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bunkerchunker

He's going the distance..

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Two questions here....

 

1.) Say you want to cast 100-125ft. I can cast probably 60-80ft comfortably. But i find if you keep trying to lengthin the false casts by alittle, it becomes a struggle between trying to keep up with good form while false casting large amounts of line, and eventually you end up tiring out and having the line lose its integrity and hit the water or ground or create a larger looser loop.

 

In this case, is it easier to work on shooting the line from a point where you are comfortably in control....say 75 ft, and shoot the line that extra 40ft to get your farthest distance? it seems that providing one very power full cast to shoot the line can be more effective than trying to false cast your way further and further into a tough to manage scenario.

 

 

2) Are there techniques for holding the line a certain way to avoid it drifting in the water?? Basically, without a stripping basket, what alternative techniques are there to gathering the line in your left hand and allowing it to be free from drag while shooting the line.....(if its in the water it takes power away from your forward cast).

 

I've seen a FFerman hold three 5foot loops coiled in his left hand to manage his fly line...

 

thanks for any help.

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bunkerchunker. You just plain cant keep 100 to 125 feet of fly line in the air. Well most mortals can't anyway. Long distance needs long belly fly lines not short heads typically of 30 feet. You put the total head into the air and then shoot for distance. Good timing and high line speed will get you to 100 feet. 100 feet is a very long cast even in good conditions, very very few ever reach that marker with a single handed fly rod. Two to three flase cast max should get you enough line speed if you can cast. A double haul will be essential to.

Good luck.

 

Mike

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Ok because i feel i've heard people on this forum throwing around yards, and i'm thinking to myself.......yards?! no F'ing way....

 

I'm glad because my thoughts were that managing that much line is ridiculous, 2 or 3 false casts and a very concentrated cast to shoot the line makes a lot of sense.

 

 

I haven't worried much about it untill dealing with my 9wt and the salt. The distance comes into play much more when your in salt because those spots seem to be further away.

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I've finally made it to the point where I can cast 95 feet with perfect conditions. It's taken me 10+ years on and off. It is a lot more timing and a lot less muscle, than I had originally thought.

 

I was stuck at 60-80ft for a long time!

 

Concentrate on making perfect loops and learning to move the rod when the line is straight. You want the rod to be loading during the entire stroke, not just at the end of the stroke. Anyway, good luck!

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i basically have no frame of reference other than my own, so to speak truthfully i don't know if people can fast 100ft or 200.....so my numbers above are skewed....

 

i would say (imagining a pitchers mound to homeplate lol) 60 feet is comfortable for me. so i guess getting to around 90 or so is really the tougher part, and i guess its all in shooting the line and having the line be free from impedances as to allow for it to shoot through the guides as resitance free as possible to maximize distance....

 

 

thanks for the help still looking for help on #2

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#2:

 

You can make at least four loops, one to each finger. Later formed must became smaller ex 7, 6, 5, 4, strips so when you shoot them adjacent order smaller loop first so it does not go behind longer and cause tangle.

 

Hauling SH rod with loops in line hand is not easy so many of us use stripping basket. But with TH rod I use loops in my bottom hand with better success.

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I'm historically a freshwater guy and the longest I really needed to cast was 40-50 feet. With the salt this year, I've been able to start getting the double haul going and hit probably close to 80 a few times. My suspicion, is that indeed, it's a couple casts to get energy going, and due to good timing, you get the best load on the road and can really shoot that last forward cast.

 

The comments from all of you guys really help me to clarify what I'm trying to accomplish - Thanks to bunkerchucker for asking the question!

 

Do you guys that work to shoot long tend to favor stiffer lines? Seems to me a stiffer line would shoot better but I dont know how much of a difference that really makes?

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Throwing distance is great. However, for me, being able to false cast a minimum number of times and then to "shoot" my line at a specific spot in the water is key. I want my fly "in the zone" for as long as possible. And after hours of casting, my shoulder/arm appreciate the minimum # of false casts.

 

This is expecially significant in fishing salt water, where you're battling wind seemingly at all times. While wading in the salt, I always use a stripping basket - it's a must.

 

Tight lines all!

Cman smile.gif

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bunkerchunk, trying to put distance into perspective for you. I have just come back from Cape Cod and during my time there I got to see an awful lot of Fly Boys casting. Most would not reach 90 feet unless they went back to casting school. Very few Guys can consistantly cast 30 yards it is almost a full WF fly line. You need good conditions to reach these distances. Now whilst good casting is aboiut technique and timing in tricky winds you sometimes need to apply a bit of energy to. This is especially true with a wind that is on your back. You have to pow the line low into the following wind and get the line to fully straighten before going into the forward cast. I see very few Guys doing this in practice on the beach. Big flies and heavy Clousers even with 9 and 10 wts will make the 90 foot plus cast out of reach for very many. If you are pretty new do not expect too much at first. If you can consistiantly reach 20 yards to 24 yards in averge wind conditions you would be doing well in your first year at this game in the surf. On flat sweet water you don't have the same problems of line management as we get in a wavey surf. You have to work at lifting your sunk fly and position it to make a good back cast which is the foundation of all good casts. This make take one or more good roll casts to get the line out straight so you can start your back cast with a very low to the water rod tip. Too many casts start with the rod tip say at waist high and your casting arc has largely gone then. This is why yard casts are so much longer than real life casts in the surf. It helps if you are always airialising the same amount of line at the start of the cast. To do this consistiantly requires experince or to short cut experience make a foot long black mark on your fly line at the point you find you can easily roll cast the fly onto the surface and go into your back cast.

For medium distance casts say 20 to 22 yards it should be possible to retrieve your fly, get to your pick up point, roll cast go into just one back cast make a double haul and deliver. This is especially true with high density fast sinking fly lines. But don't expect to do this in 5 minutes. Does not take forever either. Casting lessons on water are a real boon to getting all of this down to pat.

The real fun starts when you are trying to time everything with the cycle of the waves coming at you. But it is fun.

Mike

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Will K said:

Do you guys that work to shoot long tend to favor stiffer lines? Seems to me a stiffer line would shoot better but I dont know how much of a difference that really makes?
I certainly prefer a stiff line regardless of taper. It makes a huge difference when it's hot.

 

The softer the line is, the more friction is generated as it goes through the guides when shooting and especially when hauling on the forward cast. On the forward haul, the line comes from behind the rod blank, through the snake guide and back behind the rod blank again then does it all over again for the next one in line.

 

That friction is so bad summers in S. Florida, that I turn my guides out to the right 45 degrees when casting so I don't get haul "jam" or "lock up" on the forward haul.

 

That is when the line stops dead during the haul and you think you are going to yank snake guides off or break your rod. If you are feeling more resistance on the forward haul than the backwards haul, twist the rod sections out. It even works on two piece rods; just twist the top section out. If you are fishing for large fish, make sure you really tighten up the ferrules.

 

Bunkerchucker,

60 to 70' casts are very good casts as Mike said, especially if done while fishing and more especially if done salt-water fishing with blowing wind, big flies, often weighted, sticky lines and up to your waist in water. In fact, everything he said is spot on from what I remember of casting for stripers and blues many years ago.

 

I would take the claims of 125' casts with a single-handed rod with a grain of salt as Mike indicated, even if yard casts. Below are the results of the 2008 Best of the West Distance Casting championships, indoors in Denver where the air is thin, using 5wt rods specifically designed for distance casting and throwing SA MED distance competition lines with a bit of fluff on the leader, not real flies. Those guys are are all among the world's best casters. Especially Steve Rejeff, who has won 33 of the past 34 American Casting Association National Championships (with two ties) and is a 13-time World Casting Champion.

 

Steve Rajeff - 115'1"

Rick Hartman - 114'1"

Brian O'Keefe - 112'9"

Jim Gunderson - 112' 8"

Bill Gammel - 105'5"

Clay Roberts _ 101'5"

 

Granted those figures are with 5 wt lines; nonetheless a 100+ foot cast with real hooks is one long cast with any WF line, even if standing only ankle deep in water. I wouldn't worry about distance so much, just work on your technique while fishing so you can cover the water the most efficient way possible as Cman and Mike said just above.

 

And play around with your technique in the yard or when nothing's happening at the beach. Try switching grips when casting with the wind sometime. Use a palm forward grip on the backcast, so you can jam the butt into your forearm and fire the backcast back into the wind (without needing your wrist muscles) , then during the drift, switch to a thumb on top grip for the forward shoot. It's much easier than it might sound and you might like it.

 

Seems to me that you cast very well already. If you really want to check on your progress, buy a 100' tape measure and stretch it out. They are cheap. Only taped distances count for anything other than boll$hitting.biggrin.gif

 

Cheers,

Jim

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When casting long casts with single hand rod the line hand is as important as rod hand as is whole body. Hauling adds distance but it makes casting closer, fishing range easier too. But extending line controlled manner is necessary and forming O with forefinger and thumb where line slides until it is released in last haul on forward cast makes handling line easier. Rest three fingers may form a contact with palm which help controlling line running closing it during false casting and it seems like many casters pinch running line between thumb and forefinger to prevent it slipping during haul stroke.

 

There are a lot of very good distance casting videos in YouTube but they are quite far from fishing casts but this link shows a style which I think best suits casting shooted fishing casts. Especially the last example he shows. Tim Rajeff is powerful caster who benefit stiff rods which most current saltwater rods are.

 

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I always follow these long cast threads to see how long it goes before someone points out another side of the issue. In this case are you casting or fishing.

 

Fact: The longer distance you can cast the more water you can cover.

 

Fact: The longer you can cast under good conditions the farther you will be able to cast under less than good conditions.

 

Both of these are good, but only to a point.

 

Here is the rest of the story.

 

Fact: The further away a fish takes you fly the harder it is to get a good hookset especially on tough mouthed fish. And this doesn't even account for the fact that the less line out the more correctly you can manipulate the fly.

 

So while I am all for being a good caster. I would much rather be able to throw 75ft accurately and quickly than 110 ft and take a fair amount more time in doing so. Yes there are clearly times when you can get a shot at a fish at 100ft that most guys won't even get the fly too. No doubt this is good. But for most of the time on the water a guy who can throw a solid 75 ot 80 quickly and accurately is going to be catching just as many fish as the distance guy.

 

Ok you long distance guys feel free to bash away.biggrin.gif

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Good morning boys and girls,

 

Fact: The longer distance you can cast the more water you can cover.

 

Equals, Two Handed fly rod

 

 

Fact: The longer you can cast under good conditions the farther you will be able to cast under less than good conditions

 

Equals, Two Handed fly rod

 

Fact: The further away a fish takes you fly the harder it is to get a good hookset especially on tough mouthed fish. And this doesn't even account for the fact that the less line out the more correctly you can manipulate the fly.

 

Equals, Circle Hooks, where the poor unlucky fish hooks its self.

 

Ok you long distance guys feel free to bash away.

 

NO BASHING, please just explaining, as part of a fair and reasonable debate between like minded people.

 

Kind regards,

UB

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