fisher6280

Fly Rod Grips

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3 hours ago, quan808 said:

Just put the carbon grips on my 2nd NFC build. Looks good and the same weight as cork. I will put it to the test in Alaska in August.

You order the carbon grips from NFC for it? Keep me updated, worried about it being slippery once you've got fish slime all over your hands...

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HT,

 

I did notice what you mention. It was somewhat mottled in appearance in places because of how I had shaped it while I was cutting it. I was a bit too aggressive/impatient with my wood rasp and it caused tear-out in some places, which made it look like there was a void or depression in the material. When I finished the handle with sandpaper at the end it made it look like it had areas where it was less dense or inconsistent. I don't know if you noticed this, but I had also over-compressed it when I glued up the rings, so you can somewhat tell where the boundaries are because the syncork starts to look a little "squished" at these places. No glue lines though!

 

The material is completely homogenous, those things you noticed were just the fault of my craftsmanship. It takes a lot longer to shape than natural cork even if you use sandpaper and files/rasps, but I'd be willing to bet that with proper turning tools on a lathe it could be done very quickly and cleanly, without the issues I faced. I'm still learning to work with the material. I've got another TH build planned which I'll have done for the fall and I'll try using sandpaper the whole way, no rasps, just to see how it comes out and how long it takes. Even if it takes a while I'll probably default to that method as I very much dislike the job I did on the first handle. I know it can be a lot better than that.

 

My handle uses black and brown syncork, and yes they are functionally identical, it just has a different dye used in it. I would have used all brown for my handles but it's more expensive than the black, so I just stick with black. You could go with all brown and still spend significantly less than you would on a very good set of cork rings. To my knowledge those are the only two colors I have seen them in. I get all mine from getrodblanksdotcom. In my next build I'll be doing a single trim ring immediately adjacent to the end rings on the foregrip in burl cork, and the rear grip will be alternated burl/syncork, with syncork capping the ends. That's something that rubbed off on me from mike's builds.

 

If you're feeling curious about it but don't want to risk making a handle you'll hate, you can give my TH a try next time I'm at the cape for a few hours and see how you feel about it. No risk at all.

 

The stuff definitely is not traditional but hey how traditional are these surf fly rods we're making anyways? I think it fits the environment these rods live in.

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RedGreen

 

I have seen and held your handle and it is way better than I thought it might be.

It seems to offer a very viable solution and especially when cost is a significant factor. You made a good job especially as the material was new to you.

 

It is very light and it’s good to hold dry or wet.

 

As you know my handles are very long which means  it is very difficult to support in the lathe. Even with natural cork because of blank flexure under turning pressure we get to turn out of round if not very careful. This extends  considerably the time it takes to turn up a grip on the blank.

I don’t use mandrels for long grips as it is too difficult to match the ID taper of the grip to the OD  taper of the blank. There are also potential stress issues when epoxying which could endanger the blank.

Do you need to use more force using files and rasps than you would using oxide paper epoxied onto mdf blocks. When working with natural cork ?

Herb recently sent me a very sharp rasp about 1/2 inch wide which I have used on rubberised cork and natural. I will see if he can get more of them.

 

Mike

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8 mins ago, Mike Oliver said:

RedGreen

 

I have seen and held your handle and it is way better than I thought it might be.

It seems to offer a very viable solution and especially when cost is a significant factor. You made a good job especially as the material was new to you.

 

It is very light and it’s good to hold dry or wet.

 

As you know my handles are very long which means  it is very difficult to support in the lathe. Even with natural cork because of blank flexure under turning pressure we get to turn out of round if not very careful. This extends  considerably the time it takes to turn up a grip on the blank.

I don’t use mandrels for long grips as it is too difficult to match the ID taper of the grip to the OD  taper of the blank. There are also potential stress issues when epoxying which could endanger the blank.

Do you need to use more force using files and rasps than you would using oxide paper epoxied onto mdf blocks. When working with natural cork ?

Herb recently sent me a very sharp rasp about 1/2 inch wide which I have used on rubberised cork and natural. I will see if he can get more of them.

 

Mike

 

Mike,

 

As you know I pre-machined all my corks to just slightly oversize on the OD dimensions for my last build so that after gluing I had very little to remove for final shaping and finish.  I'm now working improving the method via CNC router.   Overkill for a short grip but a sweet process on grips as long as we need for our TH'ders.    

 

The samples of Syncork I've ordered to play around with will also be used as guinea pigs for hopefully a quick machining to rough out to near finished size like I did with my cork rings.     That being the case a very long grip can be constructed with little effort just knowing the blank starting diameter, end diameter, and spanned length.   Basically just changing a couple of dimensions on a CAD assembly drawing and they all automatically calculate to desired dimensions.  We could knock off a ton of these things for you in short order assuming I can find the right cutting tool, speeds & feeds.   Who knows maybe I'll be a convert.

 

HT

 

 

grip.jpg.89e56814b0f66356af41236acf8e3fa3.jpg

 

 

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Mike

 

I understand exactly what you're saying. I have found that I like much longer grips too, possibly even longer than yours. My next TH will have a 6.75" rear grip and a 17" foregrip.

 

As for using files and rasps, you don't usually need to use more force, they'll cut faster by design than sandpaper. The reason I use rasps and files is because they are much more coarse than sandpaper and as such offer higher contact pressure where the "tips" of the cutting points meet the material.

 

The downside is that they are so coarse that they can cause tear out on the material. Structurally, syncork is identical to styrofoam. Too coarse an abrasive rips a cell right out instead of cutting through it. Even some mill bastard files can cause tearout if too much force is used.

 

I think I may just have to learn to be very patient with sandpaper and lots of cutting fluid (water) or go the same route as HT and pre-machine everything prior to glue up. I used rasps because I felt it would be most efficient to rough out the basic shape, then sand to final shape. Tear out was a problem I did not anticipate. I'll investigate sanding methods more with this next build. I'm thinking fresh 40 or 50 grit and constant flushing of the paper with water to keep the material from clogging it up. Sanding blocks would be good too, to minimize contact area and maximize contact pressure. Will report back after the build is finished. I'm anticipating starting it in a few weeks once I get the funds to pick up all my components. This is that beast spey blank that I told you about. Hopefully I can have everything figured out before I get to work on that 14'er I'm picking up.

 

HT

 

If you can find the magic setup to shape these things I'll likely be asking you to do that for me as well. It sounds like it will be significantly faster than sandpaper even if I find the magic combination.

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HT

 

Just have to admire your engineering skills. I love that drawing simple as it might appear to some I could never draw it up so beautifully.

 

The handle you show is just world class craftsmanship.

I can recall the special jig you designed and made for the boring and turning of each shive very innovative.

Ok not yet ready to commit to syncork . If you can do same for cork and you have time and it is  financially viable for both of us  I would bite your arms off.

 

Mike 

 

PS. The latest cork I received is the best yet if expensive. If supply can be maintained  at that quality level one major supply headache is solved.

Bad cork equals a bad rod.

 

Edited by Mike Oliver

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7 hours ago, nesportsman said:

You order the carbon grips from NFC for it? Keep me updated, worried about it being slippery once you've got fish slime all over your hands...

My same thoughts too, but I do have it on a couple of casting rods and haven't had that issue come up.

 

I ordered from Mudhole and a friend at NFC gave me some to try.

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21 hours ago, HillTop said:

Here's an 8+ year old thread about grips, in particular Syncork and something Bob / Foulhook was working on.   Anyone here how his experimentation worked out ?     Tougher than ever to buy good cork these days.   Wondering if where any closer to a synthetic that meets the challenge.

 

HT

 

Janns Netcraft,50 unsorted rings for $26.30.   50% are good to excellent,25% are decent and the last 25% are meh to bad.Still getting 12.5" of 1st grade cork  and 6" of midgrade for that price.

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19 mins ago, slip n slide said:

Janns Netcraft,50 unsorted rings for $26.30.   50% are good to excellent,25% are decent and the last 25% are meh to bad.Still getting 12.5" of 1st grade cork  and 6" of midgrade for that price.

VS. 19.5" of syncork for the same price, 26 rings. All the same, all top quality. 

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17 mins ago, RedGreen said:

VS. 19.5" of syncork for the same price, 26 rings. All the same, all top quality. 

riiiight.......but it's not cork and that's the part of the conversation I'm participating in,not interested in syn

if it aint broke,why fix it? cork works for me and still get it at a decent price

Edited by slip n slide

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Just now, slip n slide said:

riiiight.......but it's not cork and that's the part of the conversation I'm participating in,not interested in syn....

Right, my apologies. Wasn't my intention to attack or be confrontational. Sorry about that

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I use narrow belt sander to form the handle and the handle gets perfectly centered over the blank and do just the final sanding using paper.

 

Esa

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6 hours ago, crunch said:

I use narrow belt sander to form the handle and the handle gets perfectly centered over the blank and do just the final sanding using paper.

 

Esa

Do you do this in conjunction with a lathe. Or are  you offering up the corks to belt and rotating blank by hand.

 

mike

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2 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

Do you do this in conjunction with a lathe. Or are  you offering up the corks to belt and rotating blank by hand.

 

mike

Yes Mike I have used a metall lathe to spin the blank but now after safety requlations it has a hatch and I can"t use hands anymore to hold tools. New design I am building use roller skate wheels to keep blank centered and an electric drill to spin the blank like in few Youtube DIY videos. It should be in use in two weeks and I will post photos.

 

Esa

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Ok You must have been doing this at  work and the Health and Ssfety Officer put the bar on you.

I understand reasons why but we have to use our hands close up to the revolving work piece to turn rod handles.

I will send you pics of my set up and the long mandrels I use to drive and support the blank.  I also have a rolling steady but two would be better.

Flex  Cost do a simple adjustable steady and you can buy a couple to work with an electric drill set up.

If you send me by pm your email address I can send pics of my tooling and set up.

 

Mike

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