Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
fish'nmagician

Bridging the Left/Right Divide.... Immigration

Rate this topic

54 posts in this topic

It seems BOTH sides of the aisle will pay lip service to immigration,

yet NOTHING gets done.

I can't figure out why this is.

 

here are MY priorities on immigration.

 

1. STOP the flow of illegals pouring in from Mexico. Build a fence.. increase manpower. Do whatever it takes.

2. Reduce the incentive to come over. Clamp down on those hiring illegals. Restrict benefits given to illegals, rewrite the citizenship laws so that anchor babies will no longer be born.

3. deport the dirt bags.

4. Figure out some means of amnesty for those who have been living here and ARE productive members of our society. Housing markets are bad enough without trying to throw out all illegals who are paying a mortgage.

 

I don't like the Arizona law ONLY because it seems to invite abuse.

 

my interest is in ELIMINATING illegal immigrants,

not in allowing them to come in and work for peanuts, but keeping them in fear and without a voice.

 

I'd rather keep them out,

then let them in, give them jobs, and harrass them.

 

what is the right wing priority list?

and are we REALLY far apart?

or is the difference purely made up in the media and partisan rhetoric?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think the divide is what the incentives to come over are

 

1) if you claim that its the businesses hiring illegals and the corporations benefiting from the illegal labor, you're painted a scummy lib

 

2) if you claim that its the benefits and entitlements, then you're seen as a scummy conservative

 

 

no side denies the problem, but they try to paint each other as missing the point..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
View Posti think the divide is what the incentives to come over are

 

1) if you claim that its the businesses hiring illegals and the corporations benefiting from the illegal labor, you're painted a scummy lib

 

2) if you claim that its the benefits and entitlements, then you're seen as a scummy conservative

 

 

no side denies the problem, but they try to paint each other as missing the point..

 

 

Another divide: To grant amnesty or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see them as being part of the same issue.

 

I'd rather not do ONE without the OTHER.

 

If we let them in by making border security a LOW priority,

and doing little to prevent employing them,

then they are BASICALLY guest workers and we can't treat them as sub human by denying them medical attention,

or deporting them if they report abuse to the police.

 

I'm all for denying them benefits,

but it MUST be done in conjuction with a genuine effort to keep them out,

and impeding those who wish to hire them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OPEN the borders. All who want to come and earn money are welcome, citizen or not.

Shut down ALL government welfare programs so that all US citizens currently being paid to not work would have incentive to seek employment and release their full potential. Also since around a third of illegal aliens are also on the dole, this would eliminate that expenditure.

Remove all government restrictions on contracts between two private individuals so that those seeking or offering work can do so without that pain in the arse.

Legalize all drugs, so that the meth and the heroin currently flowing across the border is no longer worth the gasoline required to drive it here. Make the junkies try to cook their own, that will be entertaining.

 

 

TA DAAAAAA!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that's very pro business Little.

 

I'd rather not drive down US wages with third world labor.

What is the incentive of a nation to climb upward,

if we allow Big Business to push us back down.

 

Our loyalty should be to our country,

NOT to the Corporations we work for.

 

Sadly Nationalism really doesn't come into play for libertarians.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
View Post

 

If we let them in by making border security a LOW priority,

and doing little to prevent employing them,

then they are BASICALLY guest workers

 

 

Immigration attorney said : I would argue that the U.S., by not enforcing the southern border with Mexico, has waived border enforcement and therefore immigrants coming across that border are not lawbreakers.

 

Lack of government action to prevent/prosecute the hiring of illegals would be used by the attorney to support his waiver argument.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
View PostImmigration attorney said : I would argue that the U.S., by not enforcing the southern border with Mexico, has waived border enforcement and therefore immigrants coming across that border have violated no law.

 

 

not TECHNICALLY true,

but it is somewhat valid.

 

If you KNOW cops won't issue a ticket on a highway as long as you keep it under 75....

then a lot of people drive 75 and don't feel like criminals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sadly FnM the practical failures are in your points 3 & 4 - due to the size of the problem, cost and constitutional problems with ID.

 

It takes the US 12 months at least to process 160,000 legal migrants a year - checking incomes, relationships, criminal records, employment history etc.

 

now try that with 20 million plus unidentified illegal aliens.....

 

time and money dude.

 

 

I think you have to put the legal framework in place to deny them jobs, banking, credit, drivers licenses, healthcare, education AND claim amnesty, whilst allowing for effectively what is internment for those that don't choose amnesty.

 

I don't think that can be done at State levels (otherwise you create sanctuaries), so you are arguing for bigger and more vigilant (read intrusive) gubmint.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
View Postthat's very pro business Little.

 

I'd rather not drive down US wages with third world labor.

What is the incentive of a nation to climb upward,

if we allow Big Business to push us back down.

 

Our loyalty should be to our country,

NOT to the Corporations we work for.

 

Sadly Nationalism really doesn't come into play for libertarians.

 

My "loyalty" is my business, just as your "loyalty" is yours. You really can't speak for me on that subject.

 

The borders of the USA, specifically the South, will never EVER be "closed" however you define that term. Dealing with that fact will end this whole thing as an issue. I just fixed it.

As long as politicians force businesses to pay employees X, and agree to pay people X minus ten cents to not work (but vote) in the form of social welfare programs, this issue will never ever go away. Its common sense.

There is no common sense reason in the world for a US citizen to pick a strawberry for money in the USA. None. And it is by design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
View Post

 

now try that with 20 million plus unidentified illegal aliens.....

 

time and money dude.

 

 

I think you have to put the legal framework in place to deny them jobs, banking, credit, drivers licenses, healthcare, education AND claim amnesty, whilst allowing for effectively what is internment for those that don't choose amnesty..

 

 

would it be easier to DEPORT 20 million people?

 

the biggest mistake is in thinking BECAUSE we can't deal with those already in, we shouldn't keep new ones from sneaking in.

 

also.

 

I'm all for throwing Dirt bags out.

 

run it like a modfied AZ situation,

if an illegal runs afoul of the law,

then law enforcement will look at his record.

if he's a dirt bag,

throw him out,

if he's a productive person who did something minor.

then a practical amnesty situation kicks in.

 

I prioritized for a reason,

1 & 2 trump 3 & 4 for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.