, feel like cr*p. Except for the TCR 8 wt, it's the sweetest casting 8 wt I've ever cast with an 8 wt line. It's fantastic for short 25 ft casts, great at medium distance 40-60 ft casts, and capable of booming out 105 ft cast with the same 8 wt line.

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View Postlets talk turkey.

 

on my scale:

 

8 weight z-axis: 112 grams

9 weight glx: 142 grams

8 weight axiom: 152 grams

 

even using published weights, the 8 wt axiom weighs more than the sage xi3 12 weight with a foregrip. i like the rod and am well aware there is more to this all than the weight of the rod. but calling it an 8 weight is a bit of a stretch wink.gif

 

Well let's try materials. The Axiom uses IM6 which for gram for gram is not as strong as GLX or the Z-Axis graphite so it has to be a heavier blank. You cannot tell me that you can judge the weight rating of a rod by it's physical weight...

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View PostMark Sedotti wrote

 

"The 8 Weight Axioms I've tried take 9 wt. lines, and are perhaps even light 10's"

 

What do you say?

 

Thanks

 

I disagree with Mark but that's for my casting. For him it works, for me a 9 wt or 10 wt line makes the Axiom feel like mush. You have to try for yourself and see what works.

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View PostThe weight of the rod has very little to do with the burl accents or the over-sized strippers. A 9' 4wt axiom blank weighs exactly the same as a 9' 9wt T&T horizon blank. The blanks are obscenely heavy for what they are.

 

The blanks are heavy, but I feel that just as much weight comes from the burl cork accents. From a brief bit of research online, it appears that burl cork weighs 2-4 times that of natural cork, with natural cork rings weighing in at a little under 2 grams, and burl between 4-8 g per ring. With 9 burl rings on the grip, all tapered but adding an estimated 2 grams per ring, that is 18 grams, or over half an ounce. This weight makes much less impact on the user than blank weight as it is "in the hand" and not further down the 9ft lever.

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View PostThe blanks are heavy, but I feel that just as much weight comes from the burl cork accents. From a brief bit of research online, it appears that burl cork weighs 2-4 times that of natural cork, with natural cork rings weighing in at a little under 2 grams, and burl between 4-8 g per ring. With 9 burl rings on the grip, all tapered but adding an estimated 2 grams per ring, that is 18 grams, or over half an ounce. This weight makes much less impact on the user than blank weight as it is "in the hand" and not further down the 9ft lever.

 

 

We're just going to have to agree to disagree. There's absolutely no reason for a 4wt blank to weigh over 2 ounces, nearly twice as much as comperable blanks from other manufacturers. You're talking grams, I'm talking ounces.

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View PostWe're just going to have to agree to disagree. There's absolutely no reason for a 4wt blank to weigh over 2 ounces, nearly twice as much as comperable blanks from other manufacturers. You're talking grams, I'm talking ounces.

 

but it's im6 wink.gif

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View Postbut it's im6 wink.gif

 

So are you trying to say that an im6 blank equal in strength to a glx or im8 or other higher modulus graphite should weigh the same? cwm27.gif

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View PostWell let's try materials. The Axiom uses IM6 which for gram for gram is not as strong as GLX or the Z-Axis graphite so it has to be a heavier blank. You cannot tell me that you can judge the weight rating of a rod by it's physical weight...

 

plenty of lower mod graphites still weigh less than this rod. hell, st croix's $130 rio santo uses scii (32 million mod) and their 8 wt weighs in at 4.4 ounces vs 5.5 for the axiom. using another comparison, winston's wt line uses im6 and their 5 weight comes in at 4 oz whilst the axiom 5 wt is a full ounce more.

 

i get that weight is not the way you measure a rod's rating, but looking around at other rods in similar categories, this rod is quite heavy by comparison. at the end of the day, the manufacturer slaps on the weight rating, not some independent labratory. i've already said i like the rod. for me, this is just simply not an 8 weight rod which i knew when i bought it. at the time i bought it, the 8 wt was the only one they had.

 

as a side, my first snake broke on this rod and i have to admit i was not too happy about having to spend $25 + my own cost to ship and insure in sending it to them to get it fixed. it was CLEARLY a manufacturing issue--it snapped in two and was never placed on the rod properly (it was twisted beneath the epoxy). still a fan of tfo (the first rod they ever made is my go to bass bug rod) but that did piss me off.

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View PostSo are you trying to say that an im6 blank equal in strength to a glx or im8 or other higher modulus graphite should weigh the same? cwm27.gif

 

see my answer above, but who is determining "equal strength" here headscratch.gif

 

bottom line this rod is heavy--even compared to other im6 (and lower) rods.

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View Post

 

as a side, my first snake broke on this rod and i have to admit i was not too happy about having to spend $25 + my own cost to ship and insure in sending it to them to get it fixed. it was CLEARLY a manufacturing issue--it snapped in two and was never placed on the rod properly (it was twisted beneath the epoxy). still a fan of tfo (the first rod they ever made is my go to bass bug rod) but that did piss me off.

 

Did you have to pay shipping back to the PRC?

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View Postat the end of the day, the manufacturer slaps on the weight rating, not some independent labratory.

 

I think this is a key point in all these discussions about "overlining" or "underlining" rods.

 

If there were some objective and independent way to rate rods, and all manufacturers adhered to it, then perhaps we could all agree that putting a 9 wt line on a rod labeled as "8 wt" is a case of "overlining", but since the point you make is true (and not all lines of a given weight are identical in mass), I think this whole issue of "overlining" or "underlining" a rod is not only overblown, but also far from black and white.

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View Postsee my answer above, but who is determining "equal strength" here headscratch.gif

 

bottom line this rod is heavy--even compared to other im6 (and lower) rods.

 

It isn't just the IM6, every manufacturer uses their own proprietary resins for the composite matrix and the resin is a major part of the weight and in some respects is more important than the graphite used. The Axiom also sandwiches Kevlar in the blank as well and that's going to add weight. I think if you research it, graphite itself hasn't seen major advances in the last few years, the big advances are in the resins. What is used in rods aren't high modulus, but really middle modulus - there have been much higher modulus graphite (carbon fiber) available for a long time now. The resins easily make some of the biggest differences in strength of the rod - the new Hardy line of rods with Sintrix (sp?) seem amazing (I liked them a lot when I fished them) and the main advance with them is the resin, not the carbon fiber.

 

You can compare lower rods but IMHO I doubt any of those low end rods have the lifting power of the TFO Axiom. I'm only speaking for myself and my own personal philosophy, but I gave up the race for lightweight rods a long time ago when I found that they simply do not have the fish fighting power I need. I won't do it, but I can name a few highly regarded rods, rods that people rave about on this site, that failed miserably in my testing for lifting power - my workshop is splintered with their remains. None of the rods that failed in my testing had the word TFO in them.

 

Personally I like the Axioms a lot. I think they cast great (they are the closest thing in feel to a Winston B2MX which I am a big fan of), I really don't feel the weight difference, and they have great lifting power. But realize too, I also fish TFO Bluewater rods and don't have an issue with their weight either. It's just my own personal philosophy where I value fish fighting strength more so than light weight and casting ability (I think most rods cast far, far better than the user at then blunt end of that rod that it becomes an issue of personal preference rather than any determination of what rods cast better than other rods).

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I went out with Joe Blados last weekend and he had an Axiom 8wt with a 10wt Airflo intermediate line. He prefers "overlining" for sight fishing. I cast it for a while and then put the same reel/line on my Xi2 9wt. They felt very similar to me. The Xi2 was slower and more forgiving, but felt a little "sloppy" after the Axiom. The Axiom was stiff but still had feel to it. I have a TiCR 4wt that feels like a broomstick even with a 5wt GPX which is really a 5.5wt line.

 

I really liked both rods. If I did not already have the Xi2 I would seriously consider getting two Axioms for what I payed for the Sage.

 

Wonder if the 6wt could throw an 8wt line?

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This is some excellent stuff.

 

Formula1 can you share some of your lifting power tests with us?

 

If it is already hereI apologize and will search it later when I have time.

 

I love this conversation.

 

Thanks again guys.

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Does anybody know how a rod manufacturer decides what label (for the "weight" of the rod) to slap on a rod? I have no idea.

 

And if anybody does know, are the methods similar across manufacturers?

 

I can imagine a few different ways they might do it, but I have no idea if any of these are how it's actually done. For example:

 

1. Can they calculate a rod weight based entirely on the material construction and rod taper, or other similar measurements, without ever actually handling the rod? In other words, can it be done simply from calculations?

 

2. Or, do they put it under some sort of physical tests - flexing it under a load, etc. Some similar, perhaps, to the Common Cents System?

 

3. Or do they just get some folks to cast it with a variety of lines, and then take a vote?

 

 

Any ideas? I'm very curious about this!

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