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Pipeline through the Pinelands (barrens)

post #1 of 59
Thread Starter 
Anyone else see this on the news!? What a terrible idea!! Spread the word... No pipeline through the Nj Pinelands!
post #2 of 59
Can you say, "cha-Ching!"
post #3 of 59
Thread Starter 
I know... Sell out the pine barrens. Real responsible. I hope the jersey devil gets those fools
post #4 of 59

Lets run pipelines, drill everywhere and also frack everywhere. We can become like the middle east, sounds sweet.

post #5 of 59
Largest drinking aquifer east of the Mississippi...Yeah great place for a pipeline.
Pinelands Commission won't allow it that's sure.
post #6 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by bido View Post

Largest drinking aquifer east of the Mississippi...Yeah great place for a pipeline.
Pinelands Commission won't allow it that's sure.

I hope your right, however, I think the pipeline cometh.
post #7 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bido View Post

Largest drinking aquifer east of the Mississippi...Yeah great place for a pipeline.
Pinelands Commission won't allow it that's sure.

I hope not..
post #8 of 59
Your post got me interested in the project. I found the following article published in an Atlantic City Newspaper in early November, 2013.

Just say the word "pipeline," and many environmentalists immediately go ballistic. And at the moment, a proposed 22-mile South Jersey Gas pipeline through the Pine Barrens is the subject of environmentalists' wrath.
More often than not, we are on the environmentalists' side. But they are hurting their own cause on this one - and giving credence to those who believe there is too often more passion than logic to the environmental movement.

The 24-inch pressurized natural-gas pipeline, which will run from Millville to Upper Township, will allow the B.L. England power plant in Beesleys Point to be powered with clean-burning gas instead of coal and oil. Currently, the plant is a major polluter that does not meet state and federal clean-air guidelines. Converting the plant to natural gas will cut harmful emissions dramatically. That's a concrete environmental plus that clearly outweighs the opponents' hypothetical and misguided concerns.

The pipeline has been approved by the state Board of Public Utilities and the state Department of Environmental Protection. The plan is now awaiting approval from the Pinelands Commission.

The commission exists to control development in the Pine Barrens - certainly a worthy goal. Opponents say the construction of the pipeline is a violation of the Pinelands Comprehensive Management Plan. But the fact is, that plan includes a mechanism for the approval of projects that satisfy a compelling public need. And this project clearly does that.

The region needs the power the B.L. England plant provides, and converting it to natural gas is the best way to ensure that it operates as cleanly as possible. Furthermore, any Pinelands Commission approval will require South Jersey Gas to undertake measures to offset the pipeline's impact; this could include permanent land protection or monetary payments.

Much of the opposition to the $90 million pipeline is the result of wishful thinking: The plant can be shut down and replaced with wind turbines and solar panels, the opponents say. The location is perfect, and the connection to the regional power grid is already there, they insist.

But no combination of wind and solar power at the site can replace the electricity that the plant produces. The wind does not always blow and the sun does not always shine, so green power must always be backed up with conventional power. Natural-gas plants are the best way to provide that rapid backup, according to South Jersey Gas.

And the pipeline is not going to destroy the Pine Barrens. The line will run under and adjacent to already paved roads through Maurice River Township, Estell Manor and Upper Township. It will be subject to a host of federal and state regulations and inspection requirements.

True, we all know accidents happen, and if this were going to be an oil pipeline, we'd likely have more concerns.
But converting B.L. England to natural gas is a win for the environment, and it is unrealistic to think the plant could be replaced with sun and wind power. The Pinelands Commission should approve the project.

******************************************

I also looked at the 22 question Memo put out by the Pinelands Commission. They are looking for ways to thwart the project. Look it up. It wouldn't transfer to this format.

For those of you who are against it, How would you counter the above article's intent that the Pinelands Commission should approve the project?
Edited by RJ - 12/3/13 at 3:01am
post #9 of 59
Everyone screamed about the Alaskan pipeline years ago. It was built and Alaska and its caribou survived. If we are talking about changing a power plant over from coal to natural gas, build the damned line. We'll be better off for it.

As for drilling and tracking, if we drill more we would not be dependent on the Middle East for so much of our oil. Fracking? I have a cousin with a working farm and a friend who owns land in Towanda PA. Both have allowed drilling on their land and it has proven to be a financial boon to them. It also is not messing up the environment.

Some folks gotta' stop listening to the tree huggers. We have to utilize our own natural resources. Then we can get our asses out of the MIddle East.
post #10 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by bido View Post

Largest drinking aquifer east of the Mississippi...Yeah great place for a pipeline.
Pinelands Commission won't allow it that's sure.

The pinelands commission is for it.. They're being paid $8 million to purchase and preserve additional lands to offset any environmental issues caused by the pipeline. Whether or not they do that (use the $ accordingly) is to be seen. The Pinelands Preservation Alliance (PPA) has come out against, however, I don't believe they have much authority..




Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ View Post


And the pipeline is not going to destroy the Pine Barrens. The line will run under and adjacent to already paved roads through Maurice River Township, Estell Manor and Upper Township. It will be subject to a host of federal and state regulations and inspection requirements.


If this is true, then I don't see a major impact, but the bigger issue is that it's a foot in the door to the most undeveloped natural area in the state. What's next? and after that? and after that? Every path, road, pole, etc creates an edge in the forest which changes the ecology. A few here and there are probably not a big deal, but year after year they add up. I'm a realist and I know we need a safe and stable supply of fuel, but there's no way this should be just rubber stamped and given a green light without at least understanding what the consequences will be, and there will be consequences. The question are... What do we gain? What do we lose? Is it worth it in the long run?
post #11 of 59
Thread Starter 
Great input everyone. And that was a great article... I'm all for cleaner more efficient energy. however, I'm a hunter and our family has land in upstate Pa. I can't tell you how bad the fracking has affected the deer herds in the area. They (the deer) have since moved on to more remote areas. There is a ton of whitetail in the Pinelands as well and they will seek other areas... Most likely on more residential property. Additionally, they obviously can't guarantee there will never be issues with the pipeline, god forbid there ever is a leak. There's def something very appealing to me regarding preserving the land so our children and grandchildren will be able to enjoy and see they land as we once did... Just bc the pipeline is underground doesn't mean it won't have an affect on the environment. It seems like a lost battle for preservation... What's next after the pipeline?
post #12 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS Needle View Post

Anyone else see this on the news!? What a terrible idea!! Spread the word... No pipeline through the Nj Pinelands!

Will more land will be taken ,and off limits to the public,. Whos going to police this pipeline 24-7?

post #13 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by SG1 View Post

The pinelands commission is for it.. They're being paid $8 million to purchase and preserve additional lands to offset any environmental issues caused by the pipeline. Whether or not they do that (use the $ accordingly) is to be seen. The Pinelands Preservation Alliance (PPA) has come out against, however, I don't believe they have much authority..
If this is true, then I don't see a major impact, but the bigger issue is that it's a foot in the door to the most undeveloped natural area in the state. What's next? and after that? and after that? Every path, road, pole, etc creates an edge in the forest which changes the ecology. A few here and there are probably not a big deal, but year after year they add up. I'm a realist and I know we need a safe and stable supply of fuel, but there's no way this should be just rubber stamped and given a green light without at least understanding what the consequences will be, and there will be consequences. The question are... What do we gain? What do we lose? Is it worth it in the long run?

SG1 - If as reported the pipeline will run under or alongside highways that were an impact years ago with no visible or provable negative results. The PPA is a environmental organization and they do have the best interest of the pinelands in mind. I wonder how many members of SOL belong to the PPA?

If you can find the PPA reaction to the Newspaper article I posted above, could you post it here, so we get to look at the other side of the story?

Lou, I too have roots in PA and agree that the fracking that is going on there is a positive thing for that part of PA and the Nation. I also believe the LGN loading dock 17 miles off the Coast of NJ and Brooklyn will generate jobs and export revenue we need to get back to an affluent America when the unemployed number is below 4% and money for food stamp shrinks to its Clinton Era level. The off shore LNG proposed terminal is at the end of the shortest pipeline out of the country. Can you imagine building a pipeline from Lackawanna County, PA to Texas to avoid building the Terminal off the east coast? It will be over the horizon and a safe distance from both NJ & NY.
post #14 of 59
Atlantic City Press 11-27-2013

South Jersey Gas will pay the Pinelands Commission $8 million to build a controversial natural gas pipeline to fuel the B.L. England power plant under a draft memorandum of agreement released by the commission Wednesday.

The gas pipeline proposal along with the draft MOA between South Jersey Gas and the Board of Public Utilities will be the subject of a public hearing 5 p.m. Dec. 9 at the Galloway Township Municipal Building.

The agreement is needed because a portion of the pipeline will run through environmentally sensitive areas where such development is normally banned.

"I honestly think the agency is selling its soul for $8 million," said Carleton Montgomery, executive director of the Pinelands Preservation Alliance. "It's late afternoon, before Thanksgiving, and this is the first time we've seen any of this language. So everybody is supposed to be prepared a week from Monday to say their final words on this topic?"

South Jersey Gas earlier this year filed a formal proposal with the commission to build the 24-mile, 24-inch high-pressure pipeline between Maurice River Township and Beesleys Point, Upper Township.

As part of the draft MOA, South Jersey Gas will pay $8 million, with $7,250,000 of that going to a Pinelands land acquisition fund, $250,000 would go to the commission specifically to finance the building of a Pinelands education center in New Lisbon and $500,000 would go to the commission to pay for education and outreach programs.

The route, which Pinelands Commission Executive Director Nancy Wittenberg last week said was the only route under consideration, tracks through 15 miles of land under commission jurisdiction. Included within the 15 miles is 10.2 miles within forest area, 2 miles in rural development area and 2.8 miles in the pinelands village area. About 7 miles of the pipeline also would go through federally designated Pinelands National Reserve area, according to the MOA.

"This draft agreement shows that if you have $8 million of the public's money, you can have your way with the Pinelands Commission. If not, you have to follow the rules," Montgomery said. "The commission is trying to manipulate its rules in order to avoid the stringent requirements for a waiver of strict compliance by trying to equate this case with a public development."

The commission has developed similar MOAs before, including one in 2004 with Atlantic City Electric and Conectiv to build power lines along a right of way next to the Garden State Parkway. In that case, the utilities paid $13 million to the commission in order to build about 50 miles of power lines. The commission created a new district that allowed utility lines in the right of way along the parkway.

In addition to serving as the primary fuel source for the B.L. England plant, the draft MOA states that the pipeline also would serve as a back-up source of natural gas to Cape May County. Additionally, the draft MOA states that, when the Oyster Creek Generating Station, a nuclear power plant in Lacey Township, Ocean County, closes in 2019, the B.L. England plant will be needed to provide electricity to the southern portion of the state unless additional transmission lines are built.

Pinelands rules bar public infrastructure development within forest area unless the infrastructure specifically benefits the residents of the immediate area. The MOA notes that the pipeline does not meet that requirement, which is why the agreement between the private gas company and the BPU is needed.

For months, dozens of advocates for and against the pipeline have packed committee and commission meetings. Last week, Wittenberg, the commission's executive director, announced a seemingly accelerated timeline for the MOA to be unveiled, discussed, commented upon and, potentially, voted on by early January.

The policy and implementation committee will have a formal presentation on the MOA at 9:30 a.m. Wednesday, with the public hearing to be held less than a week later. According to the public notice on the commission's website, the public comment period will end Dec. 13. Wittenberg said last week that the soonest the proposal could go up for a vote would be at the commission's Jan. 10 meeting.

Check out www wolfenotes dotcom

Bill Wolfe is a member here
post #15 of 59
Thanks for the update, feetinsand. The public Hewaring should be interesting. Has the location of the Public hearing been published yet?
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