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About Ajefferslyon

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  1. Palm to forehead. Totally makes more sense now.
  2. Front taper has that "compound taper" as Al Buhr calls it. This is when the rate of the taper increases, as opposed to a single, steady rate of taper. Al says compound is best.
  3. I got calipers with accurancy down to .001 inch (I think) and learned that the heads (or my heads at least) are all over the place on diameter. Not an exact sort of thing I concluded. Also, the head might be compressed sideways or something and that throws it off too. Went back to feeling the taper changes with my fingers. But I guess they are helpful for ball park.
  4. Great point out SSpey - that is just the floating taper. Thanks. And your right the sudden turnover at the end aint all that bad. And good point on the lower air resistance -- real factor.
  5. Yes pokie! I was hoping this would be helpful
  6. Oh my god - I just wrote a very long post and lost it. If anyone knows how to find lost drafts, please let me know. Hate rewriting. Anyway, will try to recap. FYI, I realize that all below discussion is sort of theory + can pretty much be ignored when it comes to reality and fishability. The Intermediate leviathan is similar to the rio outbound - which I love - with the weight near the forward section of the head. (below is the original, superior, long head version) They shoot well, they cut through wind, and they throw big flies. That said, I still feel like the energy builds too much and the turnover blasts the leader and fly downwards too quickly sometimes. Now compare this with the standardish skagit head profile i.e. a horizontally squashed scandi. Diameter decreases as we travel towards the tip…frequently staying flat for the middle section like this profile. These heads are the ones that drove me nuts turning over so quickly. ( yes I was using them with tips of all sizes, weights and lengths) I think this problem is tied to AL Buhr's explanation of how mass ratios affect the unraveling loop. Paraphrasing horribly: As a loop unrolls, and the mass of the lower section increases in relation to the mass of the upper section, so too does the tendency of the loop to unroll increase. "Unrolling" is opposed to "shooting" in this explanation. So, when you cast a line with the above taper profile, the mass of the bottom section quickly becomes greater than the upper, and the loop wants to unroll. Reverse with outbound taper: the loop wants to shoot. So I've been using the below taper more: a triangle taper-esque taper which has a "rear taper" section before increasing in diameter and then tapering down to the tip. Rear taper in quotes because of manufacturers inconsistency with taper profile section naming.) Have included a Rio Flight taper here too -- the orange line -- for comparison. Anyway, according to Al Buhr, with the center of mass closer to the tip because of the longer rear taper, the line should have a tendency to shoot for a longer period of time before wanting to unroll. In reality, I find that yes, these are better than the regular skagit taper, because they don't turn over as much like a fly swatter, but alas still turn over too quickly. So I've been experimenting with attaching MOW tips & reversed skagit tips to the running line, which I then attach to the head…in an effort to mimik a rear taper…but I think the effect of the increasing diameter outweighs any benefits from changing the center of mass towards the tip. They are some of the worst casting lines ever created, and the increasing energy created in the back taper really gets the head turning over WAY too quickly Though I did raise my eyebrows when I attached a backwards skagit to the running line and then a forwards skagit to that. Enabled the longest cast I ever made, but way to unwieldy and long when fished. But it was curiously simillar to GT tropical taper, those sought after old airflo beach lines, and some distance casting lines. Long story short, I think this elongated football taper is the best of both worlds – the happy medium between Outbound and Skagit tapers.
  7. Killiefish, thanks so much for info. I edited down your quote above to the topics I'll comment on. 1) Thank you so much for pointing out that error of mine. It may be a small typo, but back in the day, small typos like that would drive me mad...(is that true?! or is it a typo?!) and I can't believe I just did the same damn thing. You are right, terminology is so important for proper understanding when we talk about these lines. The UST is a head! NOT a tip! 2) Totally forgot to check out the specs on those scandi shorts. Thanks for the heads up. I'd probably experiment with adding tips to those UST Short heads even though I don't think they are designed to include tips. 3) I have been meaning to try this running line. Rich Murphy prefers tropical lines due too greater stiffness (i.e. less tangles) and I had all these used 8wts from the fly shop, so I'm currently using 8wt bonefish lines as running line. I do like them, though a stretch every few outings is required. I used to cut off the whole 8wt head, but the remaining running line would be too short. I have been reluctant to just cut off the 8wt front taper, because I feel that it would promote the skagit head to turn over too quickly...so I just use the whole darn line as my running line. 4) What specific skagit intermediate heads do you use? I've had trouble fining larger int. skagit heads. 5) I love the ability to change tips, but I think I agree that a seamless, connection b/t running line & head would be ideal. Wish you could buy fly line coating material only...like a meltable coating to apply wherever. 6) I'm glad to hear someone state a head length minimum. I think I would agree. I forget if the "Head length should be no more than 3 times rod length" maxim only applies to spey?...or if it hold water (broadly) for overhead too?
  8. snag777, I definitely need to take a page from your book. As I continue to geek out flylines here I will be sure to keep your simple, practical approach in the back of my mind as a reality check while I steam towards overcomplication.
  9. One last thing before I go back to work: I learned about this book from you guys somewhere in this forum. But it should be right at the beginning of this topic. It's the only book I know of that explains -- all too briefly -- how and why certain tapers and weight profiles perform the way they do.
  10. For me, the most frustrating issue to overcome when choosing a line for my TH rod was the tendency for the head to unroll too quickly and snap the fly down into the water too early. rpike talks about what I think is the same issue in the below post -- which has some very good info on fly lines by the way. What I learned: The head length I was using was too short i.e. between 23' and 26' feet (for my casting style) I currently find that longer skagit heads of 26- 30ft + 10-12ft tips (total head lengths of 36-42ft) to be much better than anything shorter. But this only partly solved the problem. Scandi lines are awesome to cast, but are tough for big flies. After about 5 years into owning the G Loomis 12/13 11'3" and playing with skagit lines I grew so frustrated that I called G Loomis and found myself speaking with Steve Rajeff himself. He said the rod was designed around a Longer Airflo beach line that is no longer made -- but that had a 42ish ft head with a long belly...I think we concluded that the Rio Outbound was closest (with it's 37.5ft head) albeit with more weight towards the tip. Few years later and rio stopped making the 37.5ft outbound head and the airflo line was still discontinued. A friend then suggested a 44" scandi tip so I got the SA ultimate scandi taper and it became my go to line for a number of years. It casted much more like a 'regular' fly line...the the long tapered tip promoting a controllable loop unravelling at the familiar - slower - rate. Of course I then got into night fishing with giant gamechangers and I had to revisit skagit lines. I was casting with too much running line out the tip 100% of the time. I'm not sure of the physics here, but it is harder to shoot that skagit head in a tight loop when you have 20 feet of running line out the tip. I finally, accidentally, laid out a perfect cast with almost no running line out the tip and that changed alot for me. I currently have between 3 and 10 ft out the tip with skagit and between 8 and 15ft with scandi I wasn't raising the rod tip at the end of the cast. This ensures straight flight path of rod tip of course, and I couldn't believe how effective it was in tightening up the loop. Just had to get all that out before I get into the tougher questions. I think you all know this stuff, but it represents the info I wish I had access to at the time.
  11. Currently, the best way to get into TH saltwater fishing is to check out the topic: "Two hand rods for the salt" and pick up a Mike Oliver, spey, carp, or (god forbid) a switch rod. Hopefully the next step is to then check out this new topic "Two hand fly lines for the salt" for info on line selection, customization, tips, taper theories, etc. (this topic will inevitably have to include casting styles too I think) I personally went though 20+ different lines over the last 10 years trying to get my G. Loomis 12/13 11'3" to launch 130ft casts like I imagined it would. In this age of information, I couldn't believe that I was forced to figure it out via trial and error – and I'm still figuring it out. Long story short, I know we will all be better TH fisherman if we share what we know on the lines we use. Thank you!
  12. Appreciate the info snag777
  13. Thanks guys. Will start it later today or tomorrow. Think this is going to be super useful.
  14. Gentlemen, I have spent the last few weeks immersed in a search for in depth information on fly line tapers in order to gain working knowledge of how different factors affect performance. The internet is awash with very basic info on the diff between DT and WF lines etc. There are basically no books either...except for Al Buhr's "How to Design Fly Lines". It is awesome. It's the only information source I have found that touches on the specifics of how weight placement and taper affect the tendency to shoot or unroll i.e. exactly the type of info I'm trying to find. Then I remembered Mike Oliver suggesting a while back that I start a new topic about fly lines (I was pestering him with information on lines for his awesome two handed rods). I could probably go deep over at spey pages, but I'd rather discuss with you guys – fellow TH overhand striper fishermen. I think it could be a great source of info for one of the more challenging (and fun) aspects of TH fly fishing – choosing and playing with different lines and tapers. Hell, I might even have some info to contribute, if only what not to do, since I'm constantly trying out weird ideas. Bottom line is: you guys cool with me starting a new topic about fly lines specifically for TH rods? Or would you rather keep it all in the main TH thread? Or is there already some topic like this that I'm missing? Thanks all.
  15. I will be trying out that method tonight. Thanks Baldwin. My fingers are definately cut up. Tape is almost necessary for poppers I've found. Anyone notice that the harder you try ro pull the popper out the more lodged it seems to get in the water? Is a gentle start to the backcast the key?...or a little spey roll cast perry poke thingy?