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Killiefish

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  1. Most likely it is operator error. Are you forcing or overpowering the forward cast? Accelerating too abruptly to the "hard*" stop? Not maintaining SLP. Creating some kind of side-to-side or twisty movement as well as (or instead of?) a straight ahead forward/back movement? Have you seen a chiropracter? This rod is very very stiff but has a very thin and responsive tip, and any casting issues may amplify the problem. My guess is it's a combination of operator errors, but without a video it is impossible to evaluate. * just how are you interpreting and implementing a "hard stop"
  2. I don't see how a specific model of rod or guide layout could cause that. I could see line slap causing an issue, but the line isn't going through the guides at that point, just moving back and forth through the air (false casting, no shoot). So can't even be the tip top guide if as it seems the line isn't moving through it....so...very strange. Damaged blank? Clouser hit? I'd look for signs of damage to the blank or maybe a crack in the ferrule connection.
  3. Beware that a skagit head that heavy, when reversed, is STILL going to be like casting a brick, without some kind of front taper added. Instead of 540g reversed, I'd go 480g reversed skagit (int or float), with a 120-140g (int or float) tip. The total should be 600-620g, not heavier, I think but that's just a guess. It might still be too clunky. Wear head protection... The int skagit heads and tips work better for me on the short TH rods. YMMV. Maybe try to find a Rage 600g floater used. They do show up. Then try adding a light tip. Much better "loopage" as you say, with the right kind of taper.
  4. Also, if I were looking at the stock surf spin rods mentioned, to cast 550-600g, so far it would be the Okuma 12ft medium (original Rockaway), and/or (from the looks of it) the 12ft 1-4 Okuma Nesika. 12ft with the right taper and materials is fine and dandy as far as my use goes. I prefer 11ft if casting off rocks, jetties, steep banks. My suspicion is that the Nesika is the slightly less powerful series, regardless of the stated x-to-y oz ratings. The Nesika's taper looks great. The tip doesn't look thin like the Hawaiian rods. I'd give both 12ft Nesikas a spin as they are so cheap, but I have too many rods. I like the idea of the 12ft Nesika 1-4 being only $98. How can it be that cheap? Tempting...
  5. Same rod but 11ft and also 12ft? Whoa! that's some kind of magic! Let me examine my magic fairy hat. Hummmunuh Hummunah (that's the sound the hat makes)... The hat just spit out a piece of paper. It says: rod is inert thing...can't cast itself. LOL. O.K. I give up...what was the answer you wanted. I can try to ask it again... Kudos to Mike O. for answering the question for me, so I don't have to think too hard about it.
  6. I've not seen the Okuma Hawaiian Custom rods before. My experience is only with the original Rockaway rods (now own 3 of them, used only for spinning lures and baitfishing). The original thought I had that the 11ft 3/4 to 3oz rod (model RA-S-1102M) would be a good candidate for conversion to a short TH surf fly rod. However: -- in surf casting for perch, etc. I often use 4 oz with this rod, under full power. I think it's more of a 1-4oz rod (at least mine is). It doesn't even like 1 oz much. -- someone else who has this same rod says that it barely loads with 600g heads, and he prefers 700g -- and reports that the resulting line speed is terrifying. Maybe my 660 Rage (in hover/int) would be the ticket for that rod's blank. Now that I found where I put my 660g Rage, I might try it out, no reel just running line and head at the local park... I bet it's bang on with that line. Also the head length is perfect - 33ft. Personally I'd go lighter, not heavier with the Okumas, although that Hawaiian blank is a nice color. Update: In the photo, I think whatever the exact model/rod designation that is, the top maybe 2-3ft look too thin to me, and cutting rods down more than 3-4 inches often ruins their properties...You might end up cutting more and end up with an 11+ foot rod... On the other hand I found a Daiwa Ardito (medium not MH) 11ft 5 piece and it likes 590g-630g apprx. I can go lighter with it, so ~ 550g is the lower limit. The Daiwa rods have no believable lure rating. They say something like 3-5 oz or 2-6 (can't remember). That's BS. The Medium Ardito is a 1-2.5 oz rod, and the MH is ~1.5-4oz. Esa (Crunch) tried the MH model and I think it needed at least 700-750g, maybe more. I consider the MH model not useable for TH conversion. I don't like the 12ft Daiwa Emcasts for conversion either. I might look into the 12ft Okuma Medium which says (I think) 3/4 - 3oz on the blank. It seems less stiff in the top rod section than the 11ft Medium (wiggled it briefly at Sportsman's Whorehouse). Don't assume anything until you take one of these rods to the park and throw a variety of line weights. My best advice is to start low, use a scale to actually measure the lines' actual weights. Airflo heads are often heavier by 10-20g for ex.
  7. Agree with Mike that if you are just starting to learn to overhead cast, using a scandi taper (or shooting head of around 33-35ft, similar to the two tapers above -- example Airflo Rage and/or Airflo shooting head) will be easier than clunky Skagit plus tips. That's unless your stated goal is to be fishing large and heavy weighted flies from something like a jetty or steep beach with obstacles, and distance is secondary. For example, along the lines of what SOL poster TheGraveyardShift here does from the Cape Cod Canal banks. Even then, you may be asking for a disaster if your basic casting mechanics suck. The Intermediate Skagit heads (like those from Scientific Angler) often cast much better than floating Skagit heads because they have a thinner diameter and less abrupt taper. They have less wind resistance, and they play better with tips. The most recent version of these is the Scientific Angler Freightliner Skagit Intermediate, but I prefer the earlier "Third Coast" series (2nd image below). Add a tip that's 1/5th to 1/4 the weight of the head. See below for taper diagrams. These can sometimes be found on sale. Slow down a bit and feather the end of the cast if needed. Must add a tip!!! The Scientific Anglers UST short series of heads casts much easier with more control than any of the Skagit heads. These are based on a Scandi short taper and are deadly in the heavier sizes and some of them like the one shown are dual (graduated) density. Some find the lower weight ones difficult but that's only if they are used to heavy weight forward lines, or Skagit + tips. These do not need tips added to them, and the lengths of the heads are typically longer (~31-35+ft) One reason people are/were even considering Skagit plus tip solution to begin with is that for a long...long time, that was the easiest (or only) way to achieve the total grain weights we wanted to suit really powerful rods, without welding two or more lines together. Also there were few or no intermediate lines above around 550g. That's no longer the case (evidence: 600-660g Airflo Rage head shown). Any time you change from one system of lines to another, or mess around with the type and weight of the heads you are using you will need to adjust your casting (timing, etc.). But you need to start with good form or else bad things will surely happen. Below 1) Freightliner Intermediate 2) Third Coast Intermediate 3) UST Scandi Shot (dual density int/slow sink). All by Sci. Ang.
  8. That first .pdf may not work. PolyLeader_Specs.pdf
  9. Here are some tip weights. Airflo polys and Rio scandi short. RIO Mow/imow not shown. The lightest of 10 ft Mows start at around 110-120g and go up from there. PolyLeader_Specs.pdf
  10. And here's the taper profile of the Rage Hover/Intermediate (in 600g) compared to the Airflo Tactical Shooting head taper with an added polyleader (grey part in front). Can see why only a light poly would be useful on the Rage.
  11. I don't think these are that easy to find. Sierra had some and they sold out pretty fast. Airflo Rage 660g hover/int head is 33ft. Whether that length of slow sinking head is useful to those of you who fish "out front" I dunno. But, it exists. The Airflo page only lists a 600g floating Rage, no 660g in full float.
  12. I can confirm that the Rage heads will work with long leaders (start with a thick mono section, or furled leader) or poly tips. When I say light poly tips I am talking about the Airflo polyleaders that come in 5ft, (8ft?), 10ft, 12ft lengths. They come in clear intermediate and used to be available in "tarpon", "saltwater", "salmon steelhead" and "trout" weights. The "Tarpon" ones were only 5ft and heavy (no longer available). With 600g Rage you are probably going to want to use either a saltwater or salmon/steelhead poly. The length may vary depending on sink or int but in general I prefer the intermediate. They actually lift off the water pretty well. I also use them with the older Rio iFlight heads. There's plenty of confirmation, Mike, on the use of polys, or long mono leaders with the Rage heads on spey + pages + dotcom. For overhead use with 600g, I'd probably go with as heavy a polyleader as possible, but I would not hesitate also to use a 10ft, "Light" iMow or Mow tip if going with the 600g or heavier. I have the 450, 480 and 580 rage heads. Also the 600g hover/int. The Hover/Int versions are interesting, and are available up to 660g (!!!). A user on that other site that I mentioned above says (this was even before the Hover/Int versions were released): "I use a Rage for all my beach fishing, as well as summer steelhead and coho in the rivers. Being a compact, hybrid version of a skagit/scandi, it punches through the wind much better than a full scandi. I use tapered, or even straight mono leaders, as well as polyleaders up to 6 ips, with no problems. My rule of thumb is to match tip/leader length to the rod length. The Rage doesn't like heavier T-tips, or weighted intruders...When the time comes for them, I change to a skagit switch head. I use Rages on 11' switches, up to my 13'6" MKS, all with great results." Note: I have no doubt that the 600-660g ones can throw even heavier tips, if needed. Another user there says: "I think they are great lines. I pretty much use them as a short belly driver with a variety of poly's and tips up to 15' and 95 grains. They single and snake very well, not just for sustained anchor casts. Super versatile. Like Herk said, not a full on skagit driver but more powerful than a scandi. Again, I don't think the 600-660g versions had been available when that user said this. 600g to 660g Rage can handle 100-120g tips, in my opinion. For overhead use in surf I think one might want to stick to full floating polys or short (8-10ft) intermediate tips, or 10-12ft lengths of straight (heavy) mono. You might note that I have mentioned the Rage heads several times in this thread and elsewhere in SOL/FF forum. YMMV.
  13. One thing I've found and I don't know if it's a rule or an absolute but most of my TH rods like 465g heads (overhead use). The 11wt Airflow shooting heads in particular. I can throw these well on almost all of my TH rods, regardless if they are rated 8/9wt, 9/10wt or 10/11wt. I have no idea why this is so... If I go heavier, it seems to take a rod that is so much stiffer and unlike the others that it's like a step function in math. Not linear. Like I said I have only one rod that consistently handles > 600g. Its a spinning rod conversion. My Beulah 9/10 can't touch it for handling really heavy lines.
  14. Folks, By searching "Beulah 9/10", "Beulah 8/9". " " " 7/8" and and "Beulah Surf" on this site and clicking "Everywhere" you will find a range of line weights that users felt the rod(s), including all of the original Beulah Surf rods (7/8, 8/9 and 9/10) needed or can handle. For example, Snapper wrote: "I have some experience with the whole line up of Beulah two handers. My go to rod is the 8/9, with an OBS 11 W at 465 grs. And it shoots very well, even in adverse conditions. With the 9/10, you may wish to go higher than the OBS 12W (525 grs). I sold it because I could not find any integrated lines in heavier weights. I use a Speedster 4 on my 8/9." Snapper (above) who has used all three of the original Beulah Surf rods, should be considered more knowledgeable than most and he ended up with the lightest of the three as his preferred Beulah. I think Brian (moderator) also preferred the 7/8. Others, like me, have indicated that the 9/10 of this rod (original Beulah Surf) can handle an OBS 12wt (no longer available) but prefers an OBS 11wt (465g), which is what Snapper used on the 8/9. Still others felt that the 7/8 Beulah was capable of throwing 450g+ grain shooting heads which is darn close to 465g... So there's HIGH variability, either in the ways people are casting these rods, or in the rods themselves, or both. The weight ranges changed when Beulah transitioned this into the "Opal" Series. These rods were not any beefier than the original "Surf" series, in fact they are lighter in construction and the blanks are from what I've heard "faster" - hence "tippier." Also, they went from three rod models (7/8, 8/9, and 9/10) to two (7/8 and 9/10). A user on a different site (spey + pages + dotcom) who has used both seriesof rods indicated that the newer rods throw the same lines as the originals, absent the 8/9, but the newer Opal rods were lighter, with mostly cosmetic changes, and no real differences in rod power. My experience in general is that a trend toward lighter blanks may indicate a loss of power, not a gain, thinner blanks, and an increase in fragility, leading to more breakage. I expect a greater number of people have broken one of the Opals than the original Beulah Surf rods. Here's what Beulah recommends for the Opal rod in 9/10wt: "Beulah Serum 550, Rio Outbound Short 12wt , Rio Outbound 12wt, SA streamer express or 450-500 grain shooting head" (so that's a range from 450-550 for overhead casting) This suggests these are NOT rated single hand. These are rated by Beulah as three (or more) line weights above single hand 9/10wt rods, i.e., rated for shooting heads or spey (two hand) rated. The fact that Beulah also waffles on the grain weight ranges of the shooting heads for the 9/10 vs OBS or Serum lines makes me think that even they don't have a firm clue. Is there some massive amount of variability even within each rod designation? Are there any reasons to trust their line recommendations? Has anyone here tested the Beulah rods (original or Opal series) using the common cents testing method? If not maybe that will help determine why these rods are so fickle or variable. I can't find any better explanation for the differing opinions on these rods. The resulting information on all of these rods gives me one conclusion: it depends.
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