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CTaylor

TFO 12 12 rod

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Picked up this rod about 3 weeks ago...I really like it...but it is a beast and, for me, it is taking some time getting used to the whole 2 handed casting thing...(I am quite amazed how much I can rely on a haul to compensate for bad timing or sloppy mechanics)...I started out at about 70ft with huge nasty loops and slowly worked up to topping out at about 125ft with, for the most part, tight loops. I just can't seem to get more line out? I do notice that at the end of the cast the loop abruptly loses its energy (doesn't dump out like your typical shooting head, just loses energy)...if I could keep that energy in the cast I think I could hit the backing at 150ft...I know the rod has it in there. I am not sure if it is technique or the head is not heavy enough. I am using the Airflo 11/12 beach line (great running line by the way) and the head is 35' 525gr(?)...75-100 more grains would probably pull the rest of the line...but 525 is tiring enough IMO.

 

Any of you guys using two-handers have suggestions?

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Sorry. i don't have a suggestion, but I did get to throw that rod in the parking lot of my local shop. In 2 tries I was out of room in the lot. Through it over a dumpster.

 

Good luck and have fun with it.

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ST,

 

if you are getting 125' regularly, you are doing pretty darn good and you now just need to refine your two-handed technique. The Airflo line should be plenty heavy for that rod and perhaps a bit too heavy. I know what you mean about that non-stretch running line - very well behaved!smile.gif

 

It is difficult to teach with words only and especially on an internet bulletin board like this one so I will be brief and not give you too many suggestions at once.

 

Two things I would like to have you concentrate on:

 

1. use a very light grip on the upper hand. Muscle memory from using a one hander will try to make you squeeze too hard. As a learning exercise, use only your index finger and thumb and hold the line with the middle finger. This will eliminate the possibility of gripping too hard with the upper hand.

 

2. use the lower hand to make rapid movements with a quick stop. The lower hand movement takes the place of the double haul when using a two-hander. The faster the movement and the quicker the stop, the greater the line speed and therefore distance.

 

Concentrate on these two things, practice some more, and get back to me!biggrin.gif

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Thanks Bill...I notice a lot of my problem with the 2 hander is, like you said, muscle memory from using a one hander...my first problem with the huge nasty loops seemed to be that i was pushing with my upper hand/arm to much, relaxing my upper arm, and coming down about mid way on the upper grip seemed to help, and I noticed I did not need to put as much effort into the cast...I still do it when I am not concentrating on it and I get ugly tailing loops...another thing that seemed to help was, what seemed to me, an over-exaggerated drift, seemed very high as apposed to a one hander as I am used to, but it seemed to translate the energy better into tighter loops. I have to work on that bottom hand pull, very awkward, and sometimes the line gets away form me when I hold it in my middle finger but I read that that is the best place for it and you reinforced that...

 

thanks for the tips...I will keep you posted...I can feel the power in the rod, I can't wait to utilize if efficiently.

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One change will give you longer distance with no change in casting energy.

 

Your head length is too short at 35ft. The longer the amount of line you can false cast, the longer the cast. When the forward loop unrolls the cast is over and the line falls to the water.

 

The Rio Outbound is 37.5ft and is still rather short for a 12ft two handed rod. You should be able to aerialize about 40ft-42ft of head. On the final back cast shoot some line, about 10ft+ this takes some experimenting for your style of casting. Concentrate on smoothness, not power, and you should improve distance. Overhead casting a two handed rod takes some timing adjustment, use the lower hand for the quick speed-up-and-stop motion and I usually split 50-50 between the upper and lower hands for the rod stroke.

 

Regards,

FK

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ST - when you get good, which I don't think will be long, you'll probably need two fingers (middle and ring) clamped down on the line to keep it from slipping under the full rod load you are going to have. For now the middle finger should be fine and it works with the exercise I suggested.

 

Keep practicing and enjoy it!

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View PostYou should be able to aerialize about 40ft-42ft of head.

 

With this rod 40-42 would not be a problem at all...even 55 would be comfortable on a nice day...but I only fish nice days 15% of the timecwm27.gif...the rest of the time it seems to be howlin'...and SWFF has taught me the less line out, the less time in the air, the less headaches. I have gotten used to 30' shooting heads and have no problem casting them 100-110ft...doing that with a regular line I have to aerialize 40-45ft on a one hand rod (which I really enjoy doing) but nature never wants to cooperate.

I like the 35' head I think it is practical, and just for the running line alone I want to keep the line. I am pretty sure the rod is up to the task...the operator is the weak link herewink.gif

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Have had the 12x12 for 2yrs and find the less effort put into the cast the more sucessful the cast. Key for me is the left hand pull on the cast and only one false cast. I am a righty for casting. I use a airflow beach intermediate which is terrific. I have also used this rod on my flatsboat with a 700 grain sinker which works very well. It's some powerful rod. JP

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It's the quick stop and lower hand tug towards the chest snap that sends the line out, it's very important to allow these rods to fully load on the back cast.Let the rod do all the work,learn to shoot some line on the back cast, and don't try to over power the cast, to much power will cause the rod to over flex which will result in a lose of power.The cast stroke must be straight back and straight forward with no arc in the stroke what so ever. The 35 foot Airflo and the 37.5 foot Rio were designed for these rods I have both ,the Airflo is 150 ft and the Rio is 135 ft. It's a real kick to cast 150' and have backing come flying off your reel.biggrin.gif

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View Postlearn to shoot some line on the back cast

 

OK questions, about how much line do you want to shoot...and is this amount of line added on to the line with 4' overhang...or do you keep the head/running line joint inside the rod tip, shoot out line to the 4' - 5' overhang mark and then forward cast? So far, my experience with this rod and line, anything over 5' for overhang starts to get dicey as far as hinging goes...but I haven't really tried to shoot line on the final backcast.

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View PostOK questions, about how much line do you want to shoot...and is this amount of line added on to the line with 4' overhang...or do you keep the head/running line joint inside the rod tip, shoot out line to the 4' - 5' overhang mark and then forward cast? So far, my experience with this rod and line, anything over 5' for overhang starts to get dicey as far as hinging goes...but I haven't really tried to shoot line on the final backcast.

 

I don't know how many false casts/backcasts you are making, but in my opinion anything over one is too much, lift the line off the water, backcast allow several feet( the amount to shoot will lengthen as you gain experience 4 ft is all I shoot ) to shoot with the backcast than start your forward cast. I have found along with others who cast the overhead 2handers multiple backcasts are over kill and lead to over loading the rod which like I stated before robs the rod of power. A lot of people when they first approach casting a overhead 2hander feel its all fast muscle type of casting when in fact it's the complete opposite, it's slower deliberate casting strokes,let the grain weight of the line load the rod,it's the sudden stop on the forward stroke that unleashes the load of the rod and sends it sailing out. As far as overhang I generally keep the head running line joint out about a foot from the rod tip

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It is really nice to see the positive change on boards like this in regards to two-handed casting, compared to only a few short years ago, and the quality of the replies really shows just how much folks have learned about them.

 

Average casts of 125' plus a leader are pretty impressive, and if you can do that regularly, I would say you are probably performing the mechanics pretty correctly. It is pretty tough to diagnose casting problems without seeing them, but I think I know what is happening here.

 

As someone previously mentioned, when the loop is done unrolling, your cast is pretty much over. It sounds like your loop happens to be unrolling at the 125' mark, and trust me, if it unrolls at 125', nothing is going to make that cast go further.

 

So, the solution is to delay the unrolling of the loop until it is further out. As a caster, there are only a couple of ways you can approach this, but your line's taper design has a lot to do with it as well.

 

This was, in my opinion, the really groundbreaking thing about the Rio Outbound lines when they hit the market. I don't think many people understood it at the time, because frankly, most people simply can't cast far enough to realize the benefit. People just thought of it as an integrated shooting head design, but the new head taper they employed on those lines drastically delayed the turnover of the head. This delayed turnover makes it easier to cast very long distances. I have unfortunately never cast the AirFlo beach lines, so I can't honestly say if they are similar.

 

Having said all that, every rod and line combination will have a, " Sweet spot," where just the right amount of speed and power will combine to achieve maximum distance, by getting the head to complete turning over when the desired amount of line has traveled through the guides. You may need to speed up your cast, or slow it down, or apply more pressure or less.

 

Assuming that you are performing the basic mechanics correctly, I would try experimenting with these factors.

 

Also, I am pretty certain that you may need to aim your cast higher than normal for really long casting. We have a tendency to aim the loop four to six feet above the water, which works fine when you are casting eighty feet, but not when you are casting 150'. If you are throwing a baseball from second to home plate, you can send it on a pretty flat trajectory, but if you are trying to get it home from center field, it needs some loft to overcome the effects of gravity. I believe it is the same with a fly line at distances over 120' or so.

 

Please let us know what you find out.

 

Jay Horton

 

Advisory Staff TFO

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