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bbuzzi

What color do fish see once a fly gets wet?

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Here is a simple question:

 

What color do fish see once a fly gets wet?

 

I was talking with Ted Patlen as a tying event this weekend and he mentioned that when a material gets we it changes color. When I was dying tails today this came to mind. When you dye tails, you have to remember that the dry color is different than the wet color. So a tail that looks dark pink will turn into light pink when it drys.

 

So when we wet a fly does it change color and should we be thinking about it? I am only talking about color, not size, shape, or other characteristics.

 

Brad

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View PostHere is a simple question:

 

What color do fish see once a fly gets wet?

 

I was talking with Ted Patlen as a tying event this weekend and he mentioned that when a material gets we it changes color. When I was dying tails today this came to mind. When you dye tails, you have to remember that the dry color is different than the wet color. So a tail that looks dark pink will turn into light pink when it drys.

 

So when we wet a fly does it change color and should we be thinking about it? I am only talking about color, not size, shape, or other characteristics.

 

Brad

 

 

I'm not sure they see color at all, maybe just shading and reflection...some scientists say yes, others no and others say some can and some can't...

Who knows? I tried asking them (the fish) but they seem to be tight lipped on the subject.....wink.gif

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In my own little fish's eye world a fish doesn't see one color...they see shades, and hues, and flashes of blended color. They see lines (like a spearing or silverside) or spots (like a bunker) and eyes. They see solhouettes, shapes, length and width in vague terms. The colors blend and are not sharp or vivid.

 

Just my thoughts....

 

Alan

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I think you are both on the right track on what I am thinking. My point is when you take say a dry Olive Bucktail it gives Olive one level of intensity or say in your term a shade, but when you wet it does that shade change in the water? So is a Hot Pink Color good because when it gets wet it casts the same shad as a, pick a color, Purple. I hope you follow what I am getting at. If this is the case how many colors of material do we need since fish don't see Color as we do, but shades?

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Great question for thought. Goes good with my post about why fish target flies, and the eye color thread.

 

http://www.stripersonline.com/surfta...d.php?t=636764

 

http://www.stripersonline.com/surfta...d.php?t=634840

 

I don't think it can be positively answered. We see things in air, and even in air at varying amounts of light, colors appear different. Same thing in water, but as the depth increases, with the lack of light, colors change drastically. Of course we make these comparisons based on what we see, and can't possibly know what the fish really see.

 

If you really wanted to limit the colors, then it seems to me you might not be far off, to just stick to either black or white for most of your tying. I've had good success with both black & white, and use them a lot, but, conditions always change & sometimes other colors just work better for me for whatever reasons. I can't explain it, and I don't think anyone really can with any high degree of certainty.

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bbuzzi, I think I know what you are getting at with this thought as it has crossed my mind as well.

 

While I do not know if colors change a noticeable amount to fish while they are submerged, I think the best way to compensate for any change that may occur is to tie based on what the targeted bait looks like out of the water. If I can simulate those colors of the bait (out of the water) with the fly (also out of the water), then even if they do change once in the water, they will change in the same way, if they do change at all.... (That sentence is nowhere near as clear as I would like!) I hope you can grasp what I'm saying in that jumble of words.

 

Apart from tying from a photo of the bait you are imitating out of the water, the only other way to ensure accuracy from changes in colors resulting from the water would be to tie underwater down where the fish are. kooky.gif

 

Maybe not such a great idea.

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bb---interesting thought, we know for sure they react to motion as well as to size. I think that water clarity combined with the baits color results in the reaction. If there hitting blue I'm not throwing tan.

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Two answers to this, both valid. Three, actually.

 

1) as discussed, they see tones of B/W but their eyes may not translate color densities as ours do. A human might see red and green of a certain density as as the same, in the partial dark of 15' of seawater; a striper's eye may not.

2) I don't assume that they see no color. There is enough visible light in the top 15' of the water column that is of greatest interest to fly anglers to permit color perception. The fact that so many fish show color tones indicates color has some significance - it would be meaningless if they couldn't see it. Even if they can only see it some of the time, color isn't likely to be meaningless.

3) Just like someone wearing sheer fabric, when the fly gets wet, the underwear shows through. That's why it's still worthwhile to wrap your hook with tinsel even though you can't see it through the feathers of a dry Deceiver, so to speak.

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View Post Just like someone wearing sheer fabric, when the fly gets wet, the underwear shows through.

 

 

I see London, I see France...... biggrin.gif

 

Hey, I'm in the third grade all over again redface.gifwink.gif

 

Alan

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There are saltwater fish that do see in color. Else, why would certain species exhibit sexual dimorphism? Bright coloration of fishes, as in birds, can impart a degree of fitness upon a sex, and therefore make them more desirable as a mate to pass along their genes.

 

Bright coloration is indicative of health, the brighter the better, the better a species is able to forage, food energy helps develop coloration, the greater the degree of coloration, the greater chance their offspring have to survive.

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I've been wondering about this for a while.

Water absorbs light and filters it. The deeper the water the more color is gone, leaving the least absorbed color.

 

I gin clear water, we see reds go first and appear as black to our eye, which is pretty sensitive to nuance and can make up for it a bit and envision what that color really may be. When you see the clear deep shots, its all blue, that's the last remaining color. When you see a colorful macro shot, its the camera's lighting that fills in the filtered missing colors and allows the full spectrum.

 

"Deep (clear) water is very transparent to the blue portion of the light spectrum and less transparent to the green, yellow, red, and violet portions. In the more turbid coastal waters, green and yellow light penetrates to greater depths than does blue."

 

"Depth affects not only the quantity of light but also the quality of light. Once light passes from air to water, different wavelengths of its spectrum are absorbed as a function of the color of the water and depth. Even in the clearest tropical sea, water serves as a powerful cyan (blue-green) filter. Natural full-spectrum photographs can be taken only with available light in very shallow depths. In ideal daylight conditions and clear ocean water, photographic film fails to record red at about 15 ft (4.5 m) in depth. Orange disappears at 30 ft (9 m), yellow at 60 ft (18 m), green at 80 ft (24 m), and at greater depth only blue and black are recorded on film. To restore color, underwater photographers must use artificial light."

 

Seems our NJ water filters differently than the Caribbean. Another factor

besides depth is distance, which multiplies the effect. Point is I really

wonder what then stripers can and can't see, and if pattern is more critical

than color. For example, what is pink in 10 of NJ surf from 6 feet away? I'm guessing a mild black. If anyone's diving, would be interesting to take a fly or 2 down with you and actually see what it looks like.

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I don't think wet bucktail changes at all when wet. My fleyes look the same in the water as in the vise. Red head and white deceiver still looks the same wet or dry. Other colors the same thing. Feathers and bucktail don't seem to change any either.

 

Synthetics, especially fine fiber types might. I never noticed this IN THE WATER. Maybe wet OUT of the water but had never noticed a shift in hue in the past. At least nothing ever caught my eye.

 

I doubt there is much to be concerned about.

 

BobPop

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Since colors start dropping out the deeper we get, what would happen if we tied files with only one color, but used different shades of the color, say from a Dark Blue to a Medium Blue to a Light Blue down to White. We could create the different shades and get the same graduation/tones? Just a thought.

 

I still like tying flies that match what I am trying to make, but will take liberties with the colors and flash. I also think that given what has been said above and what may follow, Color is only one factor, and because of it being so, it lets us, the fly tier, make some real cool and fun flies that catch fish.

 

Brad

 

PS - Why don't fish see that silver shiny thing sticking out of the fly or that big round thing with the line attached. It's not like the doctor prescribed it.

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i read a book on this; somthin like ' through the fish's eye' ;try to find it.cwm15.gif

depth filters light and certain colors are lost- like red; it may appear as black at deeper depth.

so color tones vary a lot and siloette and brightness seem important. sure would be nice to have only a few colors to consider. i have old friends that say any color- as long as it has a lot of chartruse; another would only use smoke colored all year.confused.gif

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