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Two Hand Fly Rods For Beach Blasting.

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linesida

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I'm looking at a Beulah Surf Rod for long rodding from the surf along the East Coast? Anyone had any experience with these? Tell me what your setup is (ie. length , weight and line types) and why I should get one for myself? Main things for me is I want something that will handle the wind up to 10 -12 knots, and want make me feel like I been waving a rebar stake all day. Also would like to be able to make 90-100  ft casts on flat days from the grit? I'm all ears try to be succinct in your responses. I


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linesida,

 

I think you know why you want a TH so I am not going to wear my typing fingers more than I need to. Not sure if the rod of your choice qualifies as a Blaster.

10 -12 knots is not such a big deal on a surf beach on the NE Coast of the USA. There is already a post on here called why a 2Hand Rod started by JohnP. That is a good place to start your quest. There are other threads to. One by Aussie Van on video clips of TH rod surf fly casting. Its probably on page two by now. So plenty of stuff to plough through.

Hope this is succinct enough for you.:D

Mike

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Perfect response Mike! I heading over that way now. But do you have any experience with Beulah Rods? I'm assuming your a two handed flyrod user already. I don't own one yet I'm gonna break in the club  here soon.

 

Linesida,

 

I have handled the Beulah rods. For me they are too short at 11 feet and also lack the power I need for OUt Front East Coast fishing. If you go through the TH posts on here you will get to see why I am not a huge fan of their TH rods. They will do a job in certain conditions but I need a general purpose TH that can cut it wherever I fish it.

We are having a bit of a TH get together on June 1 Cape Cod if that appeals to you. There is a thread on here as well.

You are right that I am a TH user a pretty passionate one to.

 

Mike

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I think its a great rod.  I have the 8/9.  The best line setup for me is a 500 gr Skagit head with 80 gr rio mow tips. Running line varies from Varivas mono to heavier stuff if the wind is really bad. This rod has a huge practical grain window.  I'm probably going to buy the 9/10 as well.  A lot of people on this board will criticize this rod but I don't think any of the most vocal critics have actually fished with it.  The fact that they are virtually impossible to find used tells you a lot.



 



Call Andrew Moy at Tightlines in NJ.  He sells everything.  Tell him what you want to accomplish and see what he recommends. 


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I'm looking at a Beulah Surf Rod for long rodding from the surf along the East Coast? Anyone had any experience with these? 

 

Not Beulah but a lot of others.

 

Tell me what your setup is (ie. length , weight and line types)

 

Minimum 12'. Weight catagories are almost pointless with TH rods - unless you had a particular TH rod that you wanted to either up-power or down-power. Blanks that I build on (CTS) are best for what you want are #10 - #12. You want to be able to handle at least a 600 gr line.

 

and why I should get one for myself?

 

Casting with these rods are almost effortless and you can get better distance with less effort. And they are fun.

 

 

Main things for me is I want something that will handle the wind up to 10 -12 knots,

 

Not a problem at all.

 

and want make me feel like I been waving a rebar stake all day.

 

Not a problem with the proper blank.

 

Also would like to be able to make 90-100  ft casts on flat days from the grit?

 

Also not a problem with the right blank.

 

I'm all ears try to be succinct in your responses. I

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Roger, I fish pretty much the same setup. My primary surf rod(I have 6 two handers) is a 12'9 8wt which I use a short skagit head and add a t-whatever tip. The key for me is that the head must be short. Around 20'. The normal size heads that are 25-28' just do not work. Right now my max cast is 160' with this setup. Now I also throw the airflo beach too but it can't even come close to the distance I get with the short skagit.

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The rod your looking to buy is good quality for the money. I would recommend a shooting head setup which will be easier for a beginner. 



Rule of thumb is that the head is approx. 3x the lenght of the rod. The proper grain weight for the rod weight is usually specified by the rod maker.



On an 8/9 weight I would suggest a RIO AFS Outbound 8/9 38' @ 520 to 550 Gram rating. I own 8  2HD Outfits but you get what you pay for.



Make sure the reel you mount on it will balance the rod well. My favorite is a custom made T&T 9wt 13' Spey with a AFS 550 gram shooting head



125'-150' every cast (no effort). If you buy the best you can afford you'll spend less money over time. Good luck!!! 


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Just remember that the grain rating if given by the rod maker on a Spey rod relates to Spey casting techniques. If you wish to Over Head Cast you need to ratchet back on the line weight a fair bit. For example a 700 grain rod is probably going to work best at around 450 grains +- with an Over Head Cast . Rio have very good guidence written by Simon Gawesworth on TH rods and the various lines. Its a good place to start if you are wondering what weight line to put onto your TH rod for OH casting.

 

 

The Hammer, a 9wt Spey Line with a short head is approx 600 grains which is fine for Scandi and Spey for a rod rated 8/9, but too heavy for Over Head casting.

 

We need Guys like you who can cast these wonderful distances to come to the TH day in June on the Cape. Are you able to make it? We plan two fishing sessiones after a bit of a get together. You only need a few more posts 15 in total and you can send PM's to sign up if you fancy it, should be fun.

 

 

Mike

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Mike,



 



I know you mean well but some of your statements simply aren't correct.  Your statement that a 700 gr rod needs a 450 gr line for overhead isn't 100% accurate.  Nick Curcione helped TFO with their Pandion rods.  The13' 2" 8 wt rod has a gr window of 500-650.  Nick is quoted (on Dan Blanton's site as well as ********) That he using lines that total 740 gr (600 Skagit head + 140 gr tip) on this rod for OH casting.



 



I think you are right about longer rods + heavier lines=equal greater distance in heavy winds.



 



I also tend to think that Nick Curcione knows what he's doing.


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Roger,

 

I tend to think I also know what I am doing. I have spent an aweful long time in the surf with TH rods and used that experience to develop my own range of Surf specific TH OH casting Fly Rods aided and abetted as you well know by Herb. Thats why my rods are not 11 feet long and not called Swich. Why they are very fast, powerful, and have progressive flex characteristics and not regressive butts, and feature longer lower handles and foregrips, and will perform Out Front and not one of them will Spey cast for Toffy. It did not happen overnight and on the way I had to throw away a few ugly frogs and it cost me hard cash not some one elses..

I may not be 100% accurate with my 450 grains to a spey rated rod of 700g but the principle cannot be argued against . Its a fact.

Roger I don't have to quote Guy A or Guy B because I have actually been there and done it. I am not being distrespectable to Nick Curcione who I know to be on good authority a very fine Fisherman when I say this. I am certainly not 100% right on everything to do with TH. I am still on the journey but I can claim to have pushed the envelope with help when it comes to TH surf Fly Rod design and in doing so I have laid myself on the line. I have nowhere to hide. I have also pushed the envelope in terms of how agressively the TH can be fished. I see little evidence of anyone else doing this. I guess this naturally means I am going to have views that are seriously at varience with most other TH users in the surf.

 

If his rod is rated correctly at 650grains Spey rating then by using a 650 grain line cast OH he is overloading it. By putting on 740 he is very much overloading it. If you are not casting into a strong head wind you can do that sort of thing. I was overloading a rod last year could not understand it as the grains I was casting should have been fine. But rod still let me cast a country mile with a cross wind. Totally overloaded with a head or tail wind. Only when I took this rod to a pool with a selection of lines did I find out the reason why, it was over rated by at least 2 lines. It was supposed to be a 10wt spey but turned out to be a 7/8 at best. No way could it cast a 550 line with any authority at all. Check out what a Spey short head 8wt line should weigh on Rio's site. I can tell you that a 9wt Spey line in a short head is 600Grains. It is generally excepted that you can't sensibly cast OH the same grain weight as you would when spey casting. If Nick is really crunching out high speed OH cast with 740 grains on a rod rated for an 8wt line then the rod has to be incorrectly rated.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

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Roger,

 

Can you please explain why I am wrong? The rating on a Spey rod is for spey casting not OH which places more loading on a rod. A rod may have a specified grain window of between x to y but unless a maker specifically states otherwise it is understood that this grain window applies to spey casting techniques. If a given rod is sold as OH design then it should cast to the line wt placed onto the blank when OH cast.

The vast majority of TH rods out there in the field are Spey so it is important that owners of such rods realise that they just can't expect to cast the same line weights OH. Sure you can flop a line out that is totally overloading a rod but you will not cast it. If you will not except this then read what Simon Gawesworth has to say on Spey rods on Rio's web site and take a look at his line drawing. Better still take a Spey rod not a Beach TH surf fly rod and you cast it OH with the same line recommended by the maker OH. All should then become clear to you.

The newer Guys many of whome have Spey rods not Beach Rods who now wish to try them in the surf need to know this if they are not going to be very dissapointed with the outcome of their efforts.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

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