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Kevin Bogan

Rod breakage/surf rods

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It has always been my belief that faster taper surf rods are more apt to break due to the nature of the taper itself, That is, the thin tip area is to weak to accept the load and impact in both casting and hook setting. I have heard many stories by anglers that have broken rods, my own, and various brands while casting. I know many dealers that have reported similar stories.

I believe that all manufacturers of surf rod blanks will be seeing more breakage in times to come for yet another reason.

eg; any given plug blank may have a tip value of say 3/4-3 oz. or similar.

Few however realize that the high end of this rating can rarely be used at a higher value. The rating I mentioned is probably great for most plastics and woods that are on the smaller side. There are however many new "plug builders" making wood plugs that are not only works of art, but as they increase in size, well so does the terminal weight value. I suspect that many anglers will be pulling out the bigger plugs, casting with their 'plug' rod and after the rod snapping will ask themselves "what happenend"?

I refer to this problem as "stress overload", and anticipate that more will be seen throughout the industry. My thought to a solution would be to change both the taper and material. A slower taper will bring the load stress to an area closer to the butt, an area more likely to withstand the load, and the use of a lower modulas graphite will no doubt allow for more 'shock absobsion'.

In the title I use surf rods as the example, but the problem does exist in other types of faster taper blanks.

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I agree. the only thing I will add is that the material change to a lower modulus will also result in the bending moving further down the rod just as the cross sectional and length taper will.

 

My personal experience however has been that the very high modulus materials have caused my broken rods , not the taper. I broke 2 rods in a mater of minutes whose blanks were made from a super high modulus material. A comparably shaped (both overall outside diameters at similar length positions , taper) blank made from lower modulus graphite is now almost 20 years old with no failure. the only thing I can't say for sure is if the wall thicknesses are the same since I would need to either break or cut through the rod that didn't break to see this accurately.

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Another factor to consider is hte guide number and placement. I have seen too many rods brought in for repair that weren't done right in hte first place. Spare hte guide spoil hte rod. C2

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Breakage is common with both fast tapers and high modulas. JK fisher hit the nail on the head, the first time, I cant imagine that no one has picked up on their style, um,.,, on second thought I can. The surf blank industry is in shambles, the designers, IMO dont understand it.That is of course my opinion.wink.gif

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Rods today have surpassed JKF quality. Their actions weren't much different then Cascades IM-6 of years gone or of Lamiglas's IM-7 version of the GSB.The reason for "shambles" in the USA rod blank companys is...... Drum roll.... Companys like Batson importing.. !! Thats my opinion!!I support USA manufactuers of rod blanks for two reasons. I beleive in the product.." Quality" and the workers in these plants have familys who need to eat. Price points.. Who really cares?? I have scruples and dedication to my country. Import blanks.. No one and I mean no one can keep their eye on the Chinese and what they do.. trust me I have first hand experiance besides... whatch the news!!What about todays surf blank designers don't they understand?? There are more actions and choices today then ever before harping on JKF isn't going to bring them back.. All star will never be back either.. or will they...

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With the advances in materials and technology i am hoping manufacturers will not go back to slow tapered rods and lower modulus graphite.I know many seasoned surf guys and most of them tell me they look forward to ever higher performing rods in the future, and want something that cast farther with much less effort while retaining a light feel .Many of them are 60+ years old and dont have the stamina and endurance like they used too .They want high performance with little effort and are very willing to spend the money to get it.Many rod companies have been underrating there rods for a while now and i dont hear any problems with breakage issues, and if i did i certainly wouldnt contribute it all to fast tapered rods. my $0.02

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View PostBreakage is common with both fast tapers and high modulas.

 

 

Breakage is more common with faster tapers and high modulus materials, not common. If it were common the rod companies would be losing boatloads of money and eliminating the offending designs. There is a huge difference in the two statements.

 

View PostThe surf blank industry is in shambles, the designers, IMO dont understand it.

 

 

"THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING"... or not.

 

Seriously, what is all the drama about? The industry is in shambles??? The designers don't understand??? This is based on what...a few broken rods?

 

Get real, the industry is just fine. Do some of rods break more frequently than others? Sure, but that doesn't mean the industry is broken. Like any other sport or hobby that guys are involved with, we try to find that advantage, the edge. Sometimes that is by pushing the design envelope with equipment. Everything used to be wood, then it was fiberglass, and now graphite. It is the same with tennis rackets, golf clubs, bike frames, car bodies, and hockey sticks.

 

Sometimes, the designers hit a homerun the first time out, but more often than not it is a continuous learning process. You may think "Graphite has been around for 30 years, what needs to be learned?" Since no new material has replaced it, improvements have been made to rods with higher modulus graphite (allowing lighter rods with thinner walls), newer resins, newer tapers. These advancements have resulted in rods that an average guy can toss lures 80-100yds with all day. It has resulted in golf clubs that amateurs can use for 270 yd average drives...etc.

 

Some have better performance than others, some break easier than others. That is the nature of the beast when you push the edge. High modulus graphite is more prone to damage induced breakage, It also cannot be bent to the same sharp angles as lower modulus graphite. Whether this is user error (based on anglers' experience with lower modulus graphite), bad luck (hook nicks), bad guide spacing, or rod taper, I fail to see how this means that the rod business is in shambles. I fail to see even one theory of how the fast tapers are the problem.

 

You get my vote for the best perfomance in a drama.

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SFM, you mean it's not the Manu's fault? If you wanna reduce the amount of people doing this, get rid of free replacements on breakages. Problem is cheap crap has this policy so the quality factory rods have to compete with that.

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Surfisher mike, thats exactly it, the people will put the rods under undue stress and then break the rod, They will then go back to the rod guy and say "what happened?" [a slower taper would help resolve this. That doesnt mean slow taper, just slower than most existing designs]

As for my post, fast taper and high modulas is the flaw. That's right. As for the industry in shambles, I'll rephraze, I dont believe that the guys designing the blanks are aware of this flaw, but they will learn. Give them time.

Crash G thanks, It looks like you support my claims in your last paragraph.

The sky is not falling, I know a lot of dealers and I hear the return stories.

Is it true or not that many Ron Arras break, break again, break again, true,not true? Thats just one example.

Surfmaster, Batson is just copying other designs and imports the product. It is not the overseas product that is at fault here, it is the design. By the way, the Chinese are more than capable of building any blank as good as ANY US mfgr. As for you being Patriotic, I agree, I offer American flags on my rods for those that want them, a lot of people do.

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The flaw is people misusing products. If someone drives a Ferrari in NYC and shows up at the Manu saying the suspension is a mess...are you goign to tell Ferrari to redesign their car, or tell the idiot that car isn't designed for where he's driving.

 

Only in the fishing world are people this backwards.

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I agree there with eliminating the free replacement BS. Maybe they will be a little more careful with their rod then. What also would help would be realistic ratings for the people that want to follow them. Changing all tapers and materials to make rods idiot proof is not a solution.

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