Am I wrong?

[chicky]

i think the real question here is

"has steve ever been right!!?????"

[SteveC]

Chicky...you ever get hit with a clouser on a backcast?

On a forward cast? oh thats right...you can't cast..I forgot!

[chicky]

i admit it, i cant cast. but surf fishing, thats another story, ill teach u someday steve. ill start you off with some snappers in the canal.

cheers buddy, catch a monster this weekend

[Fergal]

One could make an arguement about the price level of the tackle that is purchased. Margins on the mid to lower end items are not as good as the higher end stuff. Backing isn't free for the fly shops. Buy a high end reel and I think it should be thrown in, a reel $300 or under could be a different story.

[Ed V]

Are you wrong? Probably not.

 

But I think maybe we should take a little time to try to understand why this is happening. I will preface this by saying two things. First, I am not a fly shop owner or employee. I am a customer. And second, I went into one of the shops I frequent in the past week and saw, for the first time, a sign on the counter with very specific charges for rigging - so much for dacron, so much for gelspun, so much per knot. Yes, I was really taken aback. But since I wasn't there for a reel or line THIS TIME, I let it slide. I didn't ask why.

 

But since then, I've been thinking about. And then I saw this thread. Why is this happening? Is it because the fly shop owner has suddenly gotten greedy? I really don't think so. Do they want to drive away business? Of course not. Is it because the fly shop owner really wants to survive and stay in business? I think this may be at the root of the issue.

 

I am sure many of you are aware that small independent fly shops are dying at an alarming rate. The market is soft. And competition is fierce from the big boys (Cabelas, Bass Pro, etc) as well as on-line vendors selling from their garage with little or no overhead. Add to that the fact that manufacturers are feeling the pinch and are desperate and are looking for ways to retail through the Walmarts of the world. And things don't look rosy for the small fly shops. I think many are fighting to survive.

 

Add to that the number of people who come into a fly shop to try out the rods or reels or whatever and then leave to buy it for MAYBE a few bucks less on the Internet of from a catalog and what happens? The independent fly shop owner is squeezed even further.

 

And who ends up paying for it? You do. I do. The guy or girl who sticks with the local shop; who tries to keep them in business with our business. We are the ones who have to pay for what's happening in the marketplace. We are the ones who are now paying for the rigging.

 

Its easy. I went to that fly shop to buy a TFO trout fly rod (not a big ticket item). But before I did, I came within a eyelash of getting the rod from Cabelas. But then I stopped and asked myself why? Why not just go to my independent fly shop and give them the business? So I did. I'm afraid some (many?) don't necessarily think that way.

 

Back to backing and rigging. Personally, I've never expected backing to be free. I don't care how expensive the reel is. The shop pays for backing. I pay for backing. If the shop wants to be nice then let them charge me their cost per foot. They don't make money on it but at least they don't lose a penny. Rigging is a different story. If I walk in with a reel, line and backing that I bought somewhere else (on-line or whatever), then I think they should charge for rigging it up. But if I buy it all there, I think rigging should be free. And I think that even extends to if I buy just the line and backing. If I come in with a reel that I want to put a new line on and I am buying the line there, they should rig it up - even if the reel was bought elsewhere. But that's my opinion.

 

In the meantime, if you want that fly shop to be around next month and next year, we better support them. And we better encourage our fellow fly fishermen to do likewise. I'd like to return to the good ol' days as well. But those days didn't have Cabelas and BPS popping up seemingly everywhere and all the on-line options. That fly shop may only be doing what they feel they have to do to survive.

 

Finally, I am not suggesting that any specific fly shop is in trouble or on the verge of closing. I would hope that is not the case. And besides, I would have absolutely no way of knowing that. All I am suggesting is that it is a difficult time for the industry and they have to do what they think they have to do to ensure their survival.

 

OK, I'm climbing off my soapbox.

 

[ 07-17-2004, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: Ed V ]

[Steel]

Steve and Ed both have valid points. I know for a fact that Ed likes his loops tied with 50# Ande mono,and I rig his stuff pretty often,shooting heads,lines,ect. This service is done beacause Ed is a good client.Even when has to the newest toy on the market,I still rig his equipment.This said lets move to why rigging charges are happening.

The concept of charging for backing and rigging,some shops throw this in as part of a outfit purchase ,a little thanks so to speak.But now its expected all the time.Like Ed said the shop pays for backing ,so on just a reel purchase shops may see this as optional.Given the fact that todays saltwater reels hold 250 yards of backing it costs the shop 20 bucks.

The other reason shops post rigging prices has do with equipment purchased elseware.All too often consumers go to there local shop for information,then purchase mwechandise on E-bay or mail order from a large company,only to find it doesnt come put together.Now he shows up with outfit in hand in 10 pieces and wants it put together.He could have purchased most name brand tackle from his local shop for the same price.Local shops have rent, electric insurance,ect to pay.They need to pay there bills too.

[hipkvw]

One could make an arguement about the price level of the tackle that is purchased. Margins on the mid to lower end items are not as good as the higher end stuff. Backing isn't free for the fly shops. Buy a high end reel and I think it should be thrown in, a reel $300 or under could be a different story.

 

I thought the same..

[surfrat59]

I'm with Steel on this one. Too many guys make major purchases at the big mail order houses and then show up at the shop for rigging and advice. I try to make all my purchases from the two tackle shops I use, even if it's a few bucks more than an online purchase. Personal service comes with something of a price, But if Steve bought the reel there the least they should have done is rigged it free of charge.

[RKirsch]

I try to do the majority of my shopping at local fly shops. Sometimes I'll buy flies through the 'Net, especially when I need a pattern that I can't find at a local shop. When I'm travelling I also try to drop into a local fly shop and give them some business (usually area-specific flies) before I fish.

 

On the other hand, I no longer patronize the fly shop mearest to me - specifically because the owner was deliberately rude to me after I'd just made a $50-75 purchase of tying supplies. I was looking at a braided fly (Woven Stone) he'd tied and mentioned that one day I'd like to learn how to tie it, and he said that he wouldn't be willing to show me (directions are on at least 3 different web sites I found that evening - this isn't a 'secret' fly).

 

I've found 3 shops that I deal with on a regular basis. One is about 30 minutes drive away in Media, PA. and the other 2 are out of state - one in Pt Pleasant, NJ and the other in Newport, RI. All offer first class customer support - including being willing to keep my credit card on file and send me a 'care package' when I call for supplies. This makes them worth supporting, and sending other people to them.

 

As far as rigging - if I buy the components (including the backing - it isn't cheap compared to the profit margin on the reel) I expect the rigging as a service. But I also am willing to wait through another sale or two so that there is a lull in business - or even come back the next day.

 

Hope that this helps.

 

Tight lines to all.

 

Rob

[C. Regalis]

I'm with Rob- although I think Steve's original question was, should the shop "throw in" the backing and rig the reel with it. If I bought the backing along with the line, I'd agree, rigging the outift isn't a lot to ask.

 

I try to patronize my local shop- he's not exclusively a fly shop but he usually has what I'm looking for, (its a surprise when he doesn't- and rare too)and his prices are such that there is little difference- buy from the shop or buy by mail and pay shipping. In fact, good will aside, its a decided advantage to walk out, purchase in hand! More than worth shopping locally.

 

The only time I'll mail order something (usually tying materials) is if I can't get it locally!

 

Steel What kind of name is that for a gurl?

[Striperknight]

I was in a flyshop in Vermont last week ,and the

owner would not give up one bit of fishing info.

He caught an attitude with me when I ask him for a good spot for fishing with my kids.

I took the Orvis clothes from my wife's hands and decided not to buy one thing from him.

 

I spent my lot of money elsewhere.

 

I also pay my way for everything but its nice to get a freebie once in a while. Value added service keeps me coming back.

[Material Girl]

Many of you who feel you are entitled to something for free ought to take a number of factors into consideration.

First, fly shops don't run on nearly the same margins as standard retail. In standard retail, merchants take their cost, then multiply by two at minimum, but more often to nearly three times their cost.

Second, standard retailers add the cost of freight into the retail price, thereby increasing the retail price even further, and covering their expenses. In 90% of all fly tackle situations, retailers never recover their freight expenses because the manufacturers have already advertised pricing, which leaves absolutely no leeway for the retailer to recoup the freight expenses.

Third, most of us use credit cards these days, and for thoses of you who don't realize it, retailers pay anywhere from 2.5 to 4 percent of their sale to process your credit card - that's $2.50 - $4.00 per hundred. This may not seem like much to many of you, but when you reduce the retail price by the delears cost, then take off the cost of getting the merchandise to the shop (freight), then the credit card processing fees - then a little for gas, electric, phone, rent, advertising (the only way to reming you we're still here),and payroll, just how much do you think remains.

Think about it - if a shop pays 5 cents a yard for backing, plus the freight to get it (and it's heavy!!) and charges the customer 7 cents a yard -do you really think they're making any money?

As far as rigging fees, when a purchase of reel, line & backing are made, in most cases, rigging is provided at no charge, But THIS IS A COURTESY! Someone's time is being utilized to provide this service - and whether it is owner or employee - that time deserves compensation. Their time is just as valuable as yours - I'm quite sure none of you would do your jobs for free - NOR WOULD YOU BE EXPECTED TO!!

Customer loyalty is always appreciated, and is usually rewarded appropriatly, but there are all to many of you, (you know who you are), that call or visit independent fly shops, milk them for info, or product demos, and then make your purchases online or from large mail order companis. If you inquire, I'm sure you will find most local shops are willing to ship if you're unable to make the trip.

In closing, when was the last time Walmart "threw in a little something"? Did your babysitter stay 2 extra hours for free? Maybe the bank could throw a few extra bucks into your account every now and then. Perhaps if you showed the same consideration to your fly shop that you expect in return - you might get it!!

[SteveC]

From a fly shop owners P.O.V. that puts things into perspective. I respect the laws that govern the owners of any retail establishment...we all have to eat!

 

This can go on and on but the 10 mins it took to tie the knots should not be billed to someone thats has made many large purchases from the same establishment.

 

I appreciate what they do for me and thats why I return to them whenever I need anything. Charging me for rigging and backing on my third reel burnt my ass a lil!

Lets see what happens when I order a spare spool and a new floater next week.

[chicky]

Charging me for rigging and backing on my third reel burnt my ass a lil!

 

prep H should fix that