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Female Combat Troops? - Page 4

post #46 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMunn View Post

I agree with what you're saying here. It's a little difficult for me, as I have combat experience and never served with females. I'm a skeptical about it, but not flat out opposed. I have a very hard time overcoming how I was raised, that women are to be protected. If that makes me a chauvenist, so be it. I have the utmost respect for women, but I think it's a sad day when we send them into combat. It's a new world, but for me, not really a better one.

30 years ago, I'd have been on the "No effin' way" bandagon, but times change, the military has changed, the equipment has changed and I've changed. I think the military is the right authority to make this call. It's their ass on the line and I think they should have the last word on how to best keep their asses in one piece while they're on the line. If this is because of pressure from Obama, then it's wrong. If it's just something the military thinks would be overall good for morale and maybe to get the most talented people in the right positions regardless of their gender, then I see no reason why we shouldn't support it.
post #47 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMunn View Post

I have a very hard time overcoming how I was raised, that women are to be protected. If that makes me a chauvenist, so be it. I have the utmost respect for women, but I think it's a sad day when we send them into combat. It's a new world, but for me, not really a better one.

thems just good ol fashion values right there, nothing wrong with that. but ya cant protect those those who choose to fight. are our troop numbers so depleted that we're resorting to this? or is this really just a progressive sort of idea.
post #48 of 93
They are Excellent M.P.'s though.

I would not mind being restrained by one or better 2 of them .....when I misbehave
post #49 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Williams View Post

If it's just something the military thinks would be overall good for morale and maybe to get the most talented people in the right positions regardless of their gender, then I see no reason why we shouldn't support it.
If I could hear just one combat commander say this, I might not be so reluctant to fall in line with it. All I've seen are women and politicians talk about how good it will be.
post #50 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMunn View Post

If I could hear just one combat commander say this, I might not be so reluctant to fall in line with it. All I've seen are women and politicians talk about how good it will be.

That's the thing..... we haven't heard the Military's side of the story yet. And even then, it would be hard to say for sure if the official military version wasn't handed to them under orders. It's just too early to get a feel for why this is happening or whether it's a good or bad decision.
post #51 of 93
I heard that a general is questioning Panetta's authority to decide that females may serve in combat.

The general is of the opinion that only Congress has the constitutional authority to make this decision.

Something like this.
post #52 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Williams View Post

I know they're not combat arms. The change in the rules, if I read them correctly, now permits women to serve in combat UNITS. This does not necessarily mean that the women serving in those combat units will have a combat arms MOS. There may be some 11B but I think the main impact of this change will be in support personnel in combat units. Just an assumption, but I think it's a reasonable assumption.


Yep and before it was "don't ask don't tell." You of anyone should get the meaning of the word "Progressive."
post #53 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMunn View Post

If I could hear just one combat commander say this, I might not be so reluctant to fall in line with it. All I've seen are women and politicians talk about how good it will be.

Mike,

From the people who brought us "Ft. Hood." They bend to PC and power just line anyone else.
post #54 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight771 View Post

Yep and before it was "don't ask don't tell." You of anyone should get the meaning of the word "Progressive."

I do. If this is "progressive" then I would be against it. IF it's "adaptive", then I'm for it. And to me, the difference between the two is whether the military actually thinks this is a good idea or whether this was something foisted on them by the Obama administration.
post #55 of 93

I've been producing some training videos for the gals:

post #56 of 93

Army

ABERDEEN PROVING GROUND, Md. (Jan. 6, 2009) -- Second Lt. Sophie Hilaire does not particularly fit the general image of an Explosive Ordnance Disposal Warrior.

Weighing a mere 120 pounds, one wonders how she could possibly be strong enough to function in an 85-pound bomb suit, handling the physical and mental demands of defusing improvised explosive devices.

But Hilaire is strong enough to run a marathon in full battle armor, and in fact, she holds a world record for it.

 

Air Force

"The (United States Air Force) EOD program is a very strong specialty, and the perspective and diversity our female Airmen bring with them has been vital to our success," said Chief Master Sgt. Robert Hodges, the EOD career field manager. "These warriors are standing side-by-side with their male counterparts, engaged in life-threatening missions, saving lives every day."

The Air Force has lost 12 EOD technicians to the war on terrorism. One of them one was Senior Airman Elizabeth Lonki, a 23-year-old EOD technician from New Castle, Del., assigned to the 775th Civil Engineer Squadron at Hill Air Force Base, Utah. She was killed Jan. 7, 2007, when a vehicle-borne improvised explosive device detonated while she and her team were performing duties in the Baghdad area.

A far cry from "sugar and spice and everything nice", there are 55 female EOD technicians in the Air Force out of a total of 970. Three who serve here with the explosive ordnance disposal unit at the 88th Air Base Wing at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. One is currently deployed to Kandahar, Afghanistan.

 

Navy

 

In the midst of the debate about whether women can be on the front lines in war, Nichole Kelly Robinette has been in front of the front lines.

As a Navy explosive ordnance disposal technician, the St. Paul native just returned from a deployment in northern Afghanistan, where her unit was responsible for detonating over 30,000 pounds of explosives. Those who know the St. Paul Central High School graduate give much of the credit to her Minnesota roots for developing the demeanor and tenacity required to be a member of the elite unit.

 

Marine

From 2005

“SSgt Timberly L. Willoughby of Gresham, Ore., is one of four female EOD technicians, MOS 2336, in the Marine Corps. SSgt Willoughby returned recently from Al Taqaddum, Iraq, where she experienced firsthand the threat of IEDs.”

post #57 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnewBee View Post

Army
ABERDEEN PROVING GROUND, Md. (Jan. 6, 2009) -- Second Lt. Sophie Hilaire does not particularly fit the general image of an Explosive Ordnance Disposal Warrior.


Weighing a mere 120 pounds, one wonders how she could possibly be strong enough to function in an 85-pound bomb suit, handling the physical and mental demands of defusing improvised explosive devices.


But Hilaire is strong enough to run a marathon in full battle armor, and in fact, she holds a world record for it.


Air Force
"The (United States Air Force) EOD program is a very strong specialty, and the perspective and diversity our female Airmen bring with them has been vital to our success," said Chief Master Sgt. Robert Hodges, the EOD career field manager. "These warriors are standing side-by-side with their male counterparts, engaged in life-threatening missions, saving lives every day."

The Air Force has lost 12 EOD technicians to the war on terrorism. One of them one was Senior Airman Elizabeth Lonki, a 23-year-old EOD technician from New Castle, Del., assigned to the 775th Civil Engineer Squadron at Hill Air Force Base, Utah. She was killed Jan. 7, 2007, when a vehicle-borne improvised explosive device detonated while she and her team were performing duties in the Baghdad area.


A far cry from "sugar and spice and everything nice", there are 55 female EOD technicians in the Air Force out of a total of 970. Three who serve here with the explosive ordnance disposal unit at the 88th Air Base Wing at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. One is currently deployed to Kandahar, Afghanistan.


Navy

In the midst of the debate about whether women can be on the front lines in war, Nichole Kelly Robinette has been in front of the front lines Not sure i understand how they came to this conclusion, but good job none the less.
As a Navy explosive ordnance disposal technician, the St. Paul native just returned from a deployment in northern Afghanistan, where her unit was responsible for detonating over 30,000 pounds of explosives. Those who know the St. Paul Central High School graduate give much of the credit to her Minnesota roots for developing the demeanor and tenacity required to be a member of the elite unit.

Marine
From 2005
“SSgt Timberly L. Willoughby of Gresham, Ore., is one of four female EOD technicians, MOS 2336, in the Marine Corps. SSgt Willoughby returned recently from Al Taqaddum, Iraq, where she experienced firsthand the threat of IEDs.”
EOD is extremely dangerous, and these woman should be comended for what they do. It's still not infantry, armor or artillery. Those have a different skill set. We can specualte on whether these woman could do the job, and this type of thing lends credibility to thier case, but not proof.
post #58 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMunn View Post


EOD is extremely dangerous, and these woman should be comended for what they do. It's still not infantry, armor or artillery. Those have a different skill set. We can specualte on whether these woman could do the job, and this type of thing lends credibility to thier case, but not proof.

Speaking for Navy only: They Parachute, Deep Sea Dive, Shoot all manner of weapons, go through the exact same training, dismounted patrols, and put on the same bomb Suit for the lonely unaccompanied long walk in combat.

post #59 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnewBee View Post

Speaking for Navy only: They Parachute, Deep Sea Dive, Shoot all manner of weapons, go through the exact same training, dismounted patrols, and put on the same bomb Suit for the lonely unaccompanied long walk in combat.

Yes but you are avoiding the point. You can suit up and jump from a plane, civilains do it all the time, same with diving and shooting. We are talking brute strength here, KnewBee. Were you in the combat arms?
post #60 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdmso View Post

1st Lt. Laura M. Walker, 24, IED attack on Humvee, Aug. 18, 2005.
Sgt. Wakkuna A. Jackson, 21, IED attack on convoy vehicle, Aug. 19, 2006.
Reserve Sgt. 1st Class Merideth L. Howard, 52, suicide car bomb attack on Humvee, Sept. 8, 2006.

Sgt. Simone Robinson, 21, IED attack in Kabul on Feb. 28, single mother of two year-old daughter, Mar. 1, 2009.
Navy Lt. Florence B. Choe, 35, killed by iAfghan soldier while running at Camp Shaheen, Mazar-e-Sharif, 3 year-old daughter, March 27, 2009.
Air Force Lt. Roslyn L. Schulte, 25, IED hit on vehicle near Kabul, May 20, 2009.
Air Force Senior Airman Ashton L.M. Goodman, 21, IED hit on vehicle near Bagram AFB, May 26, 2009.

Sgt. Eduviges G. Wolf, 24, RPG attack on vehicle, wife and mother of two girls, ages 3 and 1, October 22, 2009.
Pfc. Barbara Vieyra, 22, IED, RPG attack near Kunar province, Mother of a little girl, Evelyn, Sept. 18, 2010.
Pfc. Jaysine P.S. Petree, 19, IED attack on vehicle traveling between Ghanzi and Bagram Airfield, Sept. 24, 2010.


Sgt. Zainah C. Creamer, 28, IED attack on unit, Jan. 12, 2011.
Pfc. Renee Sinkler, 23, RPG attack while in turret of MRAP vehicle in convoy, Jan. 19, 2011.
Sgt. Linda L. Pierre, 28, Suicide bomb attack by Afghan soldier near FOB Gamberi, April 16, 2011.
Staff Sgt. Cynthia R. Taylor, 39, Suicide bomb attack near FOB Gamberi, April 16, 2011.
Master Sgt. Tara R. Brown, 33, Attack by Afghan pilot under training at Kabul Airport, April 27, 2011.
Spec. Devin Snyder, 20, IED on road, June 4, 2011.
1st Lt. Ashley White, 24, IED attack on assault force with which she was assigned as part of a cultural support team, Oct. 22, 2011.
PFC Sarina Butcher, 19, IED attack in Paktia Province, Nov. 1, 2011.

Spec. Erica Alecksen, 21, IED attack on vehicle, eastern Afghanistan, July 8, 2012.
Spec. Krystal M. Fitts, 26, indirect fire while serving on a Female Engagement Team, July 17, 2012.

CWO Thalia Ramirez, helicopter crash in Logar province, Sept. 5, 2012.
Sgt. Donna Johnson, suicide bomber attack, Oct. 1, 2012.

Spc. Brittany B. Gordon, 24, attack by suicide bomber in Zabul province, Oct. 13, 2012.

These are just from Afghanistan all KIA while conducting combat operations in Non Infantry Jobs MP's civil affairs Transportation Pilots crew chiefs Who cares what Job they choose as long as they Make the choice on their own
with out influence.. from others

Ok have no problem with the demand to be treated equal. BUT. If we are talking equality than there is no " choice of their own ". If the military needs bodies than everyone gets throwen into the meat grider. That also means if there is need for a draft, next time around women as well as men are subject to call up. It's time for girls when they hit 18 to sign up for their draft cards. EQUALITY MEANS EQUALITY.
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