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Shock leader question....

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rosbertos

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I share these sentiments - the inherent problems associated with casting very heavy payloads using shock leaders (finger protection, drag slips, tangles, knot degradation) with spinning gear make it, at best, a sketchy undertaking - perhaps appropriate for a few very specific niche scenarios, but for most people in most places using conventional gear makes a whole hell of a lot more sense.

 

 

"sketchy"? "niche scenarios"? Stick to conventional advice, cuz ur out of the loop!wink.gif

 

Oh, and conventionals don't tangle??kooky.gif

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View PostNo, I was not here replying because it was the weekend and I wasn't at a computer. I was outside. Fishing.

 

I fished too, . . . 27 hrs straight.

 

As for the rest . . .

 

Weight and bait is not a "niche scenario" of surfcasting.

 

I didn't have the wonders of 10,000 experts offering their opinions when I learned how to use a shocker. I tried and learned and refined what I do to be able to achieve the very extreme of performance when needed. It didn't come overnight.

 

That people today expect to ask a question and garner instant competency with tactics and techniques is something that you gurus should recognize and avoid recommending the easy way out. I honestly can not think of a single reason why the OP (or anyone for that matter) should not learn how to use a shocker effectively. Would you want this guy fishing next to your family throwing 5oz and a chunk on 30lb Fireline? Do you really consider your posts HELPFUL?

 

You also need to recognize that for every specific answer you give to a specific poster's specific question about a specific situation it is being read by hundreds of lurkers who clicked on the thread because they were interested in reading the replies to a "Shock leader question...." and who just might apply your advise to their situation.

 

Now nobody knows those readers situations and what they are doing or why they are interested in reading the replies to a "Shock leader question...." but now they read 1dozen and your learned tag-team opinion that:

 

View PostIt is rarely a good idea to use a shock leader or any leader long enough to have the knot pas through any of the guides on a spinning set-up. I would never do it throwing what I throw...plugs, jigs and occasionally 3-4oz and bait. I use Fireline 30lb mostly.

 

View Post. . . I believe you misunderstood [1dozenraw], he is not suggesting that a shock leader be so short that it doesn't wrap around the spool - he's suggesting that using a shock leader on spinning gear to begin with isn't such a great idea.

 

I share these sentiments - the inherent problems associated with casting very heavy payloads using shock leaders (finger protection, drag slips, tangles, knot degradation) with spinning gear make it, at best, a sketchy undertaking - perhaps appropriate for a few very specific niche scenarios, but for most people in most places using conventional gear makes a whole hell of a lot more sense.

 

View PostYup...biggrin.gif

 

Believe me, they do not retain nuanced comments; it is the definitive ones that are taken away with them and that's why I disagreed with what you guys wrote.

 

So, what have lurkers learned about shockleaders on spinning tackle from the braintrust??

rarely a good idea

 

isn't such a great idea

 

a sketchy undertaking

 

conventional gear makes a whole hell of a lot more sense.

On their behalf I offer thanks for your help; I'm sure as soon as they all learn that spinners are for sissy's and finally graduate and take the surfcasting training wheels off and get a real fisherman's setup they will be right back here to get a pat on the head and garner another nugget of your mutual wisdom.

 

Let's just hope nobody gets hurt in the interim.

You can’t truly call yourself “peaceful” unless you are capable of great violence.  If you are incapable of violence, you are not peaceful, you are just harmless.

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I must say im amazed at some of these post.. Im mostly a weight and bait angler, and when I first started fishing the first thing I was told was learn how to tie a shock leader. Years have passed and my Gear has been upgraded (many of times.. smile.gif ) not to mention my casting has gotten 10x better, and the same rule holds true. Im not a physics expert but I think some of you guys would be surprised how much power\\energy is generated by an average cast by an average angler.

 

I use High End Spinners, and Conventals and I gotta say all of them get shockleaders expecially the spinners. Personally I think the spinners require a more violent cast, and needs the added safety measured. I use 15-30lb braid on my spinners, and I have recently decided to go up to 80lb shock leader, and that's for 6nbait fishing.. For me it's all about safety, and I would rather go overboard then explain to someone's wife how my 6oz sinker hit her husband in the head..frown.gif

 

In my opinion, i read a lot of post about all of you guys who can cast 120-150 yardsbiggrin.gif .. If that's really the case you REALLY need a leader, and if you dont have one you're gambling with someone life...

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View PostI fished too, . . . 27 hrs straight.

 

As for the rest . . .

 

Weight and bait is not a "niche scenario" of surfcasting.

 

I didn't have the wonders of 10,000 experts offering their opinions when I learned how to use a shocker. I tried and learned and refined what I do to be able to achieve the very extreme of performance when needed. It didn't come overnight.

 

That people today expect to ask a question and garner instant competency with tactics and techniques is something that you gurus should recognize and avoid recommending the easy way out. I honestly can not think of a single reason why the OP (or anyone for that matter) should not learn how to use a shocker effectively. Would you want this guy fishing next to your family throwing 5oz and a chunk on 30lb Fireline? Do you really consider your posts HELPFUL?

 

You also need to recognize that for every specific answer you give to a specific poster's specific question about a specific situation it is being read by hundreds of lurkers who clicked on the thread because they were interested in reading the replies to a "Shock leader question...." and who just might apply your advise to their situation.

 

Now nobody knows those readers situations and what they are doing or why they are interested in reading the replies to a "Shock leader question...." but now they read 1dozen and your learned tag-team opinion that:

 

Believe me, they do not retain nuanced comments; it is the definitive ones that are taken away with them and that's why I disagreed with what you guys wrote.

 

 

So, what have lurkers learned about shockleaders on spinning tackle from the braintrust??

rarely a good idea

 

 

isn't such a great idea

 

 

a sketchy undertaking

 

 

conventional gear makes a whole hell of a lot more sense.

On their behalf I offer thanks for your help; I'm sure as soon as they all learn that spinners are for sissy's and finally graduate and take the surfcasting training wheels off and get a real fisherman's setup they will be right back here to get a pat on the head and garner another nugget of your mutual wisdom.

 

Let's just hope nobody gets hurt in the interim.

 

 

Even though I agree with you on the need for shockleaders, I have to question why you go on every forum and insult people who dont have the same views as you. From cheer leaders to internet blow hards. Are you that insecure with yourself? Did your mom not hug you enough as a child? What is it Rod? Did someone tell you this year that Santa Clause is not real? If you are Rod's friend, go give him a hug. He needs it.

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View PostBobby, I believe you misunderstood him, he is not suggesting that a shock leader be so short that it doesn't wrap around the spool - he's suggesting that using a shock leader on spinning gear to begin with isn't such a great idea.

 

I share these sentiments - the inherent problems associated with casting very heavy payloads using shock leaders (finger protection, drag slips, tangles, knot degradation) with spinning gear make it, at best, a sketchy undertaking - perhaps appropriate for a few very specific niche scenarios, but for most people in most places using conventional gear makes a whole hell of a lot more sense.

 

 

 

EB, your right I did misunderstand him. I keyed on the word "shock leader". What he is talking is just a leader. A shock leader is meant to take stress off of your main line and not break it. Sending your lead through the persons skull down the beach! You don't have to be casting heavy lead, 4oz. is increased with the pendulum cast that it could weigh as much as 7-8 ozs. when it comes around! That Pendulum is one powerful cast!!

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View PostYou also need to recognize that for every specific answer you give to a specific poster's specific question about a specific situation it is being read by hundreds of lurkers who clicked on the thread because they were interested in reading the replies to a "Shock leader question...." and who just might apply your advise to their situation.

 

I'm well aware of that fact, but I'm still going to reply to the specific question at hand - in this case it was from someone who already indicated he doesn't wish to use a shock leader, has been forgoing one, presumably without issue, while using 65# braid as a running line, and now wants to know if 30# fireline's actual breaking strength will allow him to continue to avoid using a shock leader. Since he's been getting away with not using a shock leader on 65# braid, 30# fireline breaks at a comparable level, he never indicated he was throwing heavy loads, and the fact that his baitrunner's drag tops out at 15#, which tells me if it isn't slipping on the cast he's either not throwing much weight or not power casting, my answer opinion, my advice to him is that he probably doesn't need a shock leader.

 

View PostSo, what have lurkers learned about shockleaders on spinning tackle from the braintrust??

rarely a good idea

 

isn't such a great idea

 

a sketchy undertaking

 

conventional gear makes a whole hell of a lot more sense.

 

And that is our opinion, which we are fully entitled to. I have no idea why you insist on disparaging it, instead of offering your alternative opinion and leaving it at that without taking it personally. If you disagree with someone's take on something present your side of it, but there's no need to talk down to anyone because of a difference of opinion. Honestly Sarge, as I said before, I like you, I appreciate and respect your posts and opinions, so regardless of whether you adamantly disagree with mine or not, I ask that you show me the same respect.

I've done stuff I ain't proud of, and the stuff I am proud of is disgusting.

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I have to come out of the peanut gallery and echo EBHarvey. The tone of your replies Sarge has suprised me. I usually find you to be a generous person with an open mind. But hey, sometimes I have bad days that affect my attitude too! It's easy to back off the drag and give some slack in the chance you have misjudged the fishes wink.gif - HPD

 

PS - When plugging with up to four-ounces using 50# braid I never use a wrap around the spool leader (spinning). This includes with high inertia casts and 13' rods. I have never cracked off but 'ya better be sure of your knots.

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View PostIt is rarely a good idea to use a shock leader or any leader long enough to have the knot pas through any of the guides on a spinning set-up. .

 

I think this sentence is unfortunate. A 10 or 15 foot heavy mono/fluoro leader is most certainly a "good idea" when hunting large bass amongst large rocks.

 

Likewise, a swivel can be a problem (I think) in clear water/bright nights or in fire.

 

 

I am glad Sarge spoke up against this. There are many different fishing conditions and for some, casting a knot through your guides is a better idea than trusting a 3-4 foot leader.

 

 

More info on how to do this better with spinning tackle would help me.

 

I had tried a uni-uni (I find the albright too bulky) connection with the knot part way out the guides. Works with fireline, but had 40# samauri braid cut through the leader and cost me a fish and mojo plug 2 nights ago.

 

 

Is anybody using spliced connections? What about these Sebiele knots?

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View Post

 

PS - When plugging with up to four-ounces using 50# braid I never use a wrap around the spool leader (spinning). This includes with high inertia casts and 13' rods. I have never cracked off but 'ya better be sure of your knots.

 

Yup...clapping.gif And for heavier stuff I switch to conventional and use a shock leader... usually 50lb mono, a few wraps around the spool.... Cortland Master Braid or Fireline under. Just how this Blowhard Guru rolls.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts" Jack Johnson.

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Wow, what spin masters here; someone calls u on your claims, and rather than refute it you whine about being offended.

 

Your opinions on spinners are speculations; you obviously don't know about spinners and shock leaders. And i can tell that you're out of your league trying to debate reelinrod about this issue. but, really, there was no debate, as you haven't responded to the points in the issue.

 

Could you possibly be wrong??headscratch.gif

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View PostWell EB, at least we have advanced from blowhards to gurus.highfive.gifclapping.gifclapping.giftongue.gif.

 

 

I find it interesting that you are accepting the mantle of Ditch Jigger's most excellent contribution to this thread clapping.gif!

 

View PostI have to question why you go on every forum and insult people who dont have the same views as you.

 

 

I have a quota to fill. I am non-judgmental and selflessly helpful in 87.4% of my posts. You must have bad timing.

 

View PostFrom cheer leaders to internet blow hards.

 

 

I can accept your accolades for "cheerleaders" but I must respectfully decline and place the honor for "internet blowhards" where it belongs, with the venerable Ditch Jigger.

 

I only clarified the characterization as I see it, I don't own it . . .

 

View PostAre you that insecure with yourself?

 

 

Why would you think that my assertiveness in calling out what I truly, deeply believe to be incredibly unsound if not dangerously bad advice is evidence of insecurity?

 

Wouldn't the opposite be true cwm15.gif ?

 

View PostDid your mom not hug you enough as a child? What is it Rod? Did someone tell you this year that Santa Clause is not real? If you are Rod's friend, go give him a hug. He needs it.

 

 

You are creepy.

 

View PostI'm well aware of that fact, but I'm still going to reply to the specific question at hand - in this case it was from someone who already indicated he doesn't wish to use a shock leader, has been forgoing one, presumably without issue, while using 65# braid as a running line, and now wants to know if 30# fireline's actual breaking strength will allow him to continue to avoid using a shock leader. Since he's been getting away with not using a shock leader on 65# braid, 30# fireline breaks at a comparable level, he never indicated he was throwing heavy loads, and the fact that his baitrunner's drag tops out at 15#, which tells me if it isn't slipping on the cast he's either not throwing much weight or not power casting, my answer opinion, my advice to him is that he probably doesn't need a shock leader.

 

 

And that is an excellent answer tailored to precisely address the specific needs of the OP that, with its caveats, can not reasonably be extended to speak to all uses of spinning tackle throwing a sinker and bait. Too bad your early contributions were just endorsements of 1dozenraw's ill-advised general, -applies to all- statements about shockers and spinners.

 

View PostAnd that is our opinion, which we are fully entitled to. I have no idea why you insist on disparaging it, instead of offering your alternative opinion and leaving it at that without taking it personally.

 

 

I disparage it because they are presented as general rules for spinning tackle. I disparage them because they say that something used for safety can be sacrificed because one might experience some problems with the execution.

 

Does reasoning extend to eyewear? Since safety glasses fog up and slip down your nose and have other inherent problems and you have never gotten a chunk of concrete in your eye, is bothering with safety glasses when using an edger or weedwacker just foolishness?

You can’t truly call yourself “peaceful” unless you are capable of great violence.  If you are incapable of violence, you are not peaceful, you are just harmless.

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View PostI find it interesting that you are accepting the mantle of Ditch Jigger's most excellent contribution to this thread clapping.gif!

 

You mean I'm not an internet blowhard or a guru????waaah.gifI guess I'll just have to try harder.frown.gif

 

And now a message from the moderator of the Rodbuilding Forum...

 

http://www.stripersonline.com/surfta...d.php?t=734676

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts" Jack Johnson.

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