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BobMo3

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  1. Tom Vento, AKA "Oxy-Dave" is a keepalive salesman, He peddles bait tank aerators and pediatric medical oxygen regulators and little O2 tanks for a living. Busted again on his very 1st post trying to slip in and sell his wares again. Tim nailed him immediately and deleted his post. I believe Tom Vento, the keepalive salesman, is the historical "Oxy-Dave" your talking about here...
  2. Fast forward to late fall 2015 – update: Forget all the wasted time and aggravation chasing down parts to build a homemade O2 rig. There’s a lot more to this oxygen business than I ever imagined, especially safety. I cut to the chase and talked to a lot of sales people selling O2 rigs on the internet, at least when a warm body would answer the phone and help me. Emergence oxygen and short term use (1) Commercial Oxygen Regulator Adjustable Brass (1) Fine Pore Diffuser 3.0” (1) Oxygen Tube 7’ — For Short Term Emergency Oxygenation Uses Disposable BernzOmatic™ Oxygen Cylinders (red) Cylinder valve and regulator connector (left hand threads). Disposable oxygen cylinders purchased @ Home Depot, Lowe’s, Ace Hardware – not refillable.
  3. I need help and ideas about homemade O2 rig build before I build this. I am concerned about safety with the gas and o2 tank. Don't want to use medical O2 regulator, they are cheap enough, but too many problems with them. I understand that aerators are not oxygen rigs and there are serious safety issues using oxygen/oxygen tanks. Thanks
  4. Drako... What kind of problems do you have keeping whitebait? heh-heh Some fishermen just cant keep bait alive, that's why they throw plastic and iron baits.
  5. Phantom21, Experimenting is fun, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t work… but, experimentation is fun to play with. I like to experiment with stuff too. “Also, a buddy of mine works the Bass tour in ON. They use electric oxygenators in the holding tanks. It is a thin 2-3" puck that runs off 12V and a timer. When it is on it significantly increases the O2 in the tanks. Might be worth looking into if you cant get a better water change over going.” I looked in to this like you suggested and found a lot of information on the internet that seriously conflicts with the Oxygenator infomercials, sales material and distributor’s promotional information and fishermen’s u-tube product testimonials. First, why does your buddy that works on the Bass tour in ON find it necessary to give bass (pure) oxygen with electric oxygenators for only a few minutes at in weigh-in holding tanks yet the tournaments fishermen DO NOT provide the same (pure) oxygen with an oxygen system in tournament boat livewells for 7-8 hours, for the all-day ride in their boat livewells? Is providing (pure) oxygen for the catch a few minutes in holding tanks (ER tanks) at the end of the day just part of the “weigh-in show”… simply high drama for spectators and the media demonstrating the best emergency room care possible for the total tournament catch with oxygen that put on for spectators and the media watching (with photo-ops) the weigh-in show? This is a real double standard of tournament bass care, the best care for a only few minutes in weigh-in ER holding tanks with (pure) oxygen administration at the end of the day, yet the tournament fishermen do not and will not provide (pure) oxygen for their catch they transport in their boat livewells 7-8 hours, all day. No doubt that the fishermans bass care is far less than the best bass care possible yet the bass are required to spend a few minutes in the oxygenated ER holding tanks at the weigh-in. This is a real tournament bass care paradox don’t you think? Sure looks like a tournament bass care paradox to me. I really like the idea of these small electric oxygenators you mentioned and they are cheap, they don’t cost much. I Googled them and learned a lot about them. Yes, they do make a little (pure) oxygen when they are running, in the “on “ cycle (electrolysis of water), but the oxygen production limitations are severe. Evidently you have to also run your aerator with them or the result is really catastrophic. Many boat manufactured install them in new boat livewells and there appears to be a great “after market” for them at big box stores (Cabela’s, Bass World, Gander Mountain and many other stores). No disrespect for your buddy’s opinion about these electric oxygenators, the scientific research and publications did not find any significant increase in livewell oxygenation. I wanted to know how these electric oxygenators really work and Googled them, now I know about them. Sharing what I have found with you: Here’s unbiased published scientific research and opinion of the electric oxygenator provided by fishery biologist… no oxygenator advertisement or promotional testimony here… an evaluation based on only scientific methodology… this might “blow your dress up.” AquaInnovations Oxygenator - How Effective is It - by Fishery Biologist Randy Myers TPWD, Inland Fisheries Division, San Antonio, TX Publication 2-14-2012 http://www.slideshare.net/raminlandfish/the-oxygenator-how-effective-is-it And there’s more, read on… Oxygenator™ Oxygen Generator Electrolysis Type Aqua Innovations Oxygenator™, distributed by T-H Marine is an electrolysis device primarily sold and used in freshwater livewells and bait tanks. This small D/C battery operated electrical oxygen system requires (2) AA or 12 volt batteries. Some units require daily maintenance after each use, some units are advertised as maintenance free. The Oxygenator™ is an Ozone (O3) generator that produced pure Ozone gas. Lane Gergely, Sure-Life Products, Seguin, TX – Her professional opinion of the Oxygenator™ posted on Texas Fishing Forum 7/25/2007 http://texasfishingforum.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1486114/1 Lane writes: “The Oxygenator generates highly unstable ozone that converts to the more stable oxygen.” “Ozone reacts with various chlorides [salts] and metals to generate chlorine which is toxic to fish.” Electrolytes are salts – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolyte “The 'Oxygenator’ claims that their U2 Pro Formula is the 'ONLY’ safe livewell treatment that can be used with their system is FALSE!!!!!!.” “ANY LIVEWELL PRODUCT THAT CONTAINS A DECHLORINATOR [LIKE AMQUEL] can be used with their system, even it contains salt! Most if not all products on the market today contain dechlorinators and MANY contain ammonia removers! Their marketing is FALSE and MISLEADING!” “Moral to this story, don’t be fooled by hype and slick marketing!” Dechlorinators and ammonia removing chemicals are NOT FDA APPROVED for use on food fish or fish that will or may be caught eaten by humans i.e. post live release tournament bass, crappie, redfish, etc. These chemicals are commonly used to transport ornamental, aquarium fish and live bait not for human consumption. Eating fish that that have been contaminated, soaking in livewells contaminated with these with these chemicals for hours may be a health risk you and your family health. SCIENTIFIC FACTS: Texas Parks & Wildlife Department Research: AquaInnovations Oxygenator™ – How Effective is It – by Fishery Biologist Randy Myers TPWD, Inland Fisheries Division, San Antonio, TX Publication 2-14-2012 http://www.slideshare.net/raminlandfish/the-oxygenator-how-effective-is-it No advertisement/fisherman testimonials/infomercial here. *Livewells did not contain any bait or fish consuming oxygen during TP&WD DO testing. Empty livewells with no fish DO NOT NEED ANY OXYGEN. CAUTION: The gas space between a closed livewell lid and the water surface can become enriched with 3 different gases: oxygen, hydrogen, (an explosive gas like acetylene and propane) and pure 100% chlorine gas (an explosive gas) if the electrolyzed livewell water contains any salt or livewell products that contain salt. Incorporate any potential ignition source (electric wires, any live electricity) inside the livewell… EXPLOSION HAZARD / FIRE HAZARD. Electrolysis breaks down fresh water molecules into pure hydrogen gas, pure oxygen gas and deadly hydroxyl ions. If the livewell water contains any salt, chlorine gas is always produced. Chlorine gas bubbles are visualized around the emitter as small greenish-yellow color gas bubbles (seen with back lighting). Hydrogen and oxygen bubbles are colorless. In freshwater livewells, two thirds (2/3 or 66%) of the gas bubbles produced at the emitter are pure 100% hydrogen gas (an explosive gas) and only 1/3 or 33% of the bubbles you see are 100% pure oxygen. The Oxygen generator is designed, advertised and does produce [some] pure 100% oxygen by electrolysis of water. The Aqua Innovations Oxygenator™ may not produce enough oxygen for all the fish or bait in the livewell, the total stocking density. A FISH HEALTH FACT: Hydrogen gas combines with other elements (metabolic waste) in livewell water forming noxious and very toxic hydrogen sulfide that becomes corrosive when exposed to salt, (hydrogen chloride). Oxygenator™ has no moving parts, makes no noise but older emitters require maintenance with special equipment after each use. Everything dies in the livewell if the oxygen life support system fails to produce and deliver enough pure oxygen. Summer conditions and overstocked livewells may exceed the Oxygenator™ capabilities to provide minimum safe DO saturation levels while the unit is working perfectly as advertised. Water electrolysis produces some pure oxygen and twice as much pure hydrogen; 1:2 ratio respectively. The small volume of pure oxygen it does generate is neither regulated nor controlled by the fisherman. The small volume of oxygen generated is strictly limited, regulated and controlled by a thermometer that measures livewell water temperature. The actual DO saturation produced with the Oxygenator™ has nothing to do with the DO saturation required to meet and sustain the minimal safe livewell oxygenation for 8-10 hours of intensive transport in overstocked summer livewell conditions. THE SALES POINT – The Oxygenator™ generates 100% pure oxygen. Technically the Oxygenator™ does qualify as a livewell oxygen system. The Oxygenator™ costs as much as a livewell water pump or small air compressor, bubble stone and air tube. IMPORTANT: Eliminate all unreal expectations and reduce any disappointments before your purchase. Ask the Oxygenator™ salesman or boat salesman these 4 simple questions before you buy: FACT: The Oxygenator™ does generates some pure 100% as advertised… Oxygenators™ deliver a fixed dose of oxygen. 1. Will the Oxygenator™ provide and ensure minimal safe livewell oxygenation (100% DO Saturation) for all the fish and live bait all day in the summer? 2. Will the Oxygenator™ provide and ensure minimal safe livewell oxygenation (100% DO Saturation) and keep all my tournament fish alive and safely oxygenated all day in the boat’s livewell? 3. Will the Oxygenator™ provide and ensure minimal safe livewell oxygenation (100% DO Saturation) and keep my live bait alive and healthy in my bait tank all day in a livewell or bait tank? 4. Is it necessary to use livewell aerators, run water pumps, spray bars in conjunction with the Oxygenator™ in summer livewells? Livewell oxygen systems must produce, maintain and sustain minimal continuous dissolved oxygen saturations (100% – 175% DO saturation) in a bass boat livewell, tournament weigh-in holding tank, release boat transport tanks containing a heavy limit, (many limits of tournament bass are15-30 lbs. fish or 400 lbs. of live fish) all day long during July/August tournaments. ELECTRICAL CURRENT may cause physiological and psychological stress impact of transporting live bait and tournament gamefish in water that’s actively being exposed to sustained low electrical current (electrolysis) in water unknown, out of sight and out of mind. NEGATIVE AFFECTS OF ELECTROLYSIS is well known by fishermen… how electrolysis breaks down metal and electrical components on boats, motors and boat trailers. Why zinc anodes are absolutely necessary to counteract the negative effects of electrolysis. The hallmark selling point is: “The Oxygenator ™… it makes 100% pure oxygen,” Period. But, will the Oxygenator™ really make enough oxygen to sustain an overcrowded livewell full of tournament fish or live bait all day in the summer is something sellers will not mentioned or discuss with you. If the generator fails to produce and or sustain the minimal safe Dissolved Oxygen Saturation all day for all the catch, your gamefish and bait may die while the generator is making 100% oxygen, operating perfectly as advertised. Like when your mechanical aerator or livewell water pump is working perfectly, humming away while the tournament fish or bait are suffocating and dying in your summer livewell while you are watching. Know the facts and limitations about the Oxygenator™. Expect very limited pure oxygen production and low dissolved oxygen (DO) saturations in livewells full of game fish and live bait every summer. Why? Because the oxygen output is controlled and cycled on and off strictly by livewell water temperature. When the unit is new and functioning correctly in late fall, winter, early spring weather, the small volume of 100% oxygen may satisfy the biological oxygen demand for a fish or a few live baits when environmental water temperature is 40 F – 65 F. FACT: The amount of oxygen tournament fish and live bait fish need is based on the biological demand of all the fish in captivity, collectively. The amount of oxygen needed has nothing to do with a livewell’s or bait tank’s water volume. Failure to generate enough DO is a seasonal problem like aeration, exhibiting every summer when the surface water temperature reaches 75 F – 90 F. Like all mechanical aeration and water pumps, you cannot ensure minimal safe livewell DO saturation with air or the Oxygenator™ in heavily stocked livewells. Water pumps only pump water and air pumps only pump air… air and water are not oxygen. The livewell water temperature sensor (the brain of the electrolyzer is a thermometer) cycles the unit on and off intermittently. The amount of oxygen that’s generated is strictly controlled by livewell water temperature not by the oxygen demand and needs of the fish or live bait inside the livewell. Add ice to cool the water and the unit cycles less generating less oxygen whether the well contains (1) three pound fish, (100 five pound fish or (15) fifteen pounds of live baitfish. Unlike standard professional fish transporters’ dissolved oxygen standards for transport DO protocols, livewell stocking densities are not a consideration for oxygen production and is of no concern with the Oxygenator™. That major design feature, a real plus to save electricity and battery power, can be absolutely deadly in the summer. You cannot increase the volume of 100% oxygen the unit produces and delivers which exposes an extremely limiting DO water quality factor like you’ve experience with mechanical aeration, insufficient safe oxygenation. DISSOLVED OXYGEN SATURATION RATE: Oxygenator™ literature claims to generate 80% DO saturation in 20 minutes in freshwater livewells, [no fish or bait in livewell water consuming oxygen, livewell stocking density -0-.]. This sounds great, right? How do you think 80% DO Saturation in 20 minutes with an Oxygenator™ squares with any standard aerator, spray bar, Mr.Bubbles air pump or livewell water pump? FACT: With no fish or bait in the livewell [livewell stocking density 0] and the standard mechanical aerators livewell pump running perfectly, 80% DO saturations or greater are easily reached within several minutes in summer livewell water. Even Mr. and Ms. Bubbles air pumps and bubblers can and will achieve 80% DO saturation under the same conditions in a few minutes in livewell water devoid of live bait and fish. U2 LIVEWELL ADDITIVE Oxygenator™ U2 instructions boldly state DO NOT USE THIS DEVICE IN SALTWATER LIVEWELLS OR BAIT TANKS and DO NOT USE SALT OR ANY LIVEWELL CHEMICALS or LIVEWELL WATER CONDITIONERS THAT CONTAIN SALT. Most livewell additives and chemicals contain salt, electrolytes that aid osmoregulation. U2 and Salt Water U2 livewell additives are the only additives recommended for safe use with the Oxygenator™ by the manufacture. U2 literature states the formulation contains essential electrolytes. “Electrolyte solutions are normally formed when a physiological salt is dissolved into a solvent (water).” What are the “essential electrolytes in livewell chemicals and formulations? Combinations of primary ions compose physiological electrolytes. Ions of Sodium (Na+), Chloride (Cl−), Potassium (K+), Calcium (Ca2+), magnesium Mg2+), Hydrogen Phosphate (HPO42−), and Hydrogen Carbonate (HCO3−). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolyte Before you turn on an Oxygenator™ it is essential that you KNOW beyond any doubt whether the livewell chemical or additive you added to your livewell water contains any salt compounds. If you are ever in doubt if any livewell additive contains salt, taste it. If you detect a salty taste, the formulation probably contains salt… Don’t turn-on your Oxygenator™. CAUTION: Many livewell chemical manufacturers claim their fish saver livewell formulations and chemicals consist of “food grade” ingredients and may be used on food fish. Many of these products are clearly not FDA approved for use on food fish for human consumption and should never be used on tournament gamefish that are released alive after the tournament. Tournament catch and release gamefish are used for food fish for many fishermen, their wives and children. Upon your request, any ethical livewell chemical manufacture should provide a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) or complete list of formulation ingredients upon your request. All the ingredients in the MSDS should be FDA approved for use on food fish for human consumption. It’s a public health issue and ethical statement regarding any concern for fellow fishermen and families that may catch and eat that fish you released yesterday after the tournament – The fish that you soaked 7-8 hours in the chemical bath in your livewell. And this… OXYGENATOR™ – OXYGEN GENERATOR – ELECTROLYSIS TYPE Aqua Innovations Oxygenator™, O2 Marine Technologies, distributed by T-H Marine is an electrolysis device primarily sold and used in freshwater livewells and bait tanks. This small D/C battery operated electrical oxygen system requires (2) AA or 12 volt batteries, some units require daily maintenance after each use, new units are advertised maintenance free. SCIENTIFIC FACTS: “The Oxygenator-How well does it work?” “How Effective is It?” Tested by Texas Parks and Wildlife Inland Fisheries Department. TPWD, Inland Fisheries Division, San Antonio, TX Publication by Fishery Biologist Randy Myers AquaInnovations Oxygenator 2-14-2012 http://www.slideshare.net/raminlandfish/the-oxygenator-how-effective-is-it When fish and live bait are densely crowded into livewells and bait tanks and excited during capture, handling, transport and captivity; it is absolutely is essential to provide dissolved oxygen (DO) faster than it is consumed by all the fish/bait in the livewell. The TP&WD dissolved oxygen test were done with NO fish in the livewell water consuming oxygen. Add 1 fish and the dissolved oxygen level in the livewell water plummets drastically. Add 15-20 lbs. of fish and the oxygenator simply fails to supply a safe amount of pure oxygen to maintain minimal safe live transport DO saturation resulting in high mortality and morbidity – THE DEAD FISH PENALITY. FACT: Although the Oxygenator does deliver 100% pure oxygen as advertised, it simply does not deliver enough pure oxygen continuously when fish are added to the livewell. CAUTION: The gas space between a closed livewell lid and the water surface can become enriched with 3 different gases; oxygen, hydrogen, (an explosive gas like acetylene and propane) and pure 100% chlorine gas (an explosive gas) if the electrolyzed livewell water contains any salt or livewell products that contain salt. Incorporate any potential ignition source (electric wires, any live electricity) inside the livewell… EXPLOSION HAZARD / FIRE HAZARD. Electrolysis breaks down fresh water molecules into pure hydrogen gas (H), pure oxygen gas (O2) plus deadly hydroxyl ions. If the livewell water contains any salt or livewell chemicals that contain salt, chlorine gas is always produced. Chlorine gas bubbles are visualized around the emitter as small greenish-yellow color gas bubbles (seen with back lighting). Hydrogen and oxygen bubbles are colorless. In freshwater livewells, two thirds (2/3) of the gas bubbles produced at the emitter is pure hydrogen gas (an explosive gas) and only 1/3 of the bubbles you see are pure oxygen. Although the generator may not produce enough oxygen for all the fish or bait in the livewell, the total stocking density; it is designed, advertised and does produce [some] pure 100% oxygen by electrolysis of water. That is the sales point. Oxygenator™ has no moving parts, makes no noise while older emitters require maintenance with special equipment after each use. Everything dies in the livewell if the oxygen live support system fails to produce or deliver enough oxygen. Summer conditions and overstocked livewells may exceed the Oxygenator™ capabilities to provide minimum safe DO saturation levels while the unit is working perfectly as advertised. Water electrolysis produces some pure oxygen and twice as much pure hydrogen; 1:2 ratio respectively. The small volume of pure oxygen it does generate is neither regulated nor controlled by the fisherman. The small volume of oxygen generated is strictly limited, regulated and controlled by a thermometer that measures livewell water temperature. The actual DO saturation produced with the Oxygenator™ has nothing to do with the DO saturation required to meet and sustain the minimal safe livewell oxygenation for 8-10 hours of intensive transport in overstocked summer livewell conditions. Reduce disappointments and eliminate any unreal expectations, ask a boat dealer and Oxygenator™ salesman before the purchase – Will the Oxygenator™ provide and ensure minimal safe livewell oxygenation in the summer, keep my live bait and all my tournament fish alive all day? Livewell oxygen systems must produce, maintain and sustain minimal continuous dissolved oxygen saturations (100% – 175% DO saturation) in a bass boat livewell, tournament weigh-in holding tank, release boat transport tanks containing a heavy limit, many limits of tournament bass (15-30 lbs fish or 400 lbs of live fish) in July/August tournaments all day long. ELECTRICAL CURRENT may cause physiological and psychological stress impact of transporting live bait and tournament gamefish in water that’s actively being exposed to sustained low electrical current (electrolysis) in water unknown, out of sight and out of mind. NEGATIVE AFFECTS OF ELECTROLYSIS are well know by fishermen…how electrolysis breaks down metal and electrical components on boats, motors and boat trailers. Why zinc anodes are absolutely necessary to counteract the negative effects of electrolysis. The hallmark selling point is: “The Oxygenator ™ makes 100% pure oxygen,” Period. But, sellers will never mention if it makes enough oxygen to sustain an overcrowded livewell full of fish or live bait all day in the summer. Technically the Oxygenator™ does qualify as a livewell oxygen system. The Oxygenator™ costs as much as a livewell water pump or small air compressor, bubble stone and air tube. If the generator fails to produce and or sustain the minimal safe Dissolved Oxygen Saturation all day for all the catch, your gamefish and bait may die while the generator is making 100% oxygen, operating perfectly as advertised. Like when your mechanical aerator or livewell water pump is working perfectly, humming away while the tournament fish or bait are suffocating and dying as you watch in your summer livewell. Know the facts and limitations about the Oxygenator™. Expect very limited pure oxygen production and low dissolved oxygen (DO) saturations in livewells full of gamefish and live bait every summer because the oxygen output is controlled and cycled on and off strictly by livewell water temperature. When the unit is new and functioning correctly in late fall, winter, early spring weather, the small volume of 100% oxygen may satisfy the biological oxygen demand for a small fish or a few live baits when environmental water temperature is within 40 F – 65 F. Failure to generate enough DO is a seasonal problem like aeration, exhibited every summer when the surface water temperature reaches 75 F – 90 F. Like all mechanical aeration and water pumps, you cannot ensure minimal safe livewell DO saturation with air or the Oxygenator™ in heavily stocked livewells. Water pumps only pump water and air pumps only pump air… air and water is not oxygen regardless of how mush air and water you pump in the summer. The water temperature sensor (the brain of the electrolyzer is a thermometer) cycles the unit on and off intermittently, the amount of oxygen that’s generated is strictly controlled by livewell water temperature not by the oxygen needs of livewells full of fish or live bait. Add ice to cool the water and the unit cycles less generating less oxygen whether the well contains (1) three pounds of fish, (10} five pounds of fish or (15) fifteen pounds of live baitfish. Unlike standard professional fish transporters dissolved oxygen standards for transport DO protocols, livewell stocking densities are not a consideration for oxygen production and is of no concern with the Oxygenator™. That major design feature, a real plus to save electricity and battery power, can be absolutely deadly in the summer. You can not increase the volume of 100% oxygen the unit produces and delivers which exposes an extremely limiting water quality factor like you’ve experienced with mechanical aeration: insufficient safe oxygenation. DISSOLVED OXYGEN SATURATION RATE: Oxygenator™ literature claims to generate 80% DO saturation in 20 minutes in freshwater livewells, [no fish or bait in livewell water consuming oxygen, livewell stocking density -0-.]. This sounds great, right? How do you think 80% DO Saturation in 20 minutes with an Oxygenator™ squares with any standard aerator or livewell water pump? FACT: With no fish or bait in the livewell [livewell stocking density -0-.] and the standard mechanical aerators livewell pump running perfectly, 80% DO saturations or greater are easily reached within several minutes in summer livewell water. Even Mr. and Ms. Bubbles’ air pumps and bubblers can and will achieve 80% DO saturation under the same conditions in a few minutes in livewell water devoid of live bait and fish. Oxygenator™ is popular with these freshwater boat manufacturers, OEM and by Bass Pro, Cabela’s and other major Big Box Fishing stores. Triton Boats Ranger Boats G3 Boats Nitro Boats Champion Boats Skeeter Boats Tracker Boats Stratos Boats Bass Cat Boats Crestliner Boats Legend Boats Crestliner Boats Starcraft Marine Procraft Boats Weld Pro Aluminum Boats Yar-Craft Boats Phoenix Bass Boats U2 LIVEWELL ADDITIVE Oxygenator™ U2 instructions boldly state DO NOT USE THIS DEVICE IN SALTWATER LIVEWELLS OR BAIT TANKS and DO NOT USE SALT OR ANY LIVEWELL CHEMICALS or LIVEWELL WATER CONDITIONERS THAT CONTAIN SALT. Most livewell additives and chemicals contain salt, electrolytes that aid osmoregulation. U2 and Salt Water U2 livewell additives are the only additives recommended for safe use with the Oxygenator™ by the manufacture. U2 literature stated the formulation contains essential electrolytes. “Electrolyte solutions are normally formed when a physiological salt is dissolved into a solvent (water).” What are the “essential electrolytes in livewell chemicals and formulations? Combinations of primary ions compose physiological electrolytes. Ions of Sodium (Na+), Chloride (Cl−), Potassium (K+), Calcium (Ca2+), magnesium Mg2+), Hydrogen Phosphate (HPO42−), and Hydrogen Carbonate (HCO3−). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolyte Before you turn on an Oxygenator™ it is essential that you KNOW beyond any doubt whether the livewell chemical or additive you added to your livewell water contains any salt compounds. If you are ever in doubt if any livewell additive contains salt, taste it. If you detect a salty taste, the formulation probably contains salt… Don’t turn-on your Oxygenator™. CAUTION: Many livewell chemical manufacturers claim their fish saver livewell formulations and chemicals consist of “food grade” ingredients and may be used on food fish. Many of these products are clearly not FDA approved for use on food fish for human consumption and should never be used on tournament gamefish that are released alive after the tournament. Tournament catch and release gamefish are used for food fish for many fishermen, their wives and children. Upon your request, any ethical livewell chemical manufacture should provide a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) or complete list of formulation ingredients upon your request. All the ingredients in the MSDS should be FDA approved for use on food fish for human consumption. It’s a public healthy issue and ethical statement regarding any concern for fellow fishermen and families that may catch and eat that fish you released yesterday after the tournament – The fish that you soaked 7-8 hours in the chemical bath in your livewell. A FISH HEALTH FACT: Hydrogen gas combines with other elements (metabolic waste) in livewell water forming noxious and very toxic hydrogen sulfide that becomes corrosive when exposed to salt, (hydrogen chloride). This is what I have found so far.
  6. StriperSurg – I fish mostly with bunker, shad (threadfins and Gizzards) and sometimes with Atlantic Golden Croakers. Our water is hot here in the summer, we net bait fish in shallow 90 F water this time of year, got to be real careful hypothermia especially when they go back into the hot water on the hook, they last seconds, not minutes back in the hot water. Alpha – I certainly do not intend to put you on the spot, I think about stuff like this. You certainly don’t have to answer any of these questions on the forum, but this is just for food for thought. In your opinion, what do you think the live bait killer really is in warm summer livewell – the warm livewell water or livewell hypoxia (low dissolved oxygen in aerated livewells that is not safe)? I think the hypoxia is the killer, the exact same way hypoxia kills people, dogs and cats. Fish live all summer in warm/hot shallow water. Sometimes we see a large fish kill in the environment caused by lack of oxygen…. Big shad kills in reservoirs and canals. I believe your right about the low oxygen problem; so again in your opinion, just how much dissolved oxygen would you consider “safe” in your livewell when you are transporting only 1 bunker, 25 big Mack’s or even 50 bunker in a 30 gallon livewell? How much oxygen is not cryptic, there are solid numerical value for safe dissolved oxygen requirements necessary during all live fish transport. All Federal and State Fish hatcheries know exactly how much dissolved oxygen is required for every live fish transport… there’s no guessing about it. And their fish do not die and never get sick like our live bait fish do in our livewells. They do not use ice to chill their transport water either. They do use salt. Is there any difference between “baits of “less quality” and “half dead baits?” To me, that’s about the same thing. Personally I like the highest quality bait I can make. How many “monster mackerels” can you safely transport in a 20 gallon livewell all day? I don’t fish with mackerel. I'm not familiar with them. “The truth is most boats come with crappy stock live wells.” I might disagree a little here, just so we are comparing apples to apples and stay focused… let’s use the definition of a “Livewell” as defined by wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livewell I think most boat livewells are really crappy too because they cannot, do not and will not maintain minimal safe water quality in the summer. The box you put the bait in is not toxic nor does it leak… the livewell box does exactly what its engineers designed the box to do, hold water and fish. It’s the inability of the box (livewell) to insure and maintain minimal livewell water quality that makes most boat livewells so crappy in the summer. The bait dies in the box. Bernzy – Just wondering how much money do you spend on these livewell chemicals in the last 5 years? Here’s a real Scientific opinion about livewell chemicals: It’s your money. Effectiveness of Livewell Additives on Largemouth Bass Survival http://www.fwspubs.org/doi/full/10.3996/092010-JFWM-037 Journal of Fish and Wildlife Management: June 2011, Vol 2. No 1. pp.22-28.Doi:10.3996/092010-JFWM-037 Results show that the use of livewell water additives, such as salt and ice or their combination, does not significantly reduce tournament-related mortality. Largemouth bass may recover from capture, handling, and livewell confinement stress if water quality is good (Furimsky et al. 2003: Suski et al. 2004), regardless of livewell additives. Although we did not find significant differences in delayed mortality among the livewell Collectively, these results suggest that the addition of livewell additives does not enhance fish survival following competitive angling events. As a result, we encourage anglers to practice proper fish handling practices as well as maintain good water quality within livewells, as opposed to altering water quality with additives. [GOOD WATER QUALITY – back to Oxygenation of Livewells to Improve Survival of Tournament-Caught Bass Oxygenation of Livewells to Improve Survival of Tournament-Caught Bass by Fishery Biologist Randy Myers and Jason Driscoll TPWP, Inland Fisheries Division, San Antonio, TX Publication 6/2011 http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/fish/didyouknow/inland/livewells.phtml Dr. Cory Suski, Ecological Physiology http://fishlab.nres.illinois.edu/index.html He’s an Associate Professor in the Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Sciences at The University of Illinois at Urban Champaign. I can certainly justify buying a 50 bag of non-iodized stock salt occasionally for $5.00 a bag and using it with freshwater bait fish to help the fish with osmoregulation. I can also justify buying and using Amquel to de-chlorinate fresh tap water and control ammonia when keeping freshwater baits overnight or for a week. I can also justify using PolyAqua+ for abrasions and for treating infection when I’m keeping bait overnight or for a week or so. These chemicals are not expensive like POGEY SAVER™ POGEY-MENHADEN SALTWATER BAIT HOLDING FORMULA. I buy livewell chemicals from this aquaculture chemical supply company in California: Kordon (800) 877-0945 www.novalek/com They also have a great, friendly technical staff and talk fish care talk in fisherman’s lingo, no big techi-words that’s hard to understand. Tell them what kind of bait you use and ask them what you need for your bait… they have answers how to accomplish your goals and save a lot of money on bait chemicals. The call is FREE, the information is FREE… it a win-win deal. I don’t work for this company, but I sure like their chemicals and especially the help from their staff over the years.
  7. No offense StriperSurge, just a lifetime of observation and some fishery science. My grandfather said ice was the solution too. He had no idea that induced hypothermia with ice was really about reduce fish metabolism. But he knew that the real bad news comes as soon as the cooled bait is taken out of that artificially chilled livewell water, hooked up and tossed into that hot environmental water. He always told me, “son, fish fast before the bait dies because it’s not stay alive long in the summer.” He was always right about this every summer, he died at 89 years. He never had a name for this summer bait problem although he knew this problem well – the name of the problem is Acute Temperature Shock – most fishermen have noticed that their nice cool bait gets lethargic and really dies fast within minutes and seconds as soon as it’s tossed back into that hot environmental water from whence it came from, where it was just netted. Any acute temperature shock negatively affects bait fish health in captivity, in a livewell. The negative affect of induced hypothermia is less serious going from hot water to cooler water in a split second that going from cool to hot water in that same split second. You really can make a bad situation much worse icing down your livewell water and bait although it a common practice and often recommended every summer. Most live bait fishermen I know like to fish with healthy, aggressive, strong bait fish. They hate to fish with sloppy red-nosed bait and chunk dead bait. Surely in this 21st century there has to be a better ways to fix this summer bait problem than ice and artificial hypothermia. Thanks for the suggestion.
  8. Thanks for your suggestions and thoughts. Phantom21 - Why did you increase the size of the water pump and did a bigger pump fix your bait problem this summer? Alpha – Are you saying that, “Water that is 75F is going to kill off your bait quickly?”… live with it and chunk it when it dies, deal with dead bait. Or eliminate this dead bait problem by simply not overcrowding the livewell with too many baits. Both are consistent with what I’m learning on the net too. Do you think buying a bigger water pump (another $100 pump), pumping twice as much water through the livewell will fix this summer bait kill problem even when a livewell is overloaded with fish? Hammerz – I have tried the 12 V Power Bubbles and the Mr. Bubbles aerator too. I was impressed with the way the Power Bubbles looked and the name, the dual air stones and dual inline air filters in the tubing, self-contained and small batteries… but, most of all, I really liked the low price. Overall I would give this aerator an A, but, this aerator did not stop the live bait kill, it kept on dying. I liked the concept of all the air bubbles and even bought a bigger aerator, a bigger air pump that made 10 times more air bubbles. I even tried an aerator that produced millions of micro bubbles and the results were still the same… more dead bait in the summer. There was so many tiny micro bubbled my livewell water looked milky and I had to look close to even see the bait in the water. None of these bubble type aerators worked for me in the summer. They all worked OK in the cooler months, no problems keeping bait at least keeping them wiggling. The only time these bubble aerators worked great for me was in the dead of winter when the water was cold. In the last 2 summers I have probably spent/wasted $400 buying aerators and other stuff trying to keep live bait alive a few hours in the summer. The crunch is that I know this can be done because these country boys that haul live shiners to bait dealers are real live bait transporting experts. They never have any problems transporting their live bait and they don’t haul 1 bait per gallon of water either. They really overcrowd their livewells. They often haul 200 baits or more per gallon of water for many hours, often all day. Their bait is excellent, never sick or dead upon deliver, but they keep bait alive and haul it all day for a living. Dead and sickly red nose bait fish is not an option for them like us that just puts up with this mess every summer. I use a 20 gallon well and I often overcrowd my livewell… and my live bait is usually either dead or too sloppy to fish with by noon and the fishing trip is over. The death and dying in my livewell is much worse at night. Sometimes I haul my bait in a 48 qt. ice chest too. It’s really hard for me to keep only 20 live baits in my 20 gallon livewell and only 10 baits in my 48 qt. ice chest when I have just netted 100 baits with the 1st throw and live bait are harder to get when the water is hot in the summer. I just hate buying them knowing that most will die soon and I got to fish fast before they all die. Fishing with chunked-dead bait is just not las productive fishing with good live bait unless your shark fishing or fishing for blue cats. I have found many references about transporting live bait on the net. All say do not stock more than 1 bait per gallon of livewell water. That overstocking a livewell results in oxygen deprivation, suffocation and livewell mortality. This live bait killer is common in the summer when the water gets hot… >75 F. This falls in right line with what Alpha says too. So what really causes the nasty foam in the livewell that you scoop out? You never, ever see this nasty foam in 10 gallon home aquariums with square 90 degree corners full of fish. And you never see a stupid little aquarium get trapped in the square corners of an aquarium and die… never. I appreciate your time and comments. Thanks again Here’s a challenging question: Why is a guppy in a rectangular aquarium smarter than a bunker in a square corner livewell? The guppy thrives and the bunker gets trapped, red-nose and dies in a box with 90 degree corners. Bunkers are just retarded little fish.
  9. Do any of you ever have any problems with dying and sloppy live bait this time of the summer? Live bait is expensive to buy and to catch, by noon most of it is dead, crab bait or red-nosed, sickly and to sloppy to fish with. I've been Googling this problem and it seems to be a summertime lo-O2 problem only when the livewell contains to many baits. I really want to bring more than 1 bait per gallon of livewell water... what's your experience in June, July and August? Looks like the solution is either put less bait in the livewell bait or put more O2 into the livewell water. If you put 51-52 baitfish in 50 gallons of water and overcrowd the livewell, the bait gets sick and dies in short order in the morning. I never have any bait problems or livewell problems in the fall, winter or spring when the water is cool/cold... problems only in the summer when the water reaches 75 F or so. Thanks Bob
  10. Long Legged Mack-Daddy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY6IZsZt1xw
  11. Thanks for the welcome. " Its a great day to whoop somebodys ass" -
  12. I'm, Bob - the newest guy on the board this morning. I'm looking forward to meeting new fishermen and sharing fishing knowledge about fishing. I fish freshwater and saltwater year round targeting many different species. Sometimes I'm a meat hunter and other times I sport fish, depends if we're having a fish-fry at our men's class at church or the Lodge or just enjoying the day with the kids fishing for fun. Might catch something, might not, but we will surely have a great day on the water.
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