Machiavelli3

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About Machiavelli3

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  1. Yeah you're probably right in fact I'm not sure if what they're doing with the Bucktail would be any better or different than using a sinker maybe worse since you're essentially dragging a 4oz bucktail instead of a piece of gulp. When fishing the pulpit where can your jig go in what direction under the boat out, away from the boat, some times it goes toward the back where other people are fishing....if ur going light it's impossible to drag in that situation u would have to cast up and then bring it in once it got close. Can you drag on the pulpit ever with lighter jigs like u can on the stern corner Edit my opinion!!!!!! I think you guys might be great surf fluke anglers but my honest opinion is this...a long trailer hook on a "tap dance rig" with a nice piece of squid or fish with a main jig of 4oz ball jig or bucktail keeping your line in free spool is the best way to fish in a typical reef spot in those conditions the bucktail/jig works as both somewhat of a jig and a sinker... that 6 inch gulp on the trailer hook is doing the same exact thing as your casting into the drift 1oz ball jig with little to no effort and your covering more area and spots on the ground had you been casting just 1 or 2 oz jig into the drift on the otherside...and you are basically busting your ass covering less ground with less fishing time trying to accomplish what a long trailer hook will do for you with ease and no effort. That said had it been a full boat and you were going under the boat your strategy would make sense as you are forced to either go heavy or cast out something lighter...not using a teaser or trailer hook also makes no sense to me. I guess I'd have to agree with the hi lo jiggers and skinner....the fishing may be much better in his area and probably is but I'd have to agree with his presentation and technique...the only difference of opinion I have with him is that I like cut bait. In the end I thought they were wrong and that dragging bait was better but that's kinda what they're doing anyways so it turns out I wasn't totally off. But the advice that they should be casting some 1oz ball jig with a gulp and no trailer hook not even a teaser is beyond ridiculous. Even with the terrible advice I still managed a 30-50lb cow nose ray that was a miracle to land and also ran into a sand tiger on the good Ole tap dance rig. Sadly I was broken off....but that's kinda why I fish it seems like flounder have a lot of prestige I'd much rather jig and land.sand tiger on light gear. And it wouldn't be my 1st and the awesome thing is you can target and fish for sand tigers and flounder at the same time...everytime I've ran into a sand tiger I was using a basic 2oz bucktail flounder rig
  2. How come when you're on the bow specifically the pulpit and you cast straight into the open water away from the boat it usually comes back towards the boat sometimes on the left or right side. But if you were fishing on the side of the boat the current will take you under the boat or if your on the otherside all the way out. However when your on the pulpit it always comes back towards the boat but depending on the current it could end up on the right or left side of the boat....but it never takes your line out further.away from.the boat
  3. Buddha how come when you're on the pulpit the jig always works its way back towards the front of the boat on either the left or right side and never goes the other way (away from theboat further out)? Like when you cast straight facing the water a lot of times it'll come back to you and if it doesn't and say the drift is taking ur jig to the right pretty hard that means you'd want to cast out towards the left side? Basically into the drift that way u can still cover ground as light as possible
  4. I'm sorry I Mainly fish when I'm on vacation. I use to use the skinner technique and had the most success winning a few pools and once back to back. Since then I have experimented and tested out many things and my results have plummeted due to a result of using too much bait usually. When I had the most success it was the standard bucktail and teaser and 6inch gulp grubs. No bait. Can you give me an example of upcasting. Here is what I have tried and failed with. Say ur on the side of the boat and the lines are going to the right....I cast as far out and to the left as I can letting the jig work its way to the right. If we are going under the boat I cast into the drift straight out, work it back till I'm pretty well under the boat....at which point i maybe try to let a little line and hit bottom again and try to sneak a quick one without getting tangled on the other side....if tangles weren't an issue shouldn't we just let out line? No? Yes? And why? A couple weeks ago I was on a party boat on the side. the lines were going away from the boat I was using a 6oz bucktail (basically just for weight) with a trailer hook of a 4 inch mullet with a smaller piece of squid. Even 6oz was tough holding so I was letting out line a lot jigging it. I had 5 shorts one a half inch shy of a slot fish 17incher. There wasn't a ton of keepers on the boat. When we were going under I had the same setup only this time a 3 oz bucktail I bombed it out there reeled in slack and jigged it and didn't get a fluke. I think the reason was because my 6oz was covering a lot more ground and in the water way longer till it found a fish altho they were shorts maybe if I had a bigger gulp there woulda been 1 keeper or so in the mix.... Any thoughts? Basically the way the guys we're fishing in my op, has been more successful for me as well as skinners strategy. But I think that's because it's easier u just drop down and that's pretty much all there is to it I'm gonna give it another shot. I'm gonna pick up some lighter ball jigs ditch the bucktail and fish with one hook. I'm gonna try and get the pulpit... I'll go as light as I think I can tossing it out there on the pulpit....tossing it straight away from the pulpit or towards the right or left letting it come back. If I'm not getting to the bottom or staying in the water till the jig is back to me I guess I should try maybe a teaser totaling 2-3oz if the 1oz or lower are too quick? If 2oz is too quick I guess I gotta drag something.
  5. I'm sorry I Mainly fish when I'm on vacation. I use to use the skinner technique and had the most success winning a few pools and once back to back. Since then I have experimented and tested out many things and my results have plummeted due to a result of using too much bait usually. When I had the most success it was the standard bucktail and teaser and 6inch gulp grubs. No bait. Can you give me an example of upcasting. Here is what I have tried and failed with. Say ur on the side of the boat and the lines are going to the right....I cast as far out and to the left as I can letting the jig work its way to the right. If we are going under the boat I cast into the drift straight out, work it back till I'm pretty well under the boat....at which point i maybe try to let a little line and hit bottom again and try to sneak a quick one without getting tangled on the other side....if tangles weren't an issue shouldn't we just let out line? No? Yes? And why? A couple weeks ago I was on a party boat on the side. the lines were going away from the boat I was using a 6oz bucktail (basically just for weight) with a trailer hook of a 4 inch mullet with a smaller piece of squid. Even 6oz was tough holding so I was letting out line a lot jigging it. I had 5 shorts one a half inch shy of a slot fish 17incher. There wasn't a ton of keepers on the boat. When we were going under I had the same setup only this time a 3 oz bucktail I bombed it out there reeled in slack and jigged it and didn't get a fluke. I think the reason was because my 6oz was covering a lot more ground and in the water way longer till it found a fish altho they were shorts maybe if I had a bigger gulp there woulda been 1 keeper or so in the mix.... Any thoughts? Basically the way the cape may guys we're fishing, has been more successful for me as well as skinners strategy.
  6. So say 2-4oz is holding go a fraction of that size with a ball jig and a big 6inch gulp. The key is to be able to feel when you're on bottom which is hard because I'm not sure my rod and line are as light and sensitive as can be. Only reel in a little of the slack and keep the rod up high let the drift bring the jig back till ur line is under the boat or were the drift takes ur line until its not longer on bottom. When you feel the fluke reel in till a slight load in the rod and then set the hook. What I have to do with my line and rod with 1oz is usually wait till my line stops running and comes to a steady halt, that's how I know I'm on the bottom most times. Do I have this right? The party boats I'm on in south jersey for fluke are usually at a reef usually cape may. Google says it's about 70ft. I was fishing cape may point as well where u can see the beach and shore line quite easily so I'd say it's not deep If say 4oz is holding in 50-70 ft can you still go a fraction of that? Most of the so called experts on party boats are hi lo jigging with a 6inch grub a bucktail and teaser. Basically exactly what skinner does is what they do. The only difference is that skinner pretty much always has bottom and is vertical with 2-6oz. The experts in south will just keep their thumb on the spool when say a 4oz isn't holding that well. The reason I came on here was because I was searching for a better alternative to fishing for flounder if it was possible. There's no doubt a big bucktail and teaser with gulps and dropping down works. But can you have better success with what I'm explaining to you and how u fish? I think the reason you go as light as possible is because the smaller that ball jig the more natural the gulp looks and also let'sthe drift and current give that gulp and jig the most action and better pop when u bounce it? And that's probably why people jig in the first place to put action on those heavy hi lo bucktails they're using they're all rapid jigging not popping it up and down. Where as you you're letting the current basically glide and move the light jig reeling in slack and giving it a pop now and then? I think I'm starting to understand but I have to say a big bucktail with a teaser is so much simpler to fish, rather than identifying which way the drift is how heavy and light do I need to go etc. Buddha say we can go with 1oz or sub 1oz jig. Why does casting up drift or in to the drift make more sense to you than say dropping down and letting line out continuously, or say we are casting into the drift and are jig works itself back to us and we're now going under the boat (assume line tangles aren't an issue) why not let line out as our jig gets closer to us and then under us and keep letting line out? Also why no teaser or trailer hook? Say just a plain hook no weight. The logic behind it? Is it because even the hook and extra gulp will have weight to it and thus impede the jigs action?
  7. Interesting on today's morning trip conditions were fairly good a guy in the back had 3 short flounder on a 2oz bucktail and teaser he wasn't casting just dropping and jigging I guess. I had nothing. Was on the pulpit again 2oz bucktail on a 4inch grub and a 4inch grub trailer hook usually hooked with a thin slice of squid. I'm not sure if i was getting unlucky or doing something wrong maybe retrieving too fast idk. But e shorts to 0 kinda saddens me. Is there something I was doing wrong do u think or can we toss it up to bad luck. Or does just dropping straight down and staying put a better method?
  8. Has anyone ever caught a sand tiger shark? If so what is the average weight for 3-4ft sand tiger? Google seems to only give adult size and maximum weight....
  9. One thing is for sure....casting in all directions at the front of the boat and pulpit and working the jig back in sub 50ft water is absolutely correct I'm glad I joined this forum and asked my questions and wasn't afraid to look dumb. I joined and put together my best fishing day ever a 20 or 30lb stingray and another fish on the afternoon trip that eventually broke my line. It may not be flounder but who cares? What flounder is breaking 15lb test? The current was calm today little wind and we were in relatively shallow water I'd say 30 ft maybe.
  10. Yeah that's what I thought I'm not sure why they asked me if I wanted to take a picture I thought it was a prestigious type fish. Well I ran into another big fish this fish was heavy but didn't take as much line as the ray the mate said it could be a potential sand tiger. Sadly it broke my braid after a bit I only had 15lb test on.
  11. The fluke bite must not be great since we didn't go to the reef and every other party boat also went to the point. Lots of kingfish crockery and some blues n weakfish. I was at the pulpit casting a 3.5oz jig with a teaser of bait and 4inch mullet gulp. I ran into an eagle ray. It took out the whole side of the boat it was a miracle I didn't get tangled with anyone of the 20 lines the mate coached me when the ray ran with the line I walked down from very top of the bow to the stern. Reeling in and going under and over everyone's rod. He had to be atleast 20lbs. I only had 15lb braid on.
  12. What did you use and how'd ya do?
  13. Yeah it's also known as the chicken rig it deft works especially when your drifting fast and have a long leader pretty much with a fast drift all u need is a long leader with a gulp and squid on a naked hook. However I like going a little lighter and letting a lot of line out as long as it's reasonable. And the bucktail works the same as a sinker in this case only it can attract fish and the trailer hook sorta acts as the rig mentioned. Meaning if they don't want that big bucktail you can put whatever gulp you want by itself and if that doesn't work it's just a bad day. I'd almost never use a sinker unless I didn't have a 6oz bucktail or the current was that fast that u needed over 8oz. On most days we drift it's because the conditions are good so typically you'll need 3-6oz. If you'd need 8oz+ he won't even bother going to the reef because usually when it's like that seas are rough and it's windy.
  14. I have a 2 rod setup one casting for 1-4oz and a conventional rod and reel for 1-6oz but it can handle up to 10oz comfortably. I'm use to fishing this area. U usually don't need more than 6oz so I would say a typical day would be 4oz. If it's windy and conditions are bad we won't even bother going offshore and drifting they'll just anchor over a wreck. What I'm going to try is a 2oz bucktail and I have just a painted lead plain ball jig and I might try that on the trailer hook. What I wonder is since the trailer hook is the same weight as the bucktail and since it's longer will that be on the bottom and the bucktail above it or will they both lay on the bottom....I'm not really sure, so I guess I have to just try and see if it produces. If that setup doesn't work or is still too light (4oz) I guess I'll just have to go to a 6oz bucktail with a plain hook and just keep it in free spool and maintain bottom.that way. Either way I'm set for as low as 2oz to up to 8oz. The 8oz I would use would be a 6oz bucktail and a 2oz.lead ball jig as a trailer.
  15. Sorry buddha I asked the same question twice must've forgot this post. Thx for answering my question. Going to wildwood nj tomorrow plan on getting out on a 4 hour trip, hopefully the conditions permit and we can fish the cape may reef and try for some flounder. If not it'll be wreck fishing. Cape may reef is about 70 ft I'm gonna try to go as light as possible tossing a 1-3oz bucktail with a trailer hook with a 4 inch gulp mullet and small piece of squid. If it doesn't workout either because of conditions or we are catching and targeting something else I'll be down till Monday and we'll go out Sat and Sunday as well. Most likely what I'll do is toss a 1 or 2oz up at the pulpit into the drift working it back. If I'm getting outfished I'll have to reevaluate. Almost everyone will be on rentals with a sinker hi lo rig with squid.