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age old debate... shimano spinners...

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So my beautiful wife got me a sweet b-day present, and avid inshore ais76mf rod that i'm planning to use for bass, albies, bones etc. I'm pretty sure i want a 4000 sized shimano spinner. I'm stuck between a stradic, sustain, or saragosa 4000. I have a stradic 5000 on another reel, and a huge saragosa for heavy duty. love them both. anyone have some thoughts/experiences on these reels in the 4000 size class. are the sustain/saragosa worth more in this size? how do the sara and sustain compare?

 

before anyone mentions it, i like the spheros (have an 8000fb) too but really prefer the higher gear ratio of the sustain/stradic/saragosa for this type of fishing. thanks for the feedback. DAVE

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I like the Sustains. I have 2 of them and a Stradic. Of the 4000 series Shimano reels I own the Baitrunner D, Stradic, Sustain and Stella. Love the Stella but if you need the extra retrieval speed, the Sustain is the way to go. My favorite spinning combo is the Sustain 3000 on a Shimano Cumara rod in which I use for tossing light lures up to 3/4 oz.

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response from shimano...

 

"The Saragosa has a stronger frame when compared to the Sustain. This is why we list it as an offshore spinning reel. They were designed to handle heavier line and larger loads. Either reel will work well for your intended purpose, but I would lean more towards the Saragosa."

 

just thought y'all would like to hear this.. for a 4000 sized reel, probably a dead heat..

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View PostI think shimano offers a bailess kit for the saragosa fyi smile.gif

 

 

The bailess is only on the 5000, 6000, 8000. You don't wan to go to the 5000 becuase it is very heavy for a 5000 size at 20.6 Oz

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View PostSo my beautiful wife got me a sweet b-day present, and avid inshore ais76mf rod that i'm planning to use for bass, albies, bones etc. I'm pretty sure i want a 4000 sized shimano spinner. I'm stuck between a stradic, sustain, or saragosa 4000. I have a stradic 5000 on another reel, and a huge saragosa for heavy duty. love them both. anyone have some thoughts/experiences on these reels in the 4000 size class. are the sustain/saragosa worth more in this size? how do the sara and sustain compare?

 

before anyone mentions it, i like the spheros (have an 8000fb) too but really prefer the higher gear ratio of the sustain/stradic/saragosa for this type of fishing. thanks for the feedback. DAVE

 

 

4000 is definitely as big as you'd want to go on that rod. I'd go even lighter with the 3000. That Avid is really light at only 5.1 Oz. Here is the breakdown on the differences between them. If you are going to be using braid, then both the Sustain and Stradic feature AeroWrap II worm shaft oscillation that the Stella has for nearly perfect line lay. In the 4000 both the Sustain and the Stradic are at 11.3 Oz, the Saragosa is about 1 Oz heavier. 3000 Sustain and Stradic are even lighter at 9.5 Oz. They got plenty of capacity for what you need, 145 Yd of 20 braid. And plenty of drag at 15Lb. I would only go with the 4000 if you need more capacity at 175 Yd of 30. Now to the differences between the Sustain and Stradic. They are the same reel! The only difference is an additional bearing in the knob, (really, in the knob) who needs a bearing there anyway? And an additional bearing on the spool shaft. You can essentially convert a Stradic to a Sustain by buying the additional bearing and save a ton of money. The other differences are the colors and a better coating on the spool lip of the Sustain. That's it!

 

Besides that, the Stradic and Sustain are really refined reels. You are making the right choice. My only gripe with them are the reverse lever and graphite rotor and side plate instead of aluminum. But the rotor is very rigid. No worries here. Otherwise terrific reels. I'd tell you to look at the Penn Conquer, but really the Shimanos are way more refined and smooth. Although the Conquer is a gem with braid. And probably takes a hit a little better. The other problem with Penn is consistency. They are different, reel to reel. One may be really smooth, and another have a whir in the gears. Depends if you get lucky or not.

 

Hope this helps.

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I remember reading a review in that the Sustain isn't worth paying the extra $$ over a Stradic but I still bought 2 of them afterwards. I own both in the 4000 size. I can tell you that the bearing in the knob makes a difference in that it gives you the "feel" of a smoother reel. "Feel" is all about smoothness in retrieval, albeit a personal preference debated in forums with consistency.

 

Also, the extra bearing on the spool shaft helps the drag system - it makes the spool spin smoother rather than having a bushing there. A smoother drag system is IMO one of the most important attributes a reel can have when fighting a fish. My Stella has that spool shaft bearing also - it's there for a reason.

 

The difference may only be those 2 bearings but it seems like a nice upgrade IMO although I respect others opinions in that it isn't.

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View PostI remember reading a review in that the Sustain isn't worth paying the extra $$ over a Stradic but I still bought 2 of them afterwards. I own both in the 4000 size. I can tell you that the bearing in the knob makes a difference in that it gives you the "feel" of a smoother reel. "Feel" is all about smoothness in retrieval, albeit a personal preference debated in forums with consistency.

 

Also, the extra bearing on the spool shaft helps the drag system - it makes the spool spin smoother rather than having a bushing there. A smoother drag system is IMO one of the most important attributes a reel can have when fighting a fish. My Stella has that spool shaft bearing also - it's there for a reason.

 

The difference may only be those 2 bearings but it seems like a nice upgrade IMO although I respect others opinions in that it isn't.

 

 

 

There are a couple of points that could be made of one vs. the other. If you are looking for ultimate smoothness then the bearing in the handle helps a bit. As well as on the spool shaft. But for ultimate reliability I'll take a bushing. Less of a chance that contaminants will get in and ruin the bearings. The Stradic is already an exceedingly smooth reel. And I've had a few samples of the Sustain that didn't feel as smooth. The additional bearings can be purchased for much less then the difference in price and installed. For a full conversion you will need the Sustain spools but that will put the price over the top. Having said that, when I had a choice of which to get for myself I got the Sustain. But you can't go wrong with the Stradic.

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View PostThere are a couple of points that could be made of one vs. the other. If you are looking for ultimate smoothness then the bearing in the handle helps a bit. As well as on the spool shaft. But for ultimate reliability I'll take a bushing. Less of a chance that contaminants will get in and ruin the bearings. The Stradic is already an exceedingly smooth reel. And I've had a few samples of the Sustain that didn't feel as smooth. The additional bearings can be purchased for much less then the difference in price and installed. For a full conversion you will need the Sustain spools but that will put the price over the top. Having said that, when I had a choice of which to get for myself I got the Sustain. But you can't go wrong with the Stradic.

 

 

Reliability does not trump smoothness in a drag system. Bushings work in that instance and has done very well for many years. However, when you speak of "refinement" in a reel as you did in our previous post, the spool shaft bearing is part of what you are describing - correct? If "ultimate reliability" were that big of a deal - all my reels would have no more than 3 bearings because bearings set you up for failure. I don't think I'm going to go that route.

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View PostReliability does not trump smoothness in a drag system. Bushings work in that instance and has done very well for many years. However, when you speak of "refinement" in a reel as you did in our previous post, the spool shaft bearing is part of what you are describing - correct? If "ultimate reliability" were that big of a deal - all my reels would have no more than 3 bearings because bearings set you up for failure. I don't think I'm going to go that route.

 

 

No problem, that's why there are choices. For me going with the Sustain was more of a mental thing than anything. I had one Stradic 6000 in the shop that had such perfect gear alignment and tolerance that it was way smoother than my Sustain. It's not all about the bearings. The Penn Conquer has 11 yet the Stradic with 6 is much more "refined" and smooth.

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View PostNo problem, that's why there are choices. For me going with the Sustain was more of a mental thing than anything. I had one Stradic 6000 in the shop that had such perfect gear alignment and tolerance that it was way smoother than my Sustain. It's not all about the bearings. The Penn Conquer has 11 yet the Stradic with 6 is much more "refined" and smooth.

 

 

 

I never said it was about the amount of bearings - just the two bearings you mentioned that I feel DOES make a difference... to me at least. There are many reels that have more bearings than the Stradic or Sustain but they in no way can compete or who knows, some are better that I may not have tried. By all means, let me know.

 

So you had a Stradic that's smoother than a Sustain - is that consistent throughout the line? Or are you contradicting what you said that "they're the same reel"??? Hence, you might find a super smooth Saros smoother than an oddball Stella in your shop but that doesn't mean a thing from the consumer's perspective. When we talk reels - it's gotta be in general, not the one diamond you find that'll out-do the rest. We as consumers cannot make educated decisions on that. IDEA! - Take the BEST Stradic you find in your shop and compare it to the BEST Sustain and truly tell me which one is better. Not better "for the money", but BETTER.

 

Love, love, love the Conquer but yes, it's not the smoothest reel in the world if you compare it to others on retrieve. Perhaps the gears are not machined with the strictest precision.

 

Nevertheless, the drag system is utterly fantastic - at least my 7000 is. Lo and behold, underneath the spool lies a bearing!

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View Post So you had a Stradic that's smoother than a Sustain - is that consistent throughout the line? Or are you contradicting what you said that "they're the same reel"??? Hence, you might find a super smooth Saros smoother than an oddball Stella in your shop but that doesn't mean a thing from the consumer's perspective. When we talk reels - it's gotta be in general, not the one diamond you find that'll out-do the rest. We as consumers cannot make educated decisions on that. IDEA! - Take the BEST Stradic you find in your shop and compare it to the BEST Sustain and truly tell me which one is better. Not better "for the money", but BETTER.

 

 

I'm not contradicting, I'm saying that the gearing tolerance and alignment are more important for smoothness than bearings. Looked at some reels - I'll be honest with you, not much of a difference in feel

 

 

View Post Love, love, love the Conquer but yes, it's not the smoothest reel in the world if you compare it to others on retrieve. Perhaps the gears are not machined with the strictest precision.

 

View PostNevertheless, the drag system is utterly fantastic - at least my 7000 is. Lo and behold, underneath the spool lies a bearing!

 

 

That's my point, as you say the Conquer has the bearing and not as smooth. A lot of times bearings are for marketing not a practical purpose.

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View Post

 

I'm not contradicting, I'm saying that the gearing tolerance and alignment are more important for smoothness than bearings. Looked at some reels - I'll be honest with you, not much of a difference in feel

 

That's my point, as you say the Conquer has the bearing and not as smooth. A lot of times bearings are for marketing not a practical purpose.

 

 

I get what you're saying about the alignment - very true. But I was saying the Conquer's DRAG SYSTEM was smooth, not the reel as a whole. The bearing under the spool helps the Conquer's drag system to the point it's one of the smoothest on the market in that price range.

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