Field & Stream: Can NJ Ban... Fishing?

[apmaurosr]

FYI

 

 

Ant

 

Field and Stream has coverage of the impact of bills A275 and S2041 on thier website: Can New Jersey Ban Hunting and Fishing?

 

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(**edited - we don't allow commercial links here - selling advertising or products makes it a commercial site - TimS)

 

 

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Text from the Feild and Stream article:

 

 

If you think your right to hunt is iron clad or written in stone, you should talk to New Jersey bear hunters, whose season was infamously shot down by politicians. Now, a pair of anti-hunting legislators are taking aim at all outdoorsmen-and potentially providing a model by which other states could move to effectively ban hunting and fishing.

 

From the Asbury Park Press:

 

Instituting a law to prohibit fishing would be unimaginable only a generation ago. Fishing is so intertwined in New Jersey's recreational and economic past and present that it is hard to imagine living without it. Sadly, Monmouth County politicians may outlaw this essential part of our outdoor heritage.

 

Legislative bills A-3275 and S-2041 have been introduced by Assemblyman Michael Panter and Sen. Ellen Karcher, both D-Monmouth. These bills will eliminate freshwater fishing, hunting and trapping in New Jersey. It will be achieved by changing the structure of the Fish and Game Council.

[kermic]

Holy crap...!!

 

This is unbelievable! These people are out of their minds.. Why don't I just sit on my couch with my kids and play video games all day... oh yeah- they'll ban that too soon! The fact that these notions are even entertained is crazy. These idiots who don't eat meat feel that anyone who does shouldn't hunt or fish for it is nuts. These people have forgotten the food chain. Eat your veggies and shut up!!

 

I'm just loosing my mind here. We are loosing places to fish left and right, now the talk of just banning it outright is just the beginning. I really feel that my young kids will not be able to pick up a rod & reel when they are my age as it will be illegal. They will not be able to pick up a rifle or bow and hunt with it in 10 years. This is a scary thought. Sounds crazy... I don't know!

[TimS]

Excuse me a second while I use the lump on my shoulders:

 

(from the Asbury Park Press)Legislative bills A-3275 and S-2041 have been introduced by Assemblyman Michael Panter and Sen. Ellen Karcher, both D-Monmouth. These bills will eliminate freshwater fishing, hunting and trapping in New Jersey. It will be achieved by changing the structure of the Fish and Game Council.

I've read the bills - I just read them again. While I'm opposed to it, changing the structure of the Fish and Game Council does not eliminate freshwater fishing, hunting and trapping in NJ. Again, even though I'm opposed to the bills, this is a bold faced lie by the APP. The bills would not elimiate freshwater fishing or hunting or trapping in NJ. I think the bills should be fought and defeated, but for a paper to make such knowingly false statements is a pretty poor and dishonest tactic for doing so.

 

TimS

[tsafishingguy]

That law would never stand, especially in Monmouth County where recreational fishing is a HUGE part of the economy. It's plain b.s. I subscribe to field and stream and sometimes they put out articles like this just to get a few more people on their site or to read their magazine. That proposed law has no chance.

[Sudsy]

That law would never stand, especially in Monmouth County where recreational fishing is a HUGE part of the economy. It's plain b.s. I subscribe to field and stream and sometimes they put out articles like this just to get a few more people on their site or to read their magazine. That proposed law has no chance.

 

The problem is real, it's caused by the mass immigration over the past 15 years of people from urban areas (in our case NY) to the NJ suburbs and rural areas. They did not grow up with a history of hunting and fishing behind them and think nothing of ramming their beliefs down our throughts.

 

 

My neighborhood has been completely over run (I'm now the only person I know here that was born in NJ) My neighbors have called me a redneck because I surf fish - for crying out loud, I grew up in "Wonder Years" like Monmouth county NJ, far from the "country". If they could stop me from "hurting the poor fish" they would.

 

 

Under the new law fishing won't be banned right away, however this law does offer a strong foothold for the MPA backers.

 

 

The biggest immediate problem with this bill is it's ability to give the antis the power to seriously curtail hunting in NJ. As more and more people from urban areas move into our state they gain the political strength to dictate major changes in our rural/suburban way of life. The bear hunt is a prime example. Ask the people that live in bear country if they are for or against the hunt, overwhelmingly the answer is pro. Unfortunately the urbanites in our state say "But the bears are sooo cute, you can't kill them" and that's the end of any chance of controlling a rapidly out of control bear population.

 

 

It's happening with deer as well. Towns like Wall Twp are banning all hunting, even bow hunting - even bow hunting on your own property. Right now Wall Twp is suing the county trying to stop a hunt on a county owned park that's absolutely over run with deer.

 

 

The antis work by taking little steps - right now hunting is the main target, but just a few years from now we could see the Shrewsbury rocks declared a MPA (Marine Protection Area) and find ourselves denied the right to fish there.

 

 

Cut n past from the World Wildlife Federations website (the type of people that this law may place on our Fish and Wildlife council) :

 

 

A vital tool for conservation. Only 0.6% of the world's oceans are protected, and the vast majority of existing marine parks and reserves suffer from little or no effective management. This is despite the fact that MPAs not only help safeguard biodiversity, they can also benefit fisheries and people.

 

 

WWF's Global Marine Programme is working towards a network of effectively managed, ecologically representative Marine Protected Areas (MPAs) covering at least 10% of the world's seas.

 

 

Our work to redress the current inadequate protection of our oceans and coasts involves:

 

 

* Establishing and implementing a network of ecologically representative, well-managed MPAs

 

 

* Improving the management of existing MPAs

 

 

* Reducing the threat of external threats, such as human activities and climate change, to MPAs

[BassHunter]

Anyone got a link to those bills, I would like to read them...

[zaq123]

Here we go:

 

 

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bi...00/3275_I1.HTM

 

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bi...00/2041_I1.HTM

 

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bills/bills0001.asp

[Slacker]

Straight from Michael Panter, sponsor of the legislation, "This bill would provide that the code is for the purpose of providing a properly managed and balanced system, and would delete the consideration for use and development of fish and game for public recreation and food supply."

 

That's the telling statement. If "public recreation" is removed from consideration, feel free to kiss the trout stocking program goodbye. It costs money, does nothing to create a "properly managed and balanced system" - it's purely put and take recreation.

 

Say goodbye to deer hunting. Any biologist will tell you that hunting doesn't do much to control the deer population. The deer population is self limiting - too many and they die off from disease, starvation & close encounters with F250's. Again, deer hunting does nothing to create a "properly managed and balanced system".

 

Same thing with pheasant stocking. Same thing with duck hunting. It goes on and on.

 

Wacko PETA types will tell you that a "properly managed and balanced system" is best achieved by letting nature do its' thing without any interference from us.

 

If this thing passes, your recreation will be at the mercy of 7 political appointees in a State where most people don't give a rat's a$$ about whether you get to fish/hunt or not.

 

Gotta ask yourself, if they don't want to change how things are done (re: fishing and hunting as we know it), then why bother with the legislation in the first place.

 

Lastly, you know what "balanced system" can mean - think about our current fluke regs.

 

Just my $.02.

[TimS]

If this thing passes, your recreation will be at the mercy of 7 political appointees in a State where most people don't give a rat's a$$ about whether you get to fish/hunt or not.

 

That's the scary part, right there - they will be appointed by the governor "with the advice and consent of the Senate". <<--- That right there means each of the 7 seats will be up for sale to the person or group that puts the most $$ into the coffers of the right Senators. And that right there should be sounding all sorts of alarms, bells and whistles...because that's how whacko, extremeist folks buy their way into effecting everyone's lives.

 

 

Here's the quote from the bill - I made it a little easier to read - the parts that are red are proposed to be removed and replaced with the parts that are bold :

There shall be within the Division of Fish Game and Wildlife, a Fish and Game Council which shall consist of [11] seven members, each of whom shall be chosen with due regard to [his] the person's knowledge of and interest in the conservation of fish and [game] wildlife . Each member of the council shall be appointed by the Governor, with the advice and consent of the Senate. [Three of such members shall be farmers, recommended to the Governor for appointment to the council by the agricultural convention held pursuant to the provisions of article 2 of chapter 1 of Title 4 of the Revised Statutes; six of such members shall be sportsmen, recommended to the Governor for appointment to the council by the New Jersey State Federation of Sportsmen's Clubs; one of such members shall be the chairman of the committee established pursuant to section 7 of the "Endangered and Nongame Species Conservation Act" (P.L.1973, c.309; C. 23:2A-7), and one of such members shall be a person knowledgeable in land use management and soil conservation practices. One of such farmer representatives and two of such sportsmen representatives in the council shall be chosen from among residents of any of the following counties--Bergen, Essex, Hudson, Morris, Passaic, Sussex and Warren; one of such farmer representatives and two of such sportsmen representatives in the council shall be chosen from among residents of any of the following counties--Hunterdon, Mercer, Middlesex, Monmouth, Ocean, Somerset and Union; and one of such farmer representatives and two of such sportsmen representatives shall be chosen from among residents of any of the following counties--Atlantic, Burlington, Camden, Cape May, Cumberland, Gloucester and Salem. No member of the council shall have a direct personal financial interest that might reasonably be expected to impair the person's objectivity or independence of judgment.

 

 

Each member of the council shall be appointed for a term of [4] four years and shall serve until [his] a successor has been appointed and has qualified.

 

What they are trying to do is remove folks that fish, hunt or trap from the council - they are removing farmers, they are removing sportsmen, they are removing the part where 6 people on the council were to be recommended by NJ's Federation of Sportsmen...etc, etc. In other words, what they want to do is make it so the entire council can be bought and paid for through campaign contributions. <<--- that's friggin' scary right there....cause whacko extremists ALWAYS have more money than folks looking for some outdoor recreation

 

 

TimS

[Karen]

Excuse me a second while I use the lump on my shoulders:

 

 

I've read the bills - I just read them again. While I'm opposed to it, changing the structure of the Fish and Game Council does not eliminate freshwater fishing, hunting and trapping in NJ. Again, even though I'm opposed to the bills, this is a bold faced lie by the APP. The bills would not elimiate freshwater fishing or hunting or trapping in NJ. I think the bills should be fought and defeated, but for a paper to make such knowingly false statements is a pretty poor and dishonest tactic for doing so.

 

TimS

 

Um, someone please tell me where that original quote came from. Is it a news article or is it, perhaps, from the OpEd page?

[apmaurosr]

Tim S

 

Firstly, I had no idea the link to Field and Stream was a commercial sale or advertising. I thought it was a link to an article, the article was not selling anything. I apologize if I over looked something.

 

As for your understanding of the bill, and your statement that it doesn't eliminate freshwater fishing, hunting, and trapping - I respectfully disagree, and quite strongly I might add.

 

I am the author of the piece in the Asbury Park Press.

 

Changing the F & G Council does not in itself eliminate fishing, hunting, and trapping. The F & G Council overseas freshwater fishing, hunting, and trapping - it determines the game codes. Changing the structure as proposed by the politicians takes away "conservation-minded" individuals and allows for any political hack to sit on the council, and anti-hunter, or a senator's friend.

 

Changing the council is 1 part of the strategy. The 2nd part is what eliminates hunting, fishing, and trapping - changing the code (law) that governs the F & G Council.

 

The new law prohibits hunting, fishing, and trapping "for recreation and food supply." It mandates that "non-lethal" means be used. If you can't fish, hunt, or trap for "recreation" or "food supply" then you can't fish, hunt or trap - because that is the reason we do them.

 

Also, all references to the word "game" (animals that can be hunted) is changed to "wildlife." The reason is obvious - get rid of "game," if an animal is not defined as "game" it can not be hunted.

 

Bill A3275 is sponsored by an assemblyman that has a Harvard law background. He is a vegetarian and animal rights activist, his campaign is funded by animal rights activists.

 

The bills are very clear - they are written to eliminate hunting, freshwater fishing, and trapping. They attack the Fish & Game Council by changing its composition to allow anits on the council, and they change the law that deletes reference to "recreation" and "food supply."

 

As I said, I couldn't disagree with you more, in fact there is a very real danger in not recognizing the bills for what they are - the following organizations see the bills for the threat they pose:

 

NJSFSC

UBNJ

JCAA

NRA

SCI

NRA

Numerous hunting, fishing, and trapping clubs

Numerous state senators and assembly persons.

 

Ant

[apmaurosr]

I don't know if this can be posted, but I will do so knowing a moderator will delete it if necessary:

 

 

I will discuss bills A3275 and S2041, the antis and their domestic terrorist affiliations, and their relationships with the bill's sponsors Panter & Karcher on Saturday.

 

You may join me by tuning in to 1450 on the AM dial this Saturday morning at 9:00am. It's espn radio program Rack & Fin with Tom P. If you don't happen to live in south Jersey you can listen on your computer

 

Thank you.

 

Ant

 

Chairman, New Jersey Outdoor Alliance

[Sudsy]

Ant, little help please

 

No problem going to the main page, however when I flick on the show banner I get a blank screen. The tab up top reads Wenj.asx (video/x-ms-asf Object) and down at the bottom left corner it reads "Done"

 

I'm running Mozilla Firefox on Windows XP Home Edition

[apmaurosr]

It opens when I click the "icon" for Rack & Fin. The program isn't on now but I do hear an announcement when I open it. Perhaps you can call them with your question.

 

Ant

[TimS]

and your statement that it doesn't eliminate freshwater fishing, hunting, and trapping - I respectfully disagree, and quite strongly I might add.

 

 

<snip>

 

 

Changing the F & G Council does not in itself eliminate fishing, hunting, and trapping.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong - the bills are trying to change the F&G counsil - you say chaning the counsil won't eliminate fishing, hunting and trapping - and you say you quite strongly disagree with me when I said the bills don't eliminate fishing, hunting and trapping in NJ...right?

 

 

I understand what you are suggesting - you are saying that it might be the long term result of changing the counsil. Yes, I agree. But the bills themselves, as I said in the post you "quite strongly" disagreed with - the bills themselves do not eliminate fishing, hunting and trapping.

 

 

Even though I'm opposed very much to these bills, there is nothing in these bills that would eliminate fishing, hunting or trapping in NJ - and to say that there is, no matter how many acronyms you belong to, is dishonest and dangerous. I read the bills, I quoted the bills, they propose to change the counsil - they do not make fishing, hunting or trapping illegal in NJ. Down the road, that may be the end result - but these bills do not outlaw anything.

 

 

Just my .02 - I'm all for making a stand against nonsense like buying the entire F&G counsil for one group's alterior motives - but I'm also very much against using dishonest positions to garner emotional support - that kinda stuff can easily bite the whole effort right in the arse

 

 

TimS