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Increasing awareness on what is really going on... - Page 7

post #91 of 126
3/3/12 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Purser View Post

This is called "Gentrification" and NOAA has nothing to do with that. It's partially the result of the increasing wealth gap in America and partially just how capitalism works.

I would also make a guess that Noaa has nothing to do with no-fish zones,catch shares that will drive every small guy out of business,caping off major species like seabass and snappers without TRUE science or EXTEMELY OUTDATED science to back them up correct?? I just know this.. Noaa is in command of all tidal waters here on NPS land.. After looking at what other government agencies have done here,I have very little trust in them.. They are looking to close many wrecks off NC's coast,close off fisheries in the Western Pamlico Sound that have been there for over a century,make some areas in the sound habitat areas where no one can fish,cutting off huge areas to offshore fisheries that are the mainstay for charter fleets here.. That is naming what I can think of right off the top,and my memory ain't what it used to be... One thing I do know,the excellerated rate at which this is going recently is pretty scary in a country that is suppose to be free....

To make the post you have made,personally,I can not see you as a fisherman... If you can't see the damage that has been done to BOTH the recreational fisherman as far as access,and the com for what will happen if catch shares come into play,you are blind or just don't give a ****... jmho from what I have seen...

Back to your comment about Noaa policing itself, you think this is the only time something like this has happened,really??????
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post #92 of 126
3/3/12 at 6:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumdum View Post

I would also make a guess that Noaa has nothing to do with no-fish zones,catch shares that will drive every small guy out of business,caping off major species like seabass and snappers without TRUE science or EXTEMELY OUTDATED science to back them up correct?? I just know this.. Noaa is in command of all tidal waters here on NPS land.. After looking at what other government agencies have done here,I have very little trust in them.. They are looking to close many wrecks off NC's coast,close off fisheries in the Western Pamlico Sound that have been there for over a century,make some areas in the sound habitat areas where no one can fish,cutting off huge areas to offshore fisheries that are the mainstay for charter fleets here.. That is naming what I can think of right off the top,and my memory ain't what it used to be... One thing I do know,the excellerated rate at which this is going recently is pretty scary in a country that is suppose to be free....
To make the post you have made,personally,I can not see you as a fisherman... If you can't see the damage that has been done to BOTH the recreational fisherman as far as access,and the com for what will happen if catch shares come into play,you are blind or just don't give a ****... jmho from what I have seen...
Back to your comment about Noaa policing itself, you think this is the only time something like this has happened,really??????

Aaaaannnnndddd we're back to facing the fact that this episode over here on the Puget was in fact nothing to get anyone upset about but one Senator is grandstanding it in an election year where he faces a real challenge. So well done NOAA and thank you for not letting politics get in the way of doing the job we need you to do!

Yes, it's called gentrification. I saw it when the countryside around Durham went from farm country to suburbs. Happened in San Francisco when the tech boom landed. Happened in LA when "The Canyon" went from rural to Hollywood getaway. Interesting fact about all those: They had nothing to do with NOAA. It's money. It's capitalism.

Too bad no one started a thread to talk about what you're REALLY upset at NOAA about. That might have been informative.
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post #93 of 126
3/3/12 at 10:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Purser View Post

Aaaaannnnndddd we're back to facing the fact that this episode over here on the Puget was in fact nothing to get anyone upset about but one Senator is grandstanding it in an election year where he faces a real challenge. So well done NOAA and thank you for not letting politics get in the way of doing the job we need you to do!
Yes, it's called gentrification. I saw it when the countryside around Durham went from farm country to suburbs. Happened in San Francisco when the tech boom landed. Happened in LA when "The Canyon" went from rural to Hollywood getaway. Interesting fact about all those: They had nothing to do with NOAA. It's money. It's capitalism.
Too bad no one started a thread to talk about what you're REALLY upset at NOAA about. That might have been informative.

Really?? you think one time and done??? You think noaa,as well as others in the same puddle of mud and influenced as well as infiltrated by enviros and folks that want to take your fishing rod away (oh I forgot,you really aren't a fisherman,you are one of the "infiltrated") are going to police themselves?? Interesting......

The "One Senator grandstanding" is just portraying what is to come from a government group that has political ties with enviros and can eventually tear down what we do on this board,out of boats,in the surf,and off piers and jetties: FISH!!!
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post #94 of 126
3/3/12 at 10:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumdum View Post

Really?? you think one time and done??? You think noaa,as well as others in the same puddle of mud and influenced as well as infiltrated by enviros and folks that want to take your fishing rod away (oh I forgot,you really aren't a fisherman,you are one of the "infiltrated") are going to police themselves?? Interesting......
The "One Senator grandstanding" is just portraying what is to come from a government group that has political ties with enviros and can eventually tear down what we do on this board,out of boats,in the surf,and off piers and jetties: FISH!!!

You do realized that they DID police themselves quite adequately and did it long before Senator Brown needed a campaign stunt right?
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post #95 of 126
3/3/12 at 11:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Purser View Post

You do realized that they DID police themselves quite adequately and did it long before Senator Brown needed a campaign stunt right?

Personally,I DO NOT CARE about the "campain stunt".... He drew attention to a group of "actavist" that need attention drawn to them....


http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/03/its-an-obama-world-fishermen-given-500-taxpayer-funded-bribes-not-to-fish/
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post #96 of 126
3/3/12 at 11:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumdum View Post

Personally,I DO NOT CARE about the "campain stunt".... He drew attention to a group of "actavist" that need attention drawn to them....
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/03/its-an-obama-world-fishermen-given-500-taxpayer-funded-bribes-not-to-fish/

He "drew attention to" people doing their job well and said they were the problem.
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post #97 of 126
3/3/12 at 11:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Purser View Post

...
Too bad no one started a thread to talk about what you're REALLY upset at NOAA about. That might have been informative.

This thread never left the original topic. But, if denying that is your thing, well, like the saying goes, lead a horse to water, ...
Info in the video pertained to NOAA actions going back years here in MA. Here, it was big enough for both Sen. Kennedy & Kerry held hearings in Gloucester.
These were covered by local papers (Boston Globe, Boston Herald, Essex County News) and Boston tv news.
Just keep denying these happened, so the latest NOAA incident doesn't show a pattern within an agency which has been given greatly increasing responsibilities. It's the recipe for corruption.
Hopefully, the increased awareness can limit this in the future. NOAA has a big part in the future of fisheries management. We need NOAA to be better than this.
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post #98 of 126
3/4/12 at 12:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubbereel View Post


Hopefully, the increased awareness can limit this in the future. NOAA has a big part in the future of fisheries management. We need NOAA to be better than this.

See, that's my point: They WERE "better than this". They were all over it and well before it became a phony made up politically driven scandal. Further more they cracked down on it across two administrations pointing out that they AREN'T some hotbed for corruption or any of the other wild charges made in this thread.
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post #99 of 126
3/4/12 at 12:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumdum View Post

Personally,I DO NOT CARE about the "campain stunt".... He drew attention to a group of "actavist" that need attention drawn to them....
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/03/its-an-obama-world-fishermen-given-500-taxpayer-funded-bribes-not-to-fish/

Next thing you know that crazy Sen. Brown or some other grandstander will accuse Obama of being responsible for high fuel prices. Where do they come up with this stuff? Really, I don't think any rational mind can view NOAA as anything but a bloated , inefficient, and dare we say CORRUPT agency. There have been very few success stories in the history of NMFS and most of those were accidental. Bad management by bad managers = Politics. When their policies don't work , govt. managers( and elected officials) ask for "more time" to make them work; Private managers get fired. Keep supporting bad policies Comrade, all will be well, they are only protecting us from ourselves.
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post #100 of 126
3/4/12 at 7:18am
Are you affiliated with NOAA in any way?
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post #101 of 126
3/4/12 at 7:38am
We are all affiliated with NOAA , their agency is bigger than most foreign governments and their policies are just as suspect. My closing statement was obviously sarcastic.
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post #102 of 126
3/4/12 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipwreck View Post

Are you affiliated with NOAA in any way?

Yes, I'm a citizen of the United States of America and as such I AM the government.
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post #103 of 126
3/4/12 at 8:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by drysuit2 View Post

I’m glad you bumped this again. It’s about more than just this one incident.
It’s about loss. How many times do we have to witness this before we do anything?
First the “tourists” come to visit the beautiful waterfront, “working class” communities.
They are all up and down the coast. They have modest property values, and everyone works around the water. Fishermen, Boat builders, Craftsmen. Mechanics, even unskilled labor… the economy is a direct result of the water.
Then “look honey let’s buy a place here, it’s so quant.”
Followed by the complaints. “no more boats on the front lawn”, “all those traps, and nets stink” “they need to clean that place up” They may think they are protecting their property values…but they are ruining the character of the communities.
This is followed by, “you can’t launch from there. That’s my private property” Soon to be a chorus of “those unsightly commercials are over fishing the sea”. “Let’s call the DEC, NPA, The State and NOOA.” “Let’s change the status of that fish to Gamefish.” But you’re not worried; the authorities are on your side. You alerted them to these “violations” in the first place.
Finally; we’ve destroyed a way of life that has existed here for 400 years. Just so you can have a pretty house in what used to be a commercial neighborhood. Just so you can go fishing, because you are a “Recreational Angler” But oops …It’s not just generations of families who can’t afford to live here any more. Neither can you!
Then you act surprised when the State and the Feds take away your right to fish. And the private home owner with the McMansion says “you can’t come here any more. This is my beach”
If I have to listen to one more knucklehead explain to me how we have retained this communities rich commercial fishing heritage from the front lawn of his million dollar Mc Mansion…

This is the crux of the gripe which was lost on many of us, me included, when the original post made it seem like the issue was a frivolous purchase of a 30' sport fish. Great for sensationalism, which Sen. Brown pounced on, but it blurred the real message.

Nils - you ought to post up links to the docs that you emailed me. There's plenty of smart folks on here that would embrace your cause if they knew the real issues. The boat thing doesn't surprise many of us - we all know that money leads to corruption, even within NOAA.
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post #104 of 126
3/4/12 at 9:30am
Wayne -

Glad to hear that. A couple more pieces I did on the enforcement mess are here and here.

John -

You're assessment that the system did work in the case of the Boston Whaler isn't quite accurate. It was a "whistle blower" who got the ball rolling initially, and whistle blowers are by definition from outside the system. If things had worked as they should, whoever it was would have never needed to "blow the whistle."

Though from that point on it did work out. But does the IG's office need to get involved in every such case of gross mismanagement?

I would argue that the BW incident wasn't the disease, it was one of many symptoms which were and I have no doubt still rampant in NOAA. The disease is the typical, ENGO anti-use, we've got to protect it all from everyone philosophy that has cost us all uncountable billions of dollars in the last two decades or so. It can't be blamed on the Obama Administration, though his people have raised it to unprecedented levels.
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post #105 of 126
3/4/12 at 9:42am
ps - Some of the referenced documents are no longer available at their original URLs. I'd rather not stick them on one of my websites - unless there's a lot of interest in them - so if you're interested in one or more, send me a PM and I'll either send them to you, or if there's enough interest, post 'em.
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