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Raynman

Squaring off patio when walls aren't square

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Putting in a paver patio. Could use a little guidance.

 

The main "entry" to the patio will be from the kitchen (through french door). In the "Paint" drawing below, the patio is in red.

 

There is about three steps down from the kitchen to the patio.

 

If you are in the center of the patio, looking toward the kitchen, there is a sunroom to the right. That room is at ground level. The exterior kitchen wall and the exterior sunroom wall come together to form two of the boundaries for the patio. The walls, however, are slightly off square. (with the square I would say there is between a 1/8" to 1/4" gap at the far end of the square (15").

 

Similarly, the corner exterior wall of the sunroom is slightly off square.

 

We will be doing a soldier's run border for the pavers, then a modified herringbone.

 

Question...

 

I assume I should start with the border, then set the main part of the patio from center??? Is this right???

 

Do I set the border square against the kitchen wall, and leave a widening gap against the sunroom wall as I work my way out from the kitchen, so the patio is square even though the wall is not, or do I set the border flush against the exterior walls, and ignore the fact that the walls are slightly off square?

 

Also, anyone have a good place to buy polymeric sand for filling the joints in the essex/morris/union county area?

525

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Really all depends on how far out the sqaureness is from end to end. I'd have to think that going with the wall would be the worst option as this will carry the issue all over the place.

 

I'd either go square or better yet trim the soldier course pieces so that once installed against the wall they will create a square line...if it's only an inch or two out this shouldn't be too noticable. The only issue would be turning the corner on the sunroom with the soldier course. It might look funky with the miter cuts...I'd get an oversized paver for here so you can cut it to match both soldiers...ie if your using 4x8's get an 8x8 if they have them. This way if your soldier on one side is 6" and the other is still 8" then you cut the 8x8 to 8x6 to turn that corner...

525

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View PostI would forget about making it square. You will only be magnifying the problem to the naked eye. Make it match the existing wall and you will never see its wrong.

 

 

If he didnt wanna run a herringbone, I'd agree.

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Take the distance and half it, put in half bricks measured to actual width at the walls not square, and the other half bricks at the outside edge. The subtle difference in brick widths at the unsquare wall will disappear for the most part.

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View PostIf he didnt wanna run a herringbone, I'd agree.

 

 

I don't. Wife does. I lose.

 

So, given that I am running a herringbone, do you think Gemini's suggestion makes sense? It does to me. Since I have been obsessing about this all day (since determining the damn walls are out of square), it was a solution I also came up with and have been second guessing ever since.

 

Scotto - your suggestion sounds good. I just don't understand it. confused.gifconfused.gif If you have a moment, would you mind amplifying for those of us that are terminally stupid when it comes to basic DIY.

 

Oh, and thanks guys. Appreciate the suggestions.

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Yupyup, Raynman. I would do it like Gemini laid out. 'Cept I'm more particular, and would cut the bricks in sets of ten or twenty, depending on the length and distance out of square.

 

And I'd probably figure the angle and cut the bricks that way. smile.gif

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Sorry... I am assuming that you will out whole bricks along the wall and then cut bricks for the out of whack part. If you halve the bricks, putting one half there against the wall and the other half on the other side of the porch, you can trim bricks to fit specifically their spot and still maintain and even first row. So some may be 1/2 bricks, some 6/10 bricks. But in the end the patio side of the bricks all line up.

 

For instance. I put 12 inch tiles in my bathroom. I ended up with a less than a full tile at the wall. So I took that extra area, say 7 inches and cut the tiles to 3.5 inches and put them on each end of the room. It balanced the floor out with out making slivers of tiles. at one side of the wall. does that make any sense at all?

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Some things to consider...By just laying against the wall you could have 2 issues that may look very clunky depending on the severity of the out of squareness. A, you'd have to trim every single piece that ends just inside the soldier coarse, on an angle to fit (even with this the angles may give a clunky look along the boarders. If you lay out a herringbone ideally you'd only have some 1/2 cuts to do. B, the corner soldiers are going to be off. With a soldier coarse and a herringbone I really think your best options are what I suggested before or simply run it square and live with the gap at the wall. Perhaps a nice flower box would hide it.

525

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Ran out of the sand that was delivered (I think the company may have shorted me - I ordered plenty of sand (3 yards) and gravel (9 yards), and had gravel to spare, but no more sand). Still have another 1/4 + of the patio to do. Gray sections in drawing are completed. White are not.

 

The delivery charge is gonna be a killer for another yard of sand and I may not need that much though the delivery charge plus a yard would be cheaper than alternative 2 below (buy the sand in bags), The place I bought the sand charges $30/yd plus $80 for delivery. Must purchase by the yard.

 

The real problem, however, is that I doubt I will be able to arrange for delivery before Monday, at the earliest. I can easily finish this patio tomorrow if I have the sand. The rest of the weekend is fully booked up. I need to get this done to move on to the next item on the honey do list.

 

Two questions:

 

1. Is it a really silly idea to go to a big box store and buy some sand to finish the patio? I can get .5 cu ft bags of sand for about $3.70. (Vigaro paver sand). The cost will come to about $200 total for a yard. (After tipping the driver, the difference is about 70 bucks)

 

2. The real big issue. Is the difference in sand going to cause problems with settling?

 

As always, I appreciate your advice.

525

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