Why bailout the automakers

[Plugged]

100,000 people directly employed and tens of thousands more employed in related industries. Critics say they failed to see or address the fuel issues in time and were to slow to address the unions. The automakers do have plans for more fuel efficient cars but they will take time to produce - but there are plans.

 

But why should we bail them out if they havent addressed the unions?

 

 

Example - At Ford Motor Co. they called it "Blue," a team set up around the year 2000 to design an array of small, fuel-efficient cars to compete with the Japanese. It didn't get far because no one could figure out how to make money on low-priced compacts with Ford's high labor costs.

[Little]

Cuz union guys from Dee troit vote for Democrats. If you are having a problem figuring this whole thing out, feel free to pm.

[Punk Freud]

Because the CEOs and stockholders don't want to accept the risks they took.

They would rather the public fund their failure that accept personal responsibility.

 

It's not really that hard to see, all across the US economy the gamblers of

Wall street, and self-serving CEOs are sucking the taxpayer dry.

Whats another 50 billion on top of 700 billion in bailouts

 

Oh, and those same CEOs and free marketeer have been fighting against

unions, screwed people out of pensions, built crappy cars all the while

taking tens of millions in PERSONAL compensation... do the math

[Wraith]

100,000 people directly employed and tens of thousands more employed in related industries. Critics say they failed to see or address the fuel issues in time and were to slow to address the unions. The automakers do have plans for more fuel efficient cars but they will take time to produce - but there are plans.

 

 

But why should we bail them out if they havent addressed the unions?

 

 

Example - At Ford Motor Co. they called it "Blue," a team set up around the year 2000 to design an array of small, fuel-efficient cars to compete with the Japanese. It didn't get far because no one could figure out how to make money on low-priced compacts with Ford's high labor costs.

 

At that time, which 'class' of vehicle was in the greatest demand, small fuel efficient cars, or SUV/Trucks? How long will you stay in business making a product people do not want? Demand makes supply.

[Kings over Queens]

If the public allowed the CEO's to run the company into the ground, then the company should be alloed to be run into the ground.

 

Executive compensation is public knowlege.

 

The last 2 government bailouts shouldn't have happened. At least in AIG's case, the government has a shot...a glimmer of hope, of getting some of our money back. The banking bill was an disgrace.

 

No more bailouts.

[Triet]

Unions killed the companies, only right that unions should suffer the consequences.

[Robert Williams]

Government bailouts suck. There's just no other way to put it. The question is whether they suck more than the alternative and that has to be thought through very carefully because not all industries are created equal.

 

We bailed out Chrysler once and it turned out to be a very good move. We bailed out the airline industry. I think we can all admit we needed that. The problems we would have without passenger and cargo planes moving people around and taking care of business would be disastrous.

 

So should we bail out the auto industry?

 

If we don't, do they fail and go out of business? We're not going to be getting any new auto companies for some time to come. It's so expensive to get into that industry that it's almost impossible for a startup to survive - more than a few have tried and most of us can't name one of them.

 

So do we need an auto industry? Should we just import all our vehicles from Japan? Do we need the jobs? Is the risk of being held hostage by auto makers in foreign countries just as dangerous as being held hostage by oil producers in foreign countries?

 

Would it be a handout or, like Chrysler, a loan to be paid back?

 

We have to be careful not to cut off our nose to spite our face when we're thinking about industry bailouts. We might not like how things have gone, decisions and blunders made.... but do we want to just let them croak?

 

And if we do spend the money to "bail them out" on a loan, will it work and will they pay us back?

 

This isn't a very easy situation and we need to think really hard and really quick and make a decision and hope it's the right one. I'm glad I don't have to make the call because any call made will be subject to infinite criticism.

[hispls]

Well, every year when Ford made a profit, they didn't give me anythng....I don't see why I need to be responsible for their losses all of a sudden.

 

If they were worth "bailing out" wouldn't Warren Buffet or someone buy them up? Or just buy bonds from them to help them get back into the game?

 

The fact is, we cannot compete with foreign slave labor. If we have no tarrifs on imports, reward companies who "outsource" jobs, and have a continual stream of oppressive regulations, taxes, and other barriers to doing business.

 

The parasite eventually gets so engorged and invasive that it will kill the host.

[Punk Freud]

The parasite eventually gets so engorged and invasive that it will kill the host.

 

History has shown capitalism is a parasite.

Just go back to the robber barrons up the present day CEOs

Effing parasites.

[Robert Williams]

History has shown capitalism is a parasite.

Just go back to the robber barrons up the present day CEOs

Effing parasites.

 

You tell 'em, Komrade!

[Plugged]

And socialism is the best alternative?

[Aquacide]

Unions killed the companies, only right that unions should suffer the consequences.

 

 

Japan, Germany, sweden and Korea's auto companies are 100% unionized.

 

BMW, Mercedes and Audi all have unions on their company boards...

try again.

 

 

the problem for US auto makers is that they have two main markets - the big gas guzzling US market based on power and size, and the rest of the world - where style, speed & economy dominate.

 

whereas VW, Saab, Volvo, Toyota, Honda etc have one global market,the US built big dodge trucks and Ford F350 etc etc just don't sell overseas, so US automakers have more costs.

 

you'd have to change US consumers habits for the US to compete.

 

Ford is slightly insulated because it sells compacts produced in the UK and Germany to Europe, Africa and the Far East.

 

 

if there is a bail out it should be performance based and no CEO bonuses or promises of further cash, and the govt should be entitled to a future share of profits.

[Plugged]

Japan, Germany, sweden and Korea's auto companies are 100% unionized.

 

BMW, Mercedes and Audi all have unions on their company boards...

try again.

 

 

What percent of those companies profits go to union payouts versus US based automakers - are the pay and benefit structures even comparable - some hard numbers might make this point a little more understandable.

[Wraith]

What percent of those companies profits go to union payouts versus US based automakers - are the pay and benefit structures even comparable - some hard numbers might make this point a little more understandable.

 

You just disturbed a giant nest of ..........................Crickets................ .....

[Aquacide]

What percent of those companies profits go to union payouts versus US based automakers - are the pay and benefit structures even comparable - some hard numbers might make this point a little more understandable.

 

 

their pay and benefits are way above US ones.

 

they are also more extensive - average paid vacation in Germany is around 35 days, 25 in the UK, non-contrib private healthcare too.

 

they are also highly incentivised - profit shares etc.

 

this problem is not about costs, but about sales - or lack of them. it doesn't matter how cheap you make a F350 or its similar ilk, they won't sell in Europe, Asia or the Far East.

 

price ain't the issue.