Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Spigola

NRA

Rate this topic

55 posts in this topic

View PostInteresting. I've been a member since I was 16 (40 now). The constant solicitation for $$$ is kind of annoying, but I understand it. Aside from membership dues, they need a way to raise cash for lobbying and raising awareness on issues. Everyone from 2A advocates to the major anti-gun groups have heard of them and respect the power they have as both a special interest and voting bloc. You need not donate with every solicitation and honestly, I'll send an additional $20-$30 a year beyond my dues withat least one promotion/contest they are running.

 

Don't know exactly what you mean by a gun nut, but I believe the ability to bear arms in one's self defense is a right acknowledged by the Bill or Rights but not bestowed upon us by it. and like any other right, no licensed permission is required.

 

I look at it as such.

We have a right to freedom of speech. Should we need to be trained how to utilize this right through some licensing program before we would be able to express it? Therefore, we could mitigate many libel/slander lawsuits before they occur by ensuring individuals understand exactly what their "Right" entails.

 

We have a right to practice religion. Should we require that people research several faiths before choosing to practice one? Should we mandate education and licensing to ensure they don't use their faith to steal, cheat or lie?

 

Both of these would be considered ridiculous. Rationally, it's as simple as saying that you have the right, but if you use the right to commit a crime, you must deal with the consequences...which should be severe. Attempting to legislate the right to bear arms is as ridiculous as trying to legislate conditions for any other right.

 

RR, I stand by my earlier comments. You are 40, I am 64. I spent 37 years in law enforcement. I don't make my comments based on theory but on reality. I was in several shootings in the worst neighborhoods on the streets of Brooklyn, NY and am probably more pro gun than 95% of the people in the US.

 

Let me try to answer some of your questions.

 

Gun Nut = those people who walk into a gun shop dressed in camo from head to toe. and talk about how far they can pick off a man with such and such rifle and what is the most powerful handgun with most stopping power, etc etc. A very large percentage of these so called, self-proclaimed bad-asses were never in the military or in LE. They also were never in a balls to the wall shootout or had to take a man's life or had to bury a friend after a shootout. I've been there/done that so I call those guys Gun nuts!, among other names. I am not, however, saying they are BGs but these are the individuals who give the average gun owner a bad image in the eyes of the society we live in. Some times in this life we have to learn that being a bit less radical is a good thing and will get us more than standing out in a crowd.

 

And, you are right, no licensing was required under the 2nd A. But that was in the days of muskets, long rifles, and flintlock pistols. And, people had a bit more integrity back then. Society has since changed and there are numerous little handguns that can be concealed that can, and do, cause much mayhem in our society by sociopaths. Those sociopaths are the ones that, I feel, should not be permitted to own firearms. Letting a psycho individual, or a former criminal, own and carry a firearm is analagous to letting a sex offender become a grade school teacher. To me licensing is the only way to keep a lethal weapon out of the hands of someone who shouldn't be carrying one.

 

Yes, I know legal owned guns are very rarely involved in crimes and the bad guys get them elsewhere. That is why stricter enforcement of our current laws are necessary. You catch a BG with a gun, so long, jail for a long time with no parole. You get a guy buying guns for BGs in straw sales or a dealer who does it knowingly, good bye, jail for a long time.

 

I'll give you a classic situation that involved a friend of mine years ago which involved a cop, a BG and a good guy. the cop, an old friend of mine, was on patrol in lower Manhattan, in a "good" neighborhood. He an partner get a call of robbery in progress. They roll up, my friend rolls out of car and BG starts shooting. My friend shoots back and empties .38 at BG. My friend can't find his partner and sees her in car for a reason we won't discuss. My friend dashes behind the car to try to reload. BG advances, armed with 9MM and is ready to kill my friend. Suddenly, and you can't make this up, a passerby tosses my friend a licensed .357 he is carrying. My friend pops out of cover and puts the kabosh on the bad guy. One BG to the morgue.

 

What's my point? BG had illegal gun, good guy had legal gun. Thank God for legal gun. I BELIEVE IN THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. But not by BGs. Gotta' try to weed them out. That is why most states require licensing to carry a concealed weapon.

 

You gotta' understand, this isn't the colonies in 1780 this is the US in 2009. It's perfectly fine for a person to own and carry guns, as long as that person does not have any mental or criminal problems, in order to protect him/herself from BGs who want to do them harm. I, as well as any active or former LEOs, know that the police can't be in all places at all times and that the citizenry has a right to defend themselves. What I believe in is trying to keep the BGs from getting guns.

 

You compare freedom of speech and religion. Ridiculous!!! You can't take someone's life with stupid verbalization or praying him to death. Yes, rhetoric and religion can be inflammatory and cause wars and death, as we are seeing in today's world, but not in a face to face spontaneous confrontation, unless one of the people is a total moron and allows the situation to escalate.

 

Finally, I realize that I am living in a dream world because I am asare that the left/socialist factor in our society/political structure is attempting to disarm us. It is one of the first things a government needs to do to control a society. I am not a stupid or narrow minded individual. That is the fine line we walk with this issue.

 

Bottom line is we are on the same side with slightly different view points and I think that anyone who has "been there/done that" can see my viewpoint very clearly.

 

Spig

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They're planing a million gun owner/pro 2A walk this spring in D.C.. it can be found if you goggle it up. I suggest attending if at all possible. It will be a historical day.

me and a few friends are planning on attending icon14.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spig,

There is something to be said about the overused phrase "An armed society is a polite society". You paint the society of early America as having more integrity. While this might be true, and I don't necessarily believe that it is, I don't think this was due to character of the individual as opposed to that of the society as a whole.

 

Back in times of muskets and blackpowder, up until the 20th cent, if you committed a crime with a gun, you swung by the neck...no sympathy for the criminal like today. We live in a time where an inner city youth who cites a tough life for committing a gun crime can get off with "Time served and probation". But take then you have the suburban professional who was distracted by an impromptu conversation at the range and forgets to unchamber the round in his handgun before packing it up and heading home. He gets pulled over, arrested and becomes a guest of the state for years. For example how does 3 years for a BB gun sound link?

 

I have absolutely no problem with laws that punish criminals and I believe these are the laws that are too lax. We have a law in this state(NJ) that adds penalties to anyone that is found to have hollowpoints while commiting a crime. The aforementioned individual would receive a stiffer sentance for this. We also have a law as of the result of the Graves act that states there be a minimum of 3yrs sentence for a gun related crime. The individual in the link above fell "Victim" to this law. Yet there are true criminals in this state that get off with a mere slap on the wrist.

 

This state, and now the federal gov., believes that they will solve the problem by passing laws that put 2A restrictions on everyone. They seem to forget that the laws that place restrictions on the BG already exist. They need to enforce them not pass more.

 

I have respect for you and your chosen profession. What you call reality, is, in fact, your experience. My reality is based on my own experiences which are no less valid than yours. You might hard pressed to believe that a youth of 40 has seen his share of the worst the human race has to offer, but you'd be wrong. I also understand that self preservation as well as that of you friends is of paramount importance. Yet, and I mean no disrespect by this, it was your "Chosen" profession and as such you had the ability to leave it. As a retired LEO you can still carry(don't know if it is the case in NYC). Do you? If so, do feel a slight sense a slightly greater sense of security when you're with your family and things around you just don't seem "Right"...know you carry the means to protect them should the need arise?

 

Do you believe in racial profiling such as mandating more thorough searches of certain people during traffic stops or airport security? When is the arguement to deny another's rights for the benefit of ones own security, valid? Do we give IQ tests to individuals and grant/deny certain right based on what we believe they are capable of? I own guns and have never been involved in any crime whatsoever. I have been trained in the safe use of my firearms since I was young and I stay current on my training. I respect my fellow neighbors and believe myself to be an upstanding citizen. I want to be able to protect my family from situations outside of my control. Why does the state say I can't, yet as a retired LEO, you can? How does telling me I can't, cause the BGs to disarm themselves?

 

It seems we choose to disagree and that's just fine. It's one of the rights we both have.icon14.gif

For now I'm heading out to the range to sight in a sweet little .22 rifle I picked up the other day.beers.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RR, I agree with you 100%. All I am saying is that there is a definite need to try to screen out the psycho and th BG who wants to be armed.

 

BTW, I was licensed when I lived in NY. Since moving to NJ, I have discovered that this state thinks it is exempt from the Federal Law Enforcement Safety Act that was passed in DC in 2004. The law allows active LEOs and retired LEOs to carry nationwide in order to be sort of a backup PD if needed. Well, I am playing by the rule of the FLEOSA and get qualified as required but am still in violation of NJ law.headscratch.gif

 

I found out that NJ had a law passed in April 2008 that allows retired LEOs from other states who now live in NJ to be issued a carry license. However, the semantics used in the application make it 99.9% impossible to meet the requirements. I too must go to Superior Court to get a judgement over ruled. Doesn't mean I don't have my personal sidearm readily available in my residence though.

 

Remember RR, we are on the same side but just express it a bit differently.

 

Spigsmile.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
View Post

 

Gun Nut = those people who walk into a gun shop dressed in camo from head to toe. and talk about how far they can pick off a man with such and such rifle and what is the most powerful handgun with most stopping power, etc etc. A very large percentage of these so called, self-proclaimed bad-asses were never in the military or in LE. They also were never in a balls to the wall shootout or had to take a man's life or had to bury a friend after a shootout. I've been there/done that so I call those guys Gun nuts!

 

 

I've never met anyone like this and I'd bet jokers like this make up less a tiny fraction of gun owners. The reason I'm pointing this out is that we don't know who's reading this and the last thing that we need is this type of portrayal by one of our own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
View Post

Bottom line is we are on the same side with slightly different view points and I think that anyone who has "been there/done that" can see my viewpoint very clearly.

Spig

 

View PostSpig,

 

It seems we choose to disagree and that's just fine. It's one of the rights we both have.icon14.gif

 

Glad to see both sound and articulate arguments.....and both agreements ending it as well! Hats off to both!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
View Post

 

DOAF.....sorry but last time I checked its your party chipping away at gun ownership rights.........dont liek that fact, then dont vote for them but dont whine when its pointed out what your party and people who hold the majority of your beleifs do.......but facts are facts......libs go after gun rights far far more often that conservaticves do.

 

Hey....don't vote for that new New York Senator....Psst....she's a Democrat. cwm27.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a retired LEO I obtained a carry permit as required by law. 2 months later my wife received a phone call from the licensing bureau asking if I had or was physically abusing her. Big brother definately thinks a lot of us armed citizens, don't theyrolleyes.gif ? We need the NRA, and whether you agree with all or some of what they promote you should be a member if you own a firearm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
View PostI am a liberal and just joined the NRA. .

 

Good for you!

 

Gun ownership is a LIBERAL VALUE.

 

By the way, here is a portrait of some white liberal "gun nuts."

 

declaration_of_independence_by_john_trum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
View Postcard carrying member living in the middle of the anti gun freaks of San Francisco.

 

Despair not.

 

You have some pro-gun brethren and sisters amongst you. And yes, believe it or not, NRA supports these like-minded folks.

 

Rejoice.

 

pinkpistols5207.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.