Artificial all the way

Fluke migration pattern and info

Rate this topic

49 posts in this topic

On 7/23/2018 at 9:47 PM, squidder 329 said:

 My understanding is the 14 is called a platter, ideal restaurant meals.  

Then how do explain the fact that the bigger fish always command a higher price per pound?

Edited by MakoMike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/23/2018 at 4:41 PM, The BuzzardsBayBruin said:

Great discussion. To the original question

 

does anyone have information on the fluke migration routes? Especially from their winter grounds into summer months?

They migrate east-west in the winter...and then west-east in the spring. If I had to guess they probably follow bottom contours, like channels leading from near shore to the deep. 

 

On 7/23/2018 at 9:47 PM, squidder 329 said:

Commercial have a 14" size but they are limited by tonnage. My understanding is the 14 is called a platter, ideal restaurant meals.  

As Mike noted, much larger fluke demand a MUCH higher price per pound...nobody wants 14" fluke except recreational guys - the commercial fishermen are forced to keep them. Otherwise they would much rather fill their quota with bigger fish.

 

The way fluke regulations work - and something the folks that try to get recs riled up against commercial fishermen don't tend to tell the masses they are trying to rile up - now following along for a second :)

- bigger fluke are worth much more money per pound than smaller fluke

- commercials are limited by quotas in pounds 

- therefore they would much rather throw back smaller fluke and only keep the larger/largest fluke

- the nets they are forced to use are designed to catch 16" fluke - but the nets accidentally catch some fluke as small as 14" - since the fluke are DEAD when landed fisheries managers FORCE commercials to keep the 14"-16" fluke because they are DEAD - the commercials DO NOT WANT THEM.

 

The regulations that FORCE commercials to keep those small fluke are HELPING recreational anglers greatly - forcing them to keep those small fish THEY DON'T WANT means their quota will be filled sooner. That means those undesirable smaller fluke are filling quota that would otherwise be used for harvesting the LARGER fluke rec anglers need. And forcing them to keep those small fish that they don't want keeps them from shoveling hundreds of thousands of pounds of already dead 14-16" fluke back into the ocean - they are landed and count against their quota.

 

So it always makes me a little sad to see folks that KNOW how it works still tell fluke fishermen that commercials have a 14" minimum in order to get recreational anglers riled up and pissed off. It just shows you that they are more interested in getting people angry rather than getting them educated :read:  Squidder, next time someone tells you how unfair it is that commercials CAN keep 14" fluke, let them know that they are FORCED to keep 14" fluke that they don't want to keep because they are already dead....in all honesty, the fluke regulations forcing them to keep those smaller fish that they don't want is one of the smartest regulations that I'm aware of :wave:

 

TimS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By platter I'm saying these are the fish for restaurants the rest go to the fish market. An example is the Lobster House, can you picture flounder stuffed with crab meat wrapped in a half inch thick filet, the larger filet just wouldn't look right. The larger fish are in the market for $16.95 a pound.

I'm not ticked off at the commercials they are making a living and when I want clam chowder or scallops or cod or king crab legs, I appreciate being able to walk up to a counter and get it. If ticked at anybody it would be other fishermen for lack participation in fish management. I've gone to the meeting and taken the bus ride to Washington, signed the petitions on here and sent emails to my representatives.  

We should learn from the commercial fishermen they put there money where their mouth is and hire the lobbyist and they keep working in the background to get what they want. Look how long it took to get the sea bass pots off the reefs and they strung it out till August so they can have sea bass on the menu at the Lobster House till vacation season is over. 

Is there a forum on SOL dedicated to Fisheries Management, not there isn't, why because nobody would read it. We would rather discuss thousand dollar reels to catch fish that aren't there. 

At one point "I believe" all by by catch was counted toward tonnage maybe their lobbyist may have adjusted that issue for them. 

 

So I don't claim to KNOW as I stated it was "my understanding" and I also KNOW a charter boat in NJ who fished Delaware Bay who had a commercial license and was happy to take all the 14 incher's he could get that I do know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 mins ago, squidder 329 said:

Is there a forum on SOL dedicated to Fisheries Management, not there isn't, why because nobody would read it. We would rather discuss thousand dollar reels to catch fish that aren't there. 

At one point "I believe" all by by catch was counted toward tonnage maybe their lobbyist may have adjusted that issue for them. 

 

So I don't claim to KNOW as I stated it was "my understanding" and I also KNOW a charter boat in NJ who fished Delaware Bay who had a commercial license and was happy to take all the 14 incher's he could get that I do know.

My apologies, I wasn't suggesting that you KNEW...I was suggesting that whomever shared their 'outrage' over the commercials being ALLOWED to keep 14" fluke more than likely KNEW that commercials are FORCED to keep them, against their will...they'd much rather fill their quota with 5# fluke.

 

As far as I know there has never been a fishery where bycatch is counted towards their quota. Fish shoveled over the side dead don't count against quotas...lobbyists weren't needed to change that :)  Bycatch should certainly be counted somewhere...more accurately than it is now. That's another discussion though.

 

As to the stuff fluke - that's the only way I like it...when I'm using large fillets to make it I just cut them into to thinner fillets first :th:

 

TimS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 mins ago, squidder 329 said:

Sorry Tim, I misunderstood.

No worries...that's why we have these discussions :)

 

TimS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bycatch numbers are just seeing their way into the big picture.  NEFMC only recently started reporting all those fluke that get tossed over the side that are accordioned in scallop dredges.  Those certainly don't account towards any quota nor are they forced to keep them.  Nor do all the large fluke kept as bycatch during the winter monkfish and skate gillnet season. As per quota, why is it that fluke stocks have taken so long to recover, despite their fecundity, if they are no longer "overfished". :squid: 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/27/2018 at 9:43 AM, Kneel said:

Bycatch numbers are just seeing their way into the big picture.  NEFMC only recently started reporting all those fluke that get tossed over the side that are accordioned in scallop dredges.  Those certainly don't account towards any quota nor are they forced to keep them.  Nor do all the large fluke kept as bycatch during the winter monkfish and skate gillnet season. As per quota, why is it that fluke stocks have taken so long to recover, despite their fecundity, if they are no longer "overfished". :squid: 

Several of your comments are wrong. 1- The NEFMC has nothing to do with fluke, which are managed by the MAFMC. 2 - Those flatfish coming up in scallop dredges are yellowtail flounder, not fluke and the scallop fishery has a defined quota for yellowtail bycatch. If they catch too many yellowtail the scallop fisheries shut down. 3 - No bycatch in the monkfish or skate fisheries can be sold unless the boat also has a limited access fluke permit.  4 - your last question is your best. According to the fishery scientists, the fluke are not nearly as fecund as was once believed and there is a unlocated error in the model used to project fluke populations which causes the young fish to be over counted, it known as a "retrospective pattern." 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/28/2018 at 0:05 PM, MakoMike said:

Several of your comments are wrong. 1- The NEFMC has nothing to do with fluke, which are managed by the MAFMC. 2 - Those flatfish coming up in scallop dredges are yellowtail flounder, not fluke and the scallop fishery has a defined quota for yellowtail bycatch. If they catch too many yellowtail the scallop fisheries shut down. 3 - No bycatch in the monkfish or skate fisheries can be sold unless the boat also has a limited access fluke permit.  4 - your last question is your best. According to the fishery scientists, the fluke are not nearly as fecund as was once believed and there is a unlocated error in the model used to project fluke populations which causes the young fish to be over counted, it known as a "retrospective pattern." 

 

You just reinforced what I said. NEFMC is only beholden to yellowtail and winter flounder quotas. NOT summer flounder, windowpane, 4 spot, grey sole...over the side they go with an assumed 90% mortality.  Sold or released, what do you suspect the mortality of fluke, LARGE fecund fluke, that are unable to run the gauntlet of mesh targeting monkfish?  Apples and oranges, son and not even CONSIDERED in stock assessment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike, I think what Kneel is saying is who’s counting the fluke killed as bycatch in fisheries

mamaged by NEMFC? Who’s counting the large fluke killed in the monfish fishery? 

 

TimS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Kneel said:

 

You just reinforced what I said. NEFMC is only beholden to yellowtail and winter flounder quotas. NOT summer flounder, windowpane, 4 spot, grey sole...over the side they go with an assumed 90% mortality.  Sold or released, what do you suspect the mortality of fluke, LARGE fecund fluke, that are unable to run the gauntlet of mesh targeting monkfish?  Apples and oranges, son and not even CONSIDERED in stock assessment.

The NEFMC is "beholden" to NMFS/NOAA which assigns the responsibility for the various species. As I said before the MAFMC manages fluke. It's not a question of what you or I think is the release mortality of fluke. That data usually comes from either a controlled experiment or observers. I can go look up what the release mortality is for released fluke in the soon to be finished benchmark stock assessment. Furthermore it is more than "considered" in the stock assessment. VTRs can provide catch estimates on unobserved trips and obviously observers count the entire catch so your argument is totally without merit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, TimS said:

Mike, I think what Kneel is saying is who’s counting the fluke killed as bycatch in fisheries

mamaged by NEMFC? Who’s counting the large fluke killed in the monfish fishery? 

 

TimS

Very few fluke are killed in the Monkfish gill net fishery, But VTRs and server data is counted in the stock assessments. Gill nets have to almost lie on the bottom to catch flatfish, but that would be vey inefficient in catching monk fish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/31/2018 at 4:59 PM, MakoMike said:

Very few fluke are killed in the Monkfish gill net fishery, But VTRs and server data is counted in the stock assessments. Gill nets have to almost lie on the bottom to catch flatfish, but that would be vey inefficient in catching monk fish.

Mike...potentially silly question...but aren't monkfish on the bottom? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.