Storage

[RegDunlop]

I just started tying, and I have a basic question.

 

Is it okay to store my materials in airtight food storage containers? or do they need air because they are natural materials? I'm talking about things like bucktails and feathers etc

 

thanks

 

and if anybody could recomend some good basic tools (manufactureres models etc) right now im using either a regular vise or vise grips and regular thread so thats where I'm at

[M. saxatilis]

I just started tying, and I have a basic question.

 

Is it okay to store my materials in airtight food storage containers? or do they need air because they are natural materials? I'm talking about things like bucktails and feathers etc

 

thanks

 

and if anybody could recomend some good basic tools (manufactureres models etc) right now im using either a regular vise or vise grips and regular thread so thats where I'm at

 

RegDun,

To answer your first question the short answer is Yes. I believe that your materials will do just fine in an airtight storage container. A quick search of this forum using "storage of materials / bucktails / feathers" will turn up a plethora of tips, hints, and suggestions on different ways to secure your materials from both the elements and insects.

 

As far as tools, materials and a vice goes. If I were to buy a ew vice today, knowing what I know, I would invest in a Renzetti Saltwater Traveler. I currently tie on an HMH spartan and it is about the same amount of money. Nice vice, I love it but I have also outgrown it.

 

I will wait for others to chime in on their preference of manufacturers & model of tools. Up to this point I have typically used whatever I could get my hands on, now though, I am ready to make upgrades to better tools.

[From2]

Hey Reg,

 

I dont think airtight containers should be a problem, most of the materials I have purchased came in ziplock type bags which I assume were airtight. I store the majority of my materials in old babywipe containers, i have little kids so there are plenty around. I also use a plastic shoe box sized container to keep the larger materials like bucktails, some people keep bills in them my wife uses them to store her "offseason" shoes For the smaller items like hooks, dumbell eyes, thread i use a plastic container made by Plano, its about 16"Wx8"Dx3"H and has inserts to adjust the size of the compartments. This is available at Home Depot for less than $5, more expensive at tackle store.

 

I also am a novice, have been at it for about a year. I purchased the Renzetti Traveler and its great, i saw one for sale within the past week at Orvis, Basspro or Cabelas, I dont remeber exactly where. All my other stuff, scissors, bodkin etc.. are made by Dr. Slick, that is the brand that has been most accesable and they have served me well. I see you are in NYC, there is a shop across from Madison Square Park (Madison and 21st?) that has a decent selection.

 

Hope that helps.

[rob snowhite]

keep the materials dry and away from pests. the material is no longer living so doesn't need to respire, however, it is still natural material and is a food source for fungus, moths, etc

 

i use a regal vise, holds the hook still better than any other vise i've used

i want a rite bobbin after using one recently. great ergonomics and spool tension

[flashback max]

There's no one right answer for all materials. Stuff like rabbit strips etc that have been tanned are usually OK to leave unsealed. They should be kept away from light though. However materials like loose feathers and hackle necks that still might have some "meat" on them should be sealed up good(once they're dry). I've had bugs get into a hackle neck and completely destroy it. Keeping a clean tying area helps a lot.

 

If you have some material you've collected yourself be very careful you don't have some little friends along for the ride. A lot of things have more fleas and ticks than you'd dare imagine. One way you can help them commit suicide is to put them in the freezer for a few hours, pull them out for a while, then stick them back in. They can't seem to handle the up and down. Or if the wife isn't watching give them a quick 10 second zapping in the microwave.

[gregorjim]

Reg...Best way to preserve material from moths & other crittersis with a cedar closet floor lining kit...About $20 from home depot..Comes in 4" x 6' lenghts..Cut pieces to fit in containers or drawers etc..Believe me . you'll end up using it all eventually..Protects all the expensive feathers & it smells better than moth balls & hardly takes up any room...Jim

[peregrines]

RegDunlop-

 

You've gotten good advice on storage and vices. I'll just throw out some more suggestions, but realize people have their own preferences for tools, vises, thread etc.

 

Vises- do some research if you haven't already on different types of vises and features, and come back here with more questions as they come up. Look into differences like 360 rotary (you can view your fly on all sides) and "true" or In-line rotary" where you can actually spin the jaws to wind stuff on the shank of the hook. Having a vise with a rotary function is very helpful for tying saltwater stuff, but you may not need a "true rotary". You may find that a vise with an adjustable jaw angle (being able to move the jaws up or down) and a 360 rotary are preferable to a "true rotary" with a fixed jaw angle. A lot of it comes down to individual preference. Also look into the pros and cons of a C- clamp vs pedestal base. The most important thing though is to make sure the jaws will hold the size hooks you plan to tie. (I know it sounds obvious, but not all vises will handle large saltwater hooks.) In some vises the standard jaws will work, sometimes you need saltwater jaws at an additional price, and some brands may not be able to hold large SW hooks at all.

 

Once you have a sense of the features you want, and put together a budget, start looking around at some in person to see if they work for you. Some examples of stuff that may or may not be issues for you might be stuff like enough clearance for you to work around, shiny glare off polished metal, fussy adjustments for different hook sizes, use of allen wrenches for adjustments, weight and sturdiness. There's no right or wrong, just examples of things to consider. Less expensive asian imports look tempting, but usually have poor machining, soft metal jaws etc and can give you fits, especially on large hooks.

 

Budget also plays a role of course, and you asked for specific names, so here's a few I'd look at in different price ranges, but other folks may have other favorites not on this list. Most of these offer a either a c-clamp or pedestal base option at the same price unless noted:

 

Apex Anvil is about 100 bucks, is 360 rotary and includes BOTH a c-clamp and a pedestal. It's a good sturdy vise and holds hook sizes 32-7/0. Requires a hex key (comes with it) for adjusting jaw angle.

 

At about 150 there's a few choices including:

 

 

Renzetti Salt Water Traveller. A true rotary, specify right or left hand model, you may want to consider cam jaw option for a few more bucks. Holds hooks from size 4-8/0. (The "regular" Traveller doesn't hold hooks over 2/0 well).

 

Peak Rotary another true rotary, but you'd probably want the optional salt water jaws to tie up to 6/0 for an additional 35 bucks or so and the optional brass screws to replace the standard delrin (plastic) ones. (Regular jaws hold hooks 24-2/0)

 

Regal Rotary (with c-clamp, base model is more) a 360 rotary, with adjustable jaw angle, no adjustment for different size hooks, jaws will hold 20 - 6/0 rock solid. I've been using one for 30 years and it's still going strong.

 

Over 200

 

 

Dyna King Barracuda Junior TREKKER about 210, true rotary, holds hooks size 22-8/0. Lighter weight and more compact for traveling than the Barracuda, but not as travel friendly (heavier, bulkier) as the Renzetti Traveler. But some folks find they like the more open design (more room for tying) of the DK Trekker over the Renzetti Traveller.

 

Over 300

 

 

Dyna King Barracuda about 350 true rotary, hooks 24-10/0. Heavier, sturdier than the Trekker, a sweet but expensive vise.

 

Lot's of other options out there as well, but I don't think you could go wrong with any of the above.

 

You asked about thread and tools. You should use tying thread as opposed to regular sewing thread. For saltwater I mostly use Danvilles Flat Waxed Nylon for most stuff size 1 and larger. It's strong and tends to make a less bulky head than round thread but folks use Danvilles 3/0 Pre Waxed Monocord. (Other options are UNI Big Fly or Uni Waxed 3/0). For smaller saltwater stuff like shrimp patterns size 2-6 I use Danville Prewaxed 6/0 or UNI waxed 6/0 which is thinner. These threads all come in a range of colors. I mostly use black, chartreuse, olive and white.

 

Tools- You'll need a bobbin, a decent pair of scissors and a bodkin at a minimum:

 

Bobbin- having a few is good because it can be a PITA to rethread everytime you switch colors. I'd start off with a few metal tube Griffin bobbins for about 7 bucks each, and gradually add a few ceramic tube, or ceramic tip

 

 

bobbins down the road. They will tend to cut thread less than the metal tubes, and you can rotate your metal ones to colors or threads sizes you use less often. The ceramic ones run from 13-25 bucks. Brands to look for are Griffin, Dr Slick, Materelli, Wasatch and Tiemco for the ceramics.

 

Scissors, you want a good pair of four inch ones for about 15 (Dr Slick or Anvil) and a cheap pair of sewing or needle work scissors from around the house or any brand 3 bucks, for cutting bucktail and other rough stuff so you don't ruin the edge on your good ones.

 

Bodkin- just a needle on a stick, any brand, get one with a hex shaft so it doesn't roll off your table 2 bucks or put a sewing needle in a wine cork with a pair of pliers.

 

Head cement any brand or Sally Hansen's Hard As Nails

 

Helpful stuff:

 

 

Whip finisher for tying off. You can do it by hand, but this will let you get in tight places. The one to get is a Materelli for 15 or a "Materelli style" import for 7

 

"English style" Hackle pliers, any brand 2 bucks or plastic EZ pushbutton plier gizmos from Radio Shack used in electronics. (I've had better luck with them than the other black hackle pliers made out of a flat strip of metal FWIW) Helps wind hackle around and other stuff like chenille bodies etc. around the hook shank.

 

I use a pair of needle nose pliers to pinch down barbs, and Luhr Jensen Hook File (the one with a yellow plastic handle for about 6 bucks) to put an edge on hooks before tying. A plastic grocery bag makes a good waste catcher, Slip one handle over the vise stem to throw trimmings in to keep crap off the floor.

 

You'll probably want to add other stuff down the road like a magnum hair stacker if you do a lot of stuff with bucktail. Get one that's big enough to stack saltwater size stuff, not a small weeny trout size one, with flared edges to make it easier to feed hair in. Griffin makes a good blue brass one for about 12.

 

If you're just starting out you might want to get to the International Fly Tying Symposium at the Doubletree Hotel in Somerset NJ coming up soon later this month in Nov. (there's a recent thread with the dates in this forum) You'll see a lot of tying demos, be able to browse all kinds of material and equipment, and see tables set up by groups like NYC TU, Salty Fly Rodders based in Queens, LI Fly Fishers based in Nassau County. Joining one of them is a great way to learn a ton about tying and FF, and will get you off to a great start. Keep asking questions though as they come up. Lot's of helpful and very talented tyers on this board.

 

Hope this helps.

 

peregrines

[dwilliamsceg]

I just started tying, and I have a basic question.

 

Is it okay to store my materials in airtight food storage containers? or do they need air because they are natural materials? I'm talking about things like bucktails and feathers etc

 

thanks

 

and if anybody could recomend some good basic tools (manufactureres models etc) right now im using either a regular vise or vise grips and regular thread so thats where I'm at

 

My recommendation on a vise is this one from Cabelas - http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...=cat20534&rid=

 

It works well enough to get you started and it is low cost. By the time you learn the ropes you will know enough about what you want in a higher quality vise to make a good decision. Also, if you find that you cannot tie often or get bored, you are not out much money.

[dwilliamsceg]

P.S. I have the el cheapo Cabelas one. It aint fancy but I have tied at least 200 flies and jigs on it. It is wearing out but it has served well. My step up will be a Peak.

[dwilliamsceg]

RegDunlop-

 

You've gotten good advice on storage and vices. I'll just throw out some more suggestions, but realize people have their own preferences for tools, vises, thread etc.

 

Vises- do some research if you haven't already on different types of vises and features, and come back here with more questions as they come up. Look into differences like 360 rotary (you can view your fly on all sides) and "true" or In-line rotary" where you can actually spin the jaws to wind stuff on the shank of the hook. Having a vise with a rotary function is very helpful for tying saltwater stuff, but you may not need a "true rotary". You may find that a vise with an adjustable jaw angle (being able to move the jaws up or down) and a 360 rotary are preferable to a "true rotary" with a fixed jaw angle. A lot of it comes down to individual preference. Also look into the pros and cons of a C- clamp vs pedestal base. The most important thing though is to make sure the jaws will hold the size hooks you plan to tie. (I know it sounds obvious, but not all vises will handle large saltwater hooks.) In some vises the standard jaws will work, sometimes you need saltwater jaws at an additional price, and some brands may not be able to hold large SW hooks at all.

 

Once you have a sense of the features you want, and put together a budget, start looking around at some in person to see if they work for you. Some examples of stuff that may or may not be issues for you might be stuff like enough clearance for you to work around, shiny glare off polished metal, fussy adjustments for different hook sizes, use of allen wrenches for adjustments, weight and sturdiness. There's no right or wrong, just examples of things to consider. Less expensive asian imports look tempting, but usually have poor machining, soft metal jaws etc and can give you fits, especially on large hooks.

 

Budget also plays a role of course, and you asked for specific names, so here's a few I'd look at in different price ranges, but other folks may have other favorites not on this list. Most of these offer a either a c-clamp or pedestal base option at the same price unless noted:

 

Apex Anvil is about 100 bucks, is 360 rotary and includes BOTH a c-clamp and a pedestal. It's a good sturdy vise and holds hook sizes 32-7/0. Requires a hex key (comes with it) for adjusting jaw angle.

 

At about 150 there's a few choices including:

Renzetti Salt Water Traveller. A true rotary, specify right or left hand model, you may want to consider cam jaw option for a few more bucks. Holds hooks from size 4-8/0. (The "regular" Traveller doesn't hold hooks over 2/0 well).

 

Peak Rotary another true rotary, but you'd probably want the optional salt water jaws to tie up to 6/0 for an additional 35 bucks or so and the optional brass screws to replace the standard delrin (plastic) ones. (Regular jaws hold hooks 24-2/0)

 

Regal Rotary (with c-clamp, base model is more) a 360 rotary, with adjustable jaw angle, no adjustment for different size hooks, jaws will hold 20 - 6/0 rock solid. I've been using one for 30 years and it's still going strong.

 

Over 200

Dyna King Barracuda Junior TREKKER about 210, true rotary, holds hooks size 22-8/0. Lighter weight and more compact for traveling than the Barracuda, but not as travel friendly (heavier, bulkier) as the Renzetti Traveler. But some folks find they like the more open design (more room for tying) of the DK Trekker over the Renzetti Traveller.

 

Over 300

Dyna King Barracuda about 350 true rotary, hooks 24-10/0. Heavier, sturdier than the Trekker, a sweet but expensive vise.

 

Lot's of other options out there as well, but I don't think you could go wrong with any of the above.

 

You asked about thread and tools. You should use tying thread as opposed to regular sewing thread. For saltwater I mostly use Danvilles Flat Waxed Nylon for most stuff size 1 and larger. It's strong and tends to make a less bulky head than round thread but folks use Danvilles 3/0 Pre Waxed Monocord. (Other options are UNI Big Fly or Uni Waxed 3/0). For smaller saltwater stuff like shrimp patterns size 2-6 I use Danville Prewaxed 6/0 or UNI waxed 6/0 which is thinner. These threads all come in a range of colors. I mostly use black, chartreuse, olive and white.

 

Tools- You'll need a bobbin, a decent pair of scissors and a bodkin at a minimum:

 

Bobbin- having a few is good because it can be a PITA to rethread everytime you switch colors. I'd start off with a few metal tube Griffin bobbins for about 7 bucks each, and gradually add a few ceramic tube, or ceramic tip

bobbins down the road. They will tend to cut thread less than the metal tubes, and you can rotate your metal ones to colors or threads sizes you use less often. The ceramic ones run from 13-25 bucks. Brands to look for are Griffin, Dr Slick, Materelli, Wasatch and Tiemco for the ceramics.

 

Scissors, you want a good pair of four inch ones for about 15 (Dr Slick or Anvil) and a cheap pair of sewing or needle work scissors from around the house or any brand 3 bucks, for cutting bucktail and other rough stuff so you don't ruin the edge on your good ones.

 

Bodkin- just a needle on a stick, any brand, get one with a hex shaft so it doesn't roll off your table 2 bucks or put a sewing needle in a wine cork with a pair of pliers.

 

Head cement any brand or Sally Hansen's Hard As Nails

 

Helpful stuff:

Whip finisher for tying off. You can do it by hand, but this will let you get in tight places. The one to get is a Materelli for 15 or a "Materelli style" import for 7

 

"English style" Hackle pliers, any brand 2 bucks or plastic EZ pushbutton plier gizmos from Radio Shack used in electronics. (I've had better luck with them than the other black hackle pliers made out of a flat strip of metal FWIW) Helps wind hackle around and other stuff like chenille bodies etc. around the hook shank.

 

I use a pair of needle nose pliers to pinch down barbs, and Luhr Jensen Hook File (the one with a yellow plastic handle for about 6 bucks) to put an edge on hooks before tying. A plastic grocery bag makes a good waste catcher, Slip one handle over the vise stem to throw trimmings in to keep crap off the floor.

 

You'll probably want to add other stuff down the road like a magnum hair stacker if you do a lot of stuff with bucktail. Get one that's big enough to stack saltwater size stuff, not a small weeny trout size one, with flared edges to make it easier to feed hair in. Griffin makes a good blue brass one for about 12.

 

If you're just starting out you might want to get to the International Fly Tying Symposium at the Doubletree Hotel in Somerset NJ coming up soon later this month in Nov. (there's a recent thread with the dates in this forum) You'll see a lot of tying demos, be able to browse all kinds of material and equipment, and see tables set up by groups like NYC TU, Salty Fly Rodders based in Queens, LI Fly Fishers based in Nassau County. Joining one of them is a great way to learn a ton about tying and FF, and will get you off to a great start. Keep asking questions though as they come up. Lot's of helpful and very talented tyers on this board.

 

Hope this helps.

 

peregrines

 

The above response is a testament to the efficacy of this forum. If we have a "response of the month", this should be nominated. I wish I had read this when I was starting!

[RegDunlop]

Thanks for all the great advice, thats what makes SOL such a great site