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Rio Outbound vs. Outbound Short

post #1 of 54
Thread Starter 
Just got my first 9wt saltwater fly rod, a Loomis Crosscurrent GLX.

A while back Nick Curcione recommended that I use Outbound Short.

What's the difference in casting performance and distance between the 30' and 37' head lines?

Also, difference between Freshwater and Saltwater Cold versions (believe it or not, the Rio Tech Support guy said they were the same lines- I suspect (a) he's new on the job, or (b) smoking something then blowing smoke).

I'll be casting around SF (ocean and delta) for stripers and anything else that might take the fly. Perhaps next year I'll try redfish/bonefish/tarpon in more southerly waters.

Also thinking of overlining with a 10wt. Thoughts?
post #2 of 54
I used to fish that rod a lot when I was Loomis pro staff.. SF Bay temps tend to range from mid 40's to low 70's if memory serves. A lot of this decision will depend on your casting ability and casting style. Most people that buy a rod like that are pretty efficient casters and normally have a pretty aggresive casting style (Strong hauls on both sides). I never overlined that rod personally but I fit that description I just gave. I always prefered the Airflow Cold Saltwater Striper Lines for intermediate, Wulff SWT for floating, and SA Custom tip express or Streamer express for full sink. I always get lashed for this but I never liked the Rio lines personally and especially don't like the short head lines from them or any other maker. The shorter head will have an edge on throwing very large surface flies but for me thats about it. Longer smoother casts with a more traditional WF line which is what most experienced casters like. I would go to Leland fly shop and see if you could try a few lines.
post #3 of 54
I have not compared OB and OBS but I think I would cast at least 10 ft longer with OB. Again because OB and OBS heads are about 1,5 line weights overweight they go about 10ft longer than "properly" weighted lines.
post #4 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanFranFlyFish View Post

Also thinking of overlining with a 10wt. Thoughts?

It really depends on the rod and your casting style.

I just got a Rio Outbound 9 floater this spring. It's the longer head one. Absolutely love it. I have not tried the shorter head, so I don't have a comparison point.

I use the line on two rods: an Abrames Salmo Sax #3 (the rod designation, not the weight -- the rod is designed for a wide range of grain weights) and a TFO TiCr 5 weight. The line mates perfectly with both rods for how I like to cast and fish. If you can, it would be great to try some different grain weights on your rod before you buy. When you find the right combination, you'll know it.

Upline or downline at your discretion. The stripers certainly won't care. :-)

Steve Culton
post #5 of 54
Whatever you do, don't overline with an Outbound Short. I use the alleged 6wt on my 8wt rod. Rio gives the head weights on their website, and I've always been mystified by the mismatch with industry standards.

Steve
post #6 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanFranFlyFish View Post

Just got my first 9wt saltwater fly rod, a Loomis Crosscurrent GLX.

I think you made a great choice! Until the NRX appeared the CC GLX with the Tropical OBS WF-10F was the best permit setup for me. I also own both versions of the OB, but for me and my casting style I much prefer the shorter head OBS. But that's me and as you can judge from earlier responders, one size does not fit all. The only way for you to judge what will work best for you is to demo as many lines as you can until you find it and answer as well the question of overlining. SA lines tend to match the AFTMA standard and SA is up front when their lines are intentionally 1/2 to 3/4 overweighted. Rio lines are generally 1 to 2 sizes overweight and you really need a grain weight scale to know what's what.

As for bones/reds and small tarpon, IMO your new GLX CC 9 WT is too big a gun, but if it's your only gun then go for it. But the same rod (or the NRX) in 8 WT with a Rio Redfish WF-9F is a really great match for inshore flats.

Lastly, the Rio cold water and tropical OBs used to have different cores, but it would not surprise me they are now the same. Rio seems to be heading more and more into cross marketing the same line with two different names; for example, the new Bonefish Shooter is identical to the old Redfish, the new 2013 Redfish is identical to the Tarpon taper, and the new Tarpon Short is identical to the Tropical OB. But even if true, I don't see that an issue. I own both types and have fished both in warm and cold environments and can't really say there's significant casting difference. Good luck with your search.
post #7 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Schullery View Post

Whatever you do, don't overline with an Outbound Short. I use the alleged 6wt on my 8wt rod. Rio gives the head weights on their website, and I've always been mystified by the mismatch with industry standards.
Steve

With respect, that just means your rod matches well with an 8 WT line. There are some 8 WT rods that match very well with a 9 WT OBS.
post #8 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Schullery View Post

Whatever you do, don't overline with an Outbound Short. I use the alleged 6wt on my 8wt rod. Rio gives the head weights on their website, and I've always been mystified by the mismatch with industry standards.
Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by sightfisher View Post

With respect, that just means your rod matches well with an 8 WT line. There are some 8 WT rods that match very well with a 9 WT OBS.

I guess I wasn't clear: I would expect that my 8wt rod to match with an 8wt line, and I don't doubt that there are some very stiff 9wt rods out there. What puzzles me is that the 30' head of a nominal 6wt OBS weighs 235 grains, which is within the AFTMA specs for an 9wt line, 240 +/- 10.

Steve
post #9 of 54
Personally I do not like the OBS line one jot. Short heads are for me specialized lines for casting wind resistant big flies over relatively short distances. My Sage 9wt just got very overloaded with an OBS 9wt which is by normal AFTM stds an 11 wt line. I think two lines up is a nonsense. Rio in their blurb on the line box I think are making too big an assumption that all modern rods cast well with a line that is two above the rods rating. It is at best misleading in my opinion.

Ok the 37.5 foot OB line I do like a lot and I fish them at least one line down. For example for my 10wt rod I will buy a 9wt OB or even an 8wt OB. I have a bad feeling that RIo have now stopped making the std OB line as sales of the OBS have made that possible. I think the OBS is a cop out line and could well be popular for the wrong reasons for many Guys.

Mike
post #10 of 54
Thread Starter 
Difference between Freshwater and Saltwater-Cold

I just got a confirming email from Rio:

"No difference whatsoever. Same product, they are simply cross marketed in terms of the packaging. We found that “freshwater” Outbound sold very well amongst the California Delta Striped Bass fisherman, for instance but the Striper guys on the East Coast weren’t using it much, even though the line is perfect for that East Coast application. Guys just didn’t associate that freshwater line with being used for that East Coast, saltwater, striped bass application…..until we changed the packaging. Now those East Coast striper guys are loving it. Anyway, there you have it."

Who'da thunk!
post #11 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Oliver View Post

Personally I do not like the OBS line one jot. Short heads are for me specialized lines for casting wind resistant big flies over relatively short distances. My Sage 9wt just got very overloaded with an OBS 9wt which is by normal AFTM stds an 11 wt line. I think two lines up is a nonsense. Rio in their blurb on the line box I think are making too big an assumption that all modern rods cast well with a line that is two above the rods rating. It is at best misleading in my opinion.
Ok the 37.5 foot OB line I do like a lot and I fish them at least one line down. For example for my 10wt rod I will buy a 9wt OB or even an 8wt OB. I have a bad feeling that RIo have now stopped making the std OB line as sales of the OBS have made that possible. I think the OBS is a cop out line and could well be popular for the wrong reasons for many Guys.
Mike

With respect Mike, but your post is nonsensical. First, you rant your Sage 9WT (xi3??) is overloaded by a 9WT OBS, hence you condemn the OBS to specialized use. All that says to me is your rod is not a 11WT rod but might be really happy with 7 or 8WT OBS, similar to your really liking the OB on the same rod when over lined by one wt. or just evenly lined. The OB head is 7.5 feet longer than the 30 foot OBS head but line weight for line weight has the same head grain weight, so I believe you would change your characterization of the OBS on your rod if you give it the same under-lined chance you afforded the OB. I know I much prefer the OBS for fast cast sight fishing on the flats, especially for longer shots in the 70-80 foot range.

Again with respect Mike, you have lots of experience with the long rod, but your comments make me ask: are you trying to cast a short head shooting line like the OBS with any of the running line beyond the rod tip? That is a formula for disappointment.
post #12 of 54

The OBS and OB are both integrated shooting head systems,NOT traditional flylines w/ long bellys and rear tapers.You cannot cast it like a traditional line cuz it aint that! If you understand the mechanics of and are good at casting a shooting head an OB or OBS could work for you.If you have little or no experience w/ shooting heads or have mostly cast traditional flylines you could join the league of those frustrated by the OB and OBS.Do you typically aerialize 40-50' of line before shooting? Go w/ another brand such as foulhook suggests.If you try to put 40+' of OB or OBS out  before shooting the cast will collapse.

I like them both and have no prob emptying the reel w/ them,although I prefer the OBS generally speaking,rollcast pickup,back cast and shoot the line.The thing about the OB I do like better is it gives me 120' to cast instead of 100 w/ the OBS.

In no way do I feel these are specialized or purpose specific lines as seems to be often suggested.I fish them for everything except trout w/ dries.An 8wt  floater will knock out a 6",4/0 popper like nobodys business!

post #13 of 54
As for me, all I use is OBS lines. I like their ability to flick a quick cast out to 80 feet without false casting.
post #14 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Schullery View Post

I guess I wasn't clear: I would expect that my 8wt rod to match with an 8wt line, and I don't doubt that there are some very stiff 9wt rods out there. What puzzles me is that the 30' head of a nominal 6wt OBS weighs 235 grains, which is within the AFTMA specs for an 9wt line, 240 +/- 10.
Steve

Steve, you're to be disappointed to expect rod makers are any more committed to the AFTMA standard than the line makers. Rio makes no claim to alignment with AFTMA. SA does make that claim but notes their lines that are over line the standard, like the FW Grand (+1/2 line wt. over weight). But Rio openly publishes the grain weights of the heads of their lines, and I wish rod makers would be equally transparent and rate their rods by grain weight requirements. In the current state of the fly fishing tackle industry, you are better off IMO dialing in the head weight needs of a given rod than to blindly assume the 8WT rod of maker X will match up with the 8WT line of maker Y. Unfortunately, like it or not, that's where the gear industry puts us fisherman.
post #15 of 54
i am a big fan of RIO OBs mainly shorts. But i also have to adjust lines to individual rods --or adjust the lines to my casting likes. I like the 11wt tropical OBS on my 11wt ONE and the 9 Tropical OBS on my 10 ONE.

I am pretty sure the freshwater and coldwater OBs are the same lines. We received out Fall shipment from Rio and i called Simon as our cold water OBs were in freshwater boxes.
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