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Send ASMFC comments about reducing striper mortality

post #1 of 55
Thread Starter 
jjgilmor@gw.dec.state.ny.us
paugustine3@verizon.net
pboyle@nysenate.gov

Dear Commissioner:

When the Striped Bass Management Board meets next week, please support the drafting of an addendum to the striped bass management plan which revises the fishing mortality reference points in such plan from the current Ftarget=0.30/Fthreshold=0.34 to those recommended in the recent benchmark stock assessment, Ftarget=0.180/Fthreshold=0.219.

Since reducing striped bass mortality is the most critical issue presented by the addendum, I make no other suggestions. If Ftarget and Fthreshold are reduced to the sustainable levels proposed by the benchmark assessment, all other issues will work themselves out over time.

I am a recreational fisherman who has actively and continually participated in the striped bass fishery for about 45 years. Having fished for the species on a regular basis before, during and after the collapse of the late 1970s and 1980s, throughout the rebuilding period and through the current population decline, I have a good historical perspective on the fishery and on striped bass abundance. That perspective leads me to believe that meaningful and timely action to conserve the species needs to be taken now.

I am not going to exaggerate the current problems and predict a collapse such as the one that began about four decades ago; even under the worst assumptions, we still have sufficient time to avoid such an outcome. However, there are disturbing similarities between the current situation and what occurred then, not the least of which is the relatively poor recruitment that has occurred over most of the last decade. The dominant 2011 year class remains a cause for optimism; we had no such strong cohort when the stock collapsed the last time; at the same time never, even during the depths of the collapse, did we see a Maryland young-of-the-year index as low as we did in 2012. Thus, any optimism engendered by 2011’s successful spawn must be tempered by what followed immediately upon its heels. That is particularly true given data that suggests that warm winters lead to poor spawning success, for if climatologists’ predictions prove true, the future will see more warm winters than cold ones, and striped bass recruitment will likely suffer as a result. The current abundance of large fish left over from successful spawns in 1993, 1996, 2000 and 2003 may foster an illusion that all is well, but as was true in the mid-1970s, the lack of small fish coming up behind them tells a very different story.

The ultimate question is whether ASMFC is willing to manage striped bass in accordance with the best available scientific advice. The peer-reviewed striped bass stock assessment represents the closest thing to a gold standard that one will find in fisheries management, particularly since bass could be deemed a ‘data-rich” species; it is doubtful whether a more complete data set exists for any ASMFC-managed stock. At a time when some members of the fisheries advocacy community are arguing that federal managers should manage other species “like striped bass,” ASMFC must demonstrate that it is capable of managing striped bass in a sustainable manner and in accord with the best available science. Its failure to do so will not only have an adverse impact on striped bass abundance; it is likely to resound throughout the broader national fisheries debate as evidence that, absent strict legal guidelines, fisheries managers are incapable of preventing narrow parochial interests from trumping science-based management measures. It would be unfortunate if ASMFC allowed that to occur.
post #2 of 55
FIRE THAT MORON PAT AUGUSTINE WHO IS IN BED WITH THE PARTY BOAT AND COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN!!! That's a good start
post #3 of 55
From what I'm hearing, Pat has gotten back to some of the folks who sent comments, telling them that he was wrong in the past, now supports harvest reductions and will be taking action to protect the spawning stock.

We'll see on Tuesday, but right now, he seems to be trying to make the right noises.
post #4 of 55
Thread Starter 
^^^ He wrote me back as well. Didn't g that far, just said he hers me loud and clear.. I hope he sings a new tune...
post #5 of 55

 Here is what I sent pat Augustine this AM  {Please consider making Striper's a game fish in the next meetings ,they are in trouble from all the over harvesting and are more valuable than just a meal . Please don't let us relive the 80's it was a sad state for this great fish back then . Thanks Chris vat}                                                                                                                            Here was his reply  I see his mind is made up on the issue Sent 3 hours later by pat augustine {Chris:

Based on the status of the striped bass stock, it would be near impossible to push for gamefish status.  Please take the time to go to the ASMFC.gov website and get the facts.
  I agree, this is a valuable fish, but folks need a reality check and get away from the hyped up story the stock is going to crash.  If you want to talk about it call me at 631 928 1524.  Regards.Pat }

 Make your own judgement

post #6 of 55
As I've mentioned before, the message for this meeting is that the target fishing mortality rate in the management plan should be reduced to 0.180, and the threshold to 0.219. That's what the best available science supports, and that is what can help the bass right now.

Going down the "gamefish" road at this juncture is the surest way to get your letter thrown in the trash and disregarded. It might be a worthwhile goal in its own right, but it has already happened in the places where there is political support for it to happen, and it's not going to happen anywhere else--and most particularly at ASMFC--this year. When you look at the Management Board and count the votes, the support for "gamefish" status just isn't there. Unless you're Sen. Cruz, you don't start a fight that you know you can't win; while it might make you more popular with the people who already agree with you, it just turns off everyone else.

As Capt. John McMurray stated in the conclusion to his blog that's started at least a couple other threads on this site,

"The ASMFC annual meeting starts Oct 28th. There is still plenty of time to contact your state Commissioners and let them know how you feel about striped bass. The stock needs a clear and significant reduction in fishing mortality (Again, for God’s sake don’t mention gamefish or slot limits or it likely won’t get read). Managers just need to have the balls to push something close to a 50% reduction through. You can help: http://www.asmfc.org/about-us/commissioners. Please, take five minutes to write."

I do think that Pat is going to support some sort of change to the current regulations. Whether that change is going to be a straight mortality cut, or something else or in addition, I don't even want to guess.
post #7 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfcasterzx2 View Post

FIRE THAT MORON PAT AUGUSTINE WHO IS IN BED WITH THE PARTY BOAT AND COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN!!! That's a good start

Well,I just got off the phone with Pat Augustine I must have spoken to him for over an hour about fisheries management.I have to say I wasn't a fan of Pat over the years because we didn't get Game Fish Status for Stripers.To keep it short he gave me an education on the process to change a regulation and a synopsis of how difficult the process is.If you gave the guy a chance to explain in detail what's involved I think you MIGHT ??? change your opinion.I have to say I REALLY ENJOYED the conversation and do have a different perspective on the management of the fishery.He definitely knows there's are problems and is willing to make changes to help the stock recover but he is only one person.There is SOOOOOOO Much Bureaucratic BS and other states involved it's a difficult lengthy process.
post #8 of 55
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post #9 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWitek View Post

...for God’s sake don’t mention gamefish...

Personally I find that offensive; why bother to have "public comment."

Ask people outside of "fishing" if they think that having a price on the heads of the fish is going to equal conservation; i'd bet that the idea of a sustainable commercial fishery or one that is dominated by commercial interests would be immediately rejected. Its not necessarily a matter of who takes fish but what objective is paramount in the management of the fishery.
post #10 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by calfarmli View Post

Well,I just got off the phone with Pat Augustine I must have spoken to him for over an hour about fisheries management.I have to say I wasn't a fan of Pat over the years because we didn't get Game Fish Status for Stripers.To keep it short he gave me an education on the process to change a regulation and a synopsis of how difficult the process is.If you gave the guy a chance to explain in detail what's involved I think you MIGHT ??? change your opinion.I have to say I REALLY ENJOYED the conversation and do have a different perspective on the management of the fishery.He definitely knows there's are problems and is willing to make changes to help the stock recover but he is only one person.There is SOOOOOOO Much Bureaucratic BS and other states involved it's a difficult lengthy process.

Isn't this the guy who a couple of years ago pushed for an increase in the commercial quota?
post #11 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by rollincoal View Post

Personally I find that offensive; why bother to have "public comment."

Ask people outside of "fishing" if they think that having a price on the heads of the fish is going to equal conservation; i'd bet that the idea of a sustainable commercial fishery or one that is dominated by commercial interests would be immediately rejected. Its not necessarily a matter of who takes fish but what objective is paramount in the management of the fishery.

You comment on the matter being discussed. At this meeting, the question is whether mortality needs to be reduced, so that's what you address. Gamefish isn't on the agenda, and given the current political realities, mentioning it will hurt your chances of convincing folks to listen to your mortality arguments. Right now, if you can get a rep from Massachusetts or Rhode Island to support a mortality cut--and it looks as if the majority of those folks are leaning that way--you don't want to alienate him and maybe cause him to support the status quo because you're attacking his commercial fishery.

As the saying goes, you eat an elephant one step at a time. This is the time for mortality reductions. Next time, you can put gamefish on the agenda.
post #12 of 55
I appreciate your response, thank you.
post #13 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by calfarmli View Post

Well,I just got off the phone with Pat Augustine I must have spoken to him for over an hour about fisheries management.I have to say I wasn't a fan of Pat over the years because we didn't get Game Fish Status for Stripers.To keep it short he gave me an education on the process to change a regulation and a synopsis of how difficult the process is.If you gave the guy a chance to explain in detail what's involved I think you MIGHT ??? change your opinion.I have to say I REALLY ENJOYED the conversation and do have a different perspective on the management of the fishery.He definitely knows there's are problems and is willing to make changes to help the stock recover but he is only one person.There is SOOOOOOO Much Bureaucratic BS and other states involved it's a difficult lengthy process.
Cal, Don't be fooled by this guy. He just fed you BS to justify his actions and try and convince you otherwise so you can go away. Pat is in bed with the commercial sector, He pushed for an increase in quota. He is part of the mismanagement problem. He's not dumb, he knows how to patronize people with his words. Don't be gullible. It's the same as that moron president we have. He deliberately hurts the american people then goes on TV and manipulates the people in believeing his crimes are just. Wake up dude and really see what's going on around you. The striper fishery is a big money industry and Pat and people like him are profiting off of it. Is why he say's Gamefish is impossible!!!
post #14 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfcasterzx2 View Post

Cal, Don't be fooled by this guy. He just fed you BS to justify his actions and try and convince you otherwise so you can go away. Pat is in bed with the commercial sector, He pushed for an increase in quota. He is part of the mismanagement problem. He's not dumb, he knows how to patronize people with his words. Don't be gullible. It's the same as that moron president we have. He deliberately hurts the american people then goes on TV and manipulates the people in believeing his crimes are just. Wake up dude and really see what's going on around you. The striper fishery is a big money industry and Pat and people like him are profiting off of it. Is why he say's Gamefish is impossible!!!

It really was more about the process and issues I never looked at leading up to getting regulations passed. He will have his chance to prove himself at the hearings.We all know that gamefish status is NOT going to happen.On a positive note.He said that there is a serious investigation going on of fisherman illegally harvesting stripers in Fed waters, I hope people are E Mailing the people on the board and expressing their feeing on the issue!!!!!!

jjgilmor@gw.dec.state.ny.us
paugustine3@verizon.net
pboyle@nysenate.gov
post #15 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWitek View Post


You comment on the matter being discussed. At this meeting, the question is whether mortality needs to be reduced, so that's what you address. Gamefish isn't on the agenda, and given the current political realities, mentioning it will hurt your chances of convincing folks to listen to your mortality arguments. Right now, if you can get a rep from Massachusetts or Rhode Island to support a mortality cut--and it looks as if the majority of those folks are leaning that way--you don't want to alienate him and maybe cause him to support the status quo because you're attacking his commercial fishery.

As the saying goes, you eat an elephant one step at a time. This is the time for mortality reductions. Next time, you can put gamefish on the agenda.

Thanks CW for setting me strait don't want my idea's to stall any progress.  We can only hope for what's best

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