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400 or 500 HR Club

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For years, hitting 400 homeruns meant an automatic induction into the hall of fame for anyone not named Dave Kingman. Then the steriod era came and it seems the bar moved up to 500 HR. Now that it's come to light that steroids may have played a roll, would you (if you were a sports writer who could vote) reconsider 400 as the general bench mark for HR consideration?

 

Of course if you agreed to reconsider 400 HR, you'd have some lattitude to still dismiss the absolutely sucky hitters (as Kingman was)...but remember although no one as bad as Kingman has been voted in (as far as I know), there are a number of hitters who weren't really great hitters overall, but have eclipsed the 400 HR mark who've been inducted. So if you chose to look at 400 as the magic number, you'd have to vote in anyone who absolutely didn't suck with the bat when he wasn't hitting home runs. Is that something you're willing to do these days now that there are more hitters who hit for both power and average?

 

I recall in the 70's, I could count on one hand those who could hit 30 or more HR's and hit over .300. Nowadays, a player as such would still be considered a 'stand out', but not really that uncommon.

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View Postwhat about Billy Williams , Andre Dawson , Duke Snider , and Darrel Evans .

 

 

 

Two of those guys are in, if I'm not mistaken. Dawson and Evans retired in the late 80's and early 90's and should be in as far as I'm concerned. I'd push even more so for Dawson as 'The Hawk' was one fearsome hitter (Evans was no chump either)...From a purely statistical point of view, Dawson dominated during a good portion of his generation.

 

Was he 'the most' feared hitter of his generation? Not really...but while various players from Strawberry in the mid 80's to McGuire, Canseco and Griffey a little later on got top billing, he was quietly hitting putting up big numbers while playing for some rather poor teams in his days (Montreal and Chicago - I don't even count his little Sox stint since he was a mere shadow of himself).

 

The other reason I'd put these guys in is because the pitching hadn't started to sink to the 'suck' levels that it is these days. There are a lot of 'good' hitters these days who'll almost always get stumped by the better pitchers - even going back to Mark McGuire, who was so bad against good pitching, I honestly believe with all he's 'accomplished', he probably considers his one successful at bat against a top flight pitcher (a titantic HR vs Randy Johnson in Seattle while he still played with Oakland) his career highlight.

 

Bonds (for all the negative we can say about him), at least could hit which ever pitcher was on the mound, whether it was Clemens, Smoltz, Schilling, Johnson, etc...Steriods gave him a power advantage - but it didn't give him the pure skills to hit good pitchers. If we disregarded the steriod thing, I would put Bonds in way before I'd put McGuire in...because he could get his bat on the ball with authority against any pitcher he's faced...

 

And back on topic, that's why I think Dawson should get in - he hit all the pitchers of his time.

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No it would still be 500 hrs but along with that you have to look at other things...hits,ave,obp,rbi's etc.In 70's power hitters were power hitters,you got hrs and strikeouts or hits and BA,but rarely both.Nowadays I don't think there are that many players hitting 30+ hrs and batting over 300.The only ones I can think of offhand are Vlad,Manny,Pujols,Arod and ChipperJones that do it regularly.You'll get a couple of others every year but they're usually one and done.

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Pujols, Wright, H. Ramirez in the NL

 

Rodriguez, Huff, Hamilton in the AL

 

Only guys in the 30HR, .300 club last year. One guy had a good year, two are sure fire hall of famers and the other 3 are VERY good young guys.

 

In 07 Arod and Ortiz in the AL, and Lee, Wright, Pujols, Holliday in the NL.

 

Pre-steriod testing these numbers were quite different so I'm hopeful that testing is having an effect. I pray that 30HR and .300Ave will become the benchmark again.

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View PostPujols, Wright, H. Ramirez in the NL

 

Rodriguez, Huff, Hamilton in the AL

 

Only guys in the 30HR, .300 club last year. One guy had a good year, two are sure fire hall of famers and the other 3 are VERY good young guys.

 

In 07 Arod and Ortiz in the AL, and Lee, Wright, Pujols, Holliday in the NL.

 

Pre-steriod testing these numbers were quite different so I'm hopeful that testing is having an effect. I pray that 30HR and .300Ave will become the benchmark again.

 

 

I was thinking Kevin Youkilis, but he missed this year by one HR. Regarding Manny Ramirez, his combined numbers between BOS and LA put him in that over 30 HR/over .300 average club (he hit .299 with 20 HRs for BOS and .396 with 17 HR for LA).

 

I can't tell if Mark Teixeira's combined ATL/LAA numbers put him in that club - he hit .283 with 27 HRs for ATL and .358 with 13 HRs for LAA. HR-wise, he's over thirty. But given his number of at bats with each club, I think he's over .300 but not sure. If my math is right, combined, he had 574 at bats and 177 hits for a .308 average.

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View PostDuke does comes up alot as not being in the HOF for some reason,but he was elected in the class of 1980.

 

View PostI know Billy Williams is in. Alot of people have said Snider is in as well.

 

i stand corrected . Williams was inducted in '87 . i would've bet that Williams never made it in .smile.gif

 

he must have made it right at the end of his eligibility . i remember him being a subject of debate back then .

 

the veterans commitee must have voted Snider in .

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View PostI was thinking Kevin Youkilis, but he missed this year by one HR. Regarding Manny Ramirez, his combined numbers between BOS and LA put him in that over 30 HR/over .300 average club (he hit .299 with 20 HRs for BOS and .396 with 17 HR for LA).

 

 

I can't tell if Mark Teixeira's combined ATL/LAA numbers put him in that club - he hit .283 with 27 HRs for ATL and .358 with 13 HRs for LAA. HR-wise, he's over thirty. But given his number of at bats with each club, I think he's over .300 but not sure. If my math is right, combined, he had 574 at bats and 177 hits for a .308 average.

 

Yep, forgot about Manny..or did I choose to forget about Manny smile.gif

 

Can't believe I forgot about Tex though...

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View PostI am shocked that for as much as his sucked it and dogged it, that he did just as good as Youkilis who actually tried hard.

 

 

 

Manny is considered one of the top right handed hitters in the last 30 years. His numbers should blow Youkilis outta the water.

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