IFTIA Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 I just cast my first butterfly jig knockoffs out of a bondo mold (thanks for the bondo idea!) They came out great except they are way softer than the originals. I used spare lead flashing and wood gutter goosenecks. It poured well but cutting off the sprues bent the crap out of em. Any ideas on additives or alloy compositions before I start winging it? IFTIA, Buzzards Bay I Fish, Therefore I Am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baddog23 Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 TRY GETTING SOME OLD TIRE WEIGHTS THEY ARE LEAD WITH TIN WICH MAKES THEM A LITTLE HARDER. BUT MELT THEM OUTSIDE CAUSE THEY CAN MAKE A REAL BIG STINK IF ANY RUBBER IS LEFT ON THEM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Thomas Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 IFTIA, I'd agree with the wheel weights idea. I have melted them down and they seem pretty solid. Now, I just melt them down and then add 1/2 plumbers lead or flashing lead I get from a roofer. Work great. On an aside, I've been toying around with the same idea. Question...how are you planning on adding the eyelets to hold the hooks? That's been my biggest question...do I bend my stainless plug wire or is there a better way? Thanks and good luck! Bob ThomasSOL#162 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregorjim Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Just melt the tire weights..It's lead with antimony to harden the lead.. If you add tin , You''ll lighten the lure quite a bit , unless thats your purpose?The original lure weighing 1.2 to 5/8 oz will be at 3/4 oz which does'nt effect the action ,but will give you more distance..And if you're copying say a krok which only has holes, which makes it difficult to attach split rings, you only add the brass eyelet round part without the (leg ) parts & press it behind the lure in the mold..When the bondo Or Silicone is poured in , it copys it as part of the lure..Just make sure you're pressing the lure & eyelwt in halfway, so its a 50/50 seam Forgot to say use a little clay to fill the hole in thelure (back) & the casting material will show it as solid lure & only copy the round eyelet..This makes it much easier for split rings..Finda chroming shop that will plate them or paint them...I prefer the Silicone ( 400 degree heat type) over the bondo..I have molds that as long as you don't over use them , will last forever..Just pour 3-4 blanks & let molds cool as you work with the blanks,,, ( cleaning , Buffing ) etc...then go back to pouring again... otherwise you can damage the molds.. Bondo is less expensive but really does'nt last long & does'nt copy as well..Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFTIA Posted June 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Thanks for the input! I made a Bondo mold with the original eyelet in place then hand fabbed eyelets out of 1/16" 304 SS rod in the approximate shape found in the Stamina catalog ( an open figure 8 shape ) then placed the two eyelets in the mold and cast them in place. Easy! Bending the eyelets is a pain so I think I'll only place the head eyelet next run. Since I'll rig it with a split ring and solid ring there is little stress on the eyelet/jig connection. Made my own stingers which attach to the solid ring along with the line to the reel so all the force is transmitted from line to 200# braided stinger. The few tire shops I've asked so far are unwilling to part with their used weights. Gotta find a source. In a bullet casting site they talked about using tire weights or lead/antimony 3% (for hardness) /tin 2%(for pourability) alloy then increasing the hardness by waterquenching. One more thing to try. What kind of silicone did you use for your mold? Would GE Door & Window work? IFTIA, Buzzards Bay I Fish, Therefore I Am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregorjim Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 IFTIA... The product I'm talking about is purchased on the west coast Douglass & Sturgess 1023 Factory st. Richmond California 94801 phone#1-888-278-7883 they will ship products . Last time i purchased product , cost was about $20 without shipping make sure you ask for silicone that with stands 400 degree heat....which is = SR-2258 1 lb kit which includes hardner...If lure is about 2 oz....this will do two molds..Just mark main container & smaller hardner into 1/ 4 ths , & mix thoughly & use like bondo...Should harden in 12 hrs...Make sure you use vaseline as a releasing agent so it won't stick together. Then repeate with second half..Take your time & check the process of each step...If you don't you will have one solid piece instead of two halfs.Due to forgeting releasing agent......when done & mold is completly hard , then scrub molds with brush & cleanser to remove any vaseline residue , dry & add candle smoke to interior of mold..This gives a good release for lures... Remember . don't keep pouring lures more than 3-4 at a time as this will over heat the rubber....I usually pour 3 molds at a time & go about cleaning the blanks while the molds cool on cold concrete floor... Do this & you'll never have any problems & your molds will last forever...Not as bondo , which burns out & does'nt copy as presise as Silicone does...Any questions , just ask.......Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted June 14, 2008 Report Share Posted June 14, 2008 IFTIA... The product I'm talking about is purchased on the west coast Douglass & Sturgess 1023 Factory st. Richmond California 94801 phone#1-888-278-7883 they will ship products . Last time i purchased product , cost was about $20 without shipping make sure you ask for silicone that with stands 400 degree heat....which is = SR-2258 1 lb kit which includes hardner...If lure is about 2 oz....this will do two molds..Just mark main container & smaller hardner into 1/ 4 ths , & mix thoughly & use like bondo...Should harden in 12 hrs...Make sure you use vaseline as a releasing agent so it won't stick together. Then repeate with second half..Take your time & check the process of each step...If you don't you will have one solid piece instead of two halfs.Due to forgeting releasing agent......when done & mold is completly hard , then scrub molds with brush & cleanser to remove any vaseline residue , dry & add candle smoke to interior of mold..This gives a good release for lures... Remember . don't keep pouring lures more than 3-4 at a time as this will over heat the rubber....I usually pour 3 molds at a time & go about cleaning the blanks while the molds cool on cold concrete floor... Do this & you'll never have any problems & your molds will last forever...Not as bondo , which burns out & does'nt copy as presise as Silicone does...Any questions , just ask.......Jim Dow Corning 3120 (Red) is a premier High Temp Silicone. http://www.dowcorning.com/applications/DistributorFinder/Default.aspx?prod_id=01015770&prod_ids=PROD&countr y=USA&language=E Bondo works well for quick small runs as it sets up in minutes and can be used very quickly. I like to rotate my molds as I pour. Get 3 or 4 you want to cast into, alternate pours and that will give them enough cooling time. Mike P (Husky) Hammer Mechanic, 1st class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFTIA Posted June 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 Cool! My dad worked for Dow Corning for 17 years. You'd think I woulda thought of that I've made slipcasting molds for clay out of plaster of paris so this is same/same. I've stopped in about 8 service stations and so far it's: ""just got rid of 'em all last week", "We reuse them", "Oh, we don't balance any of em"!Yikes. Thanks for all your hhelp. My buddy the Fishin Physician was out on Cape Cod Bay last week and all the bass we had in Buzzards Bay moved thru the Canal. He jigged a bunch of 25-30# bass and started chasing Small Bluefin Tuna. Or what he thought were Small BFT. 120 minutes and 160# later he doesn't want to play that game anymore. The footballs we were funnin with last year got bigger! IFTIA, Buzzards Bay I Fish, Therefore I Am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregorjim Posted June 17, 2008 Report Share Posted June 17, 2008 Just keep trying your stations...Maybe offer to give him some lures when done.I' ve made lures for friends & only ask them to try & get the tire weights from their local stations..I now have 2 -5 gal buckets full...The cost for shipping would be way too much...But its the best for pouring metal lures...Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFTIA Posted June 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Getting there. Got about 25 jigs cast along with bank & egg sinkers. DO-IT molds are cool! Tho they do warn against casting tire weights They seem to work fine. I kept asking and now have started to run into lead everywhere. Could be cuz that's all I seem to talk about these days. I love the early stages of a new love affair! Dow 3120 RTV should show up in UPS today. The Bondo is already showing signs of wear. Thanks for all of your help. IFTIA, Buzzards Bay I Fish, Therefore I Am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted June 20, 2008 Report Share Posted June 20, 2008 Getting there. Got about 25 jigs cast along with bank & egg sinkers. DO-IT molds are cool! Tho they do warn against casting tire weights They seem to work fine. I kept asking and now have started to run into lead everywhere. Could be cuz that's all I seem to talk about these days. I love the early stages of a new love affair! Dow 3120 RTV should show up in UPS today. The Bondo is already showing signs of wear. Thanks for all of your help. Be advised that Dow 3120 is mixed at a 10-1 ratio, IIRC, so a digital, or triple beam scale is pretty much required. Mike P (Husky) Hammer Mechanic, 1st class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregorjim Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Tire weights aren't really for sliding sinkers or molds that are hard to pull out such as pins etc..Thats for softer pure lead..Save the tire weights for casting the copy casting lures , which Have to be un bendable...& asd far as measuring its not that critical one pound = 4 pours which is two molds...Just mark the bottles into fourths & mix well & wipe the sides as you do with epoxy or it does'nt mix completly,,,,Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onshore1ft Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Just be real careful doing this kind of stuff guys, don't want to be a killjoy but the fumes from this kind of work can knock you flat on your back very quick, I have a friend that worked in casting who is very sick. Sure you are already using respirators and working in a very well ventilated and dry area but still be very wary. The founder of breakaway recently retired citing lead poisoning. Just a heads up thats all, I'd love to see the finished product. I'm considering trying to make some of those Maria jigs, they are the dogs and very expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jig Man Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 ... DO-IT molds are cool! Tho they do warn against casting tire weights .... Due to the other metals in the tire weights, they may not set up right for some molds. They'll work fine for bank sinkers and similar molds, but sometimes set up too fast in smaller jig molds. If the tire weights are working fine for the molds you are using, go for it. Just be sure to ventilate your work area well and wear a respirator. Jigman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky Posted June 22, 2008 Report Share Posted June 22, 2008 Tire weights aren't really for sliding sinkers or molds that are hard to pull out such as pins etc..Thats for softer pure lead..Save the tire weights for casting the copy casting lures , which Have to be un bendable...& asd far as measuring its not that critical one pound = 4 pours which is two molds...Just mark the bottles into fourths & mix well & wipe the sides as you do with epoxy or it does'nt mix completly,,,,Jim FYI, the 3120 is a very thick RTV and its' catalyst comes in a small squeeze tube. As it is of a high shore hardness, I can get many more than 4 molds from a lb. Once I encapsulate the model, I add about 1/8' to 1/4" more. When it's cures, I silicone it to a piece of wood which acts as a support and as insulation. The mold below is over 20 years old and is one of my earlier RTV projects (3+ oz sinker). Mike P (Husky) Hammer Mechanic, 1st class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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