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$800 plus for a fly rod ??? - Page 2

post #16 of 102
See, I've never really had the money for the latest and greatest in anything I want. I've always had to go for "best bang for the buck." But, I've done very well living my life that way, and have no complaints. Sure, I'd rather have a Rolex than a Timex, but you'll have a hard time convincing me that the Rolex really keeps time any better. $800 rods are cool, but I get more of a kick out of throwing just as far with a rod I can walk away from at the end of the day without worrying if I washed it off and stored it properly.



Valentine
post #17 of 102
I recently read and enoyed some excellent articles on Singlebarbed written by kbarton10 dated May 19 and May 20(part II),2008 on fly gear economics and e bay role as well. Another thoughtfull discussion occurred on the Middcurrent site regarding the basis of retail pricing of fly gear. Both singlebarbed and midcurrent artlicles were followed by great feedback from readers. your should be able to find them on the google or some search engine.
post #18 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenie View Post
I recently read and enoyed some excellent articles on Singlebarbed written by kbarton10 dated May 19 and May 20(part II),2008 on fly gear economics and e bay role as well. Another thoughtfull discussion occurred on the Middcurrent site regarding the basis of retail pricing of fly gear. Both singlebarbed and midcurrent artlicles were followed by great feedback from readers. your should be able to find them on the google or some search engine.


LOL, can we get the bottom line version? You know like-

Bottom line this is why6 they rape you and are greedy people.
post #19 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy 40 View Post
People spend $500 on a reel, $5000 on a fishign vacation, $1500 on fuel for an offshore trip, heack even $200 on a bottle of wine - so why is an $800 rod out of line? There ARE people willing to spend that, just none of the people comlaining about it. People who have money like that, are really not woried abotu the economy, it's almost like they buy expensive stuff just to prove they have it like that.

One of the things I've noticed is that teh amount of low end product sales have picked up. The high end stuff, for the most part stayed the same. WHat suffered is the middle of the road gear, this market contains the majority of people who have suffered the most the past couple of years financially. Instead of buying something they WANT that migh tbe a little expensive, they buy what they NEED and spend a little less on the lower end items.

How can they compete with lower end items is very simple. THEy have an image of a high quality product marketted at peopel who do not accept having anythign but teh "best", or latest greatest. A guy who HAS $800 for a rod isn't going to consider getting a $400 rod, even if it was a better product - it wouldbe a bit of a hard sell to get him to step down.


You forgot the $30,000 people commonly spend on a boat. Who wants to have a wimpy rod after laying out dough for that kind of equipment? The $800+ fly rod that seems to be eternally sold out here out west is the 8 wt Sage TCX; casts much better than anything else in the wind out here in the Delta. And with all due respect, valentine and rusty, anything else does not cast as far, or with anywhere near the control. Go try it out - it is quite the rocket launcher. One of the shops around me had that ten-large Hardy titanium reel; when I asked to look at it - they had sold it.
post #20 of 102
When I started fly fishing I bought a 5/6 wt Cortland rod(80 bucks) and a 30 dollar scientific anglers reel. I then started to fish the salt and I bought a 600 dollar sage set up. Along the way I bought 3/4, 4, 5/6, 8, 9, and 10 wt rods. If I am going to fish for larger fresh water fish my go to rod is my cortland 5/6. I love that rod so much that I bought a spare that sits under the seat in my jeep just in case I see some water and get the itch. And as far as the salt goes I love my sage but I have an albright that cost 100 dollars and the rod is very nice. I received an orvis 4 wt rod as a gift(600 dollars) and it is my go to rod on small streams and rivers. But I must say I reciently picked up a 3/4 from Albright and it is a sweet little rod. Now my Orvis is equipped with a sage click 3 and it definitely looks much better than the Albright but it does the same job. Ok, I love that Orvis rod and it blows the Albright away but the point is that it is not necessary to spend a fortune on an out fit to have a great fly fishing experience. My Orvis 4 wt set up rod reel and line totals about 1000 dollars but I can fish my Albright set up (60 Dollars) and catch the same amount of fish. Sure the warranty makes it well worth it but other than that its like rustyjigz said its not all about the rod and reel but more about the anglers skill. I spend way more than I should but I don't think I will ever spend more than 4 or 500 on a rod. 800 is ridiculous. BUT if I had more money than I knew what to do with, what the hell why not !!!!!
post #21 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by snarlac View Post
You forgot the $30,000 people commonly spend on a boat. Who wants to have a wimpy rod after laying out dough for that kind of equipment? The $800+ fly rod that seems to be eternally sold out here out west is the 8 wt Sage TCX; casts much better than anything else in the wind out here in the Delta. And with all due respect, valentine and rusty, anything else does not cast as far, or with anywhere near the control. Go try it out - it is quite the rocket launcher. One of the shops around me had that ten-large Hardy titanium reel; when I asked to look at it - they had sold it.


If only you were in the PG. I would have had a ball with this.

I like Brian way too much! (Not in the Ghey way)
post #22 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwestexile View Post


The human factor in producing a good rod is still a big element of production and cost [please don't disillusion me by saying that fly rods are now machine-built too ].

To have that human assembler be a skilled rod-builder artisan using the same components for a "custom" rod would cost even more than "factory-built" rods. The custom-built rod can by taylored to your needs and tastes by someone who knows how to modify the formula in positive ways.


Us fly tyers should start a revolt for higher wages. Look how labor intensive the fly patterns have become. Keeping on the same level playing field as fly rods, our fly price point should start in the vicinity of $15.00 on up.

Now what would a polar bear streamer with jungle cock eyes cost?

Just an added thought:

When we go fly fishing we may have at least $1500.00 in our hands.
Some day some street wise uban gangs are going to realize the value of our product. Forget about knocking off the local doughnut shop for a few hundred bucks. When you start seeing street gangsters along the streams.... Beware!
post #23 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Castafly View Post
Us fly tyers should start a revolt for higher wages. Look how labor intensive the fly patterns have become. Keeping on the same level playing field as fly rods, our fly price point should start in the vicinity of $15.00 on up.

Now what would a polar bear streamer with jungle cock eyes cost?

Just an added thought:

When we go fly fishing we may have at least $1500.00 in our hands.
Some day some street wise uban gangs are going to realize the value of our product. Forget about knocking off the local doughnut shop for a few hundred bucks. When you start seeing street gangsters along the streams.... Beware!
no one is stopping you from charging more for your flies.
post #24 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by valentine View Post
I'd rather have a Rolex than a Timex, but you'll have a hard time convincing me that the Rolex really keeps time any better.


Those $800 rods are not marketted at you, they are marketted at people who own rolexes. So your opinion doesn't matter to those making AND SELLING these rods.

These companies are not raping anyone, they are extremely smart. THEy have a price point in which they know they will sell products - why should they charge any less if people are willing to pay more? They would be very stupid to do that - it's a fine line where tehy have to find the pricetag which will maximize their profits. Sure they will sell more at a lesser price, but make less.
post #25 of 102
I don't think for this discussion you can consider collector driven bamboo rod prices like the 5 figure example offered by Flytying guy 1. I know vitually nothing about fly rod making. However, bamboo rod tapers are often planed by hand and in some cases a planing machine produces the tapers. Many rodmakers explain that each rod requires at least 40 hrs of labor start to finish. I am not aware of any aspect of bamboo rod making that really lends itself to automated mass production. I am very interested in getting into bamboo, and the prices to do so are daunting. Yet, new bamboo rods by domestic craftsman can start around the 5-600 range and go up to a couple of thousand or more. On e bay and other places one can find post WWII era American factory bamboo rods, in fishable condition, for about TFO prices. (Granger, Wright and McGill, South Bend, Horrocks and Ibotson, to name a few). The same rods rebuilt or refinisned to accomodate modern lines can be found selling for 350-550 on the auction site. For exquisite handcrafted by a modern craftsman, ya need money bags...

One reason for high prices on modern top of the line graphite rods in fly shops are retail price agreements rod companies enforce on shops. Remember, the fly fisherman these days has a wide choice of good rods at much lower price points. Look through any large catalog- there are even mid range rods offered by high end makers in addition to imported, affordable rods of which TFO is only one maker.

finally, consider the mark ups on most fly shop tying inventory, flies, lines etc are not going to keep them in business long. Most shops I visit stock thee rod lines, usually Sage, Winston, TFO. Some high end/high margin merchandise like simms, patagonia etc. has to carry the shop...
post #26 of 102
Check out Tom Morgan's masterpieces and get in line.



mud
post #27 of 102
Classic bamboo Tonkin Cane Split Bamboo Rods can set you back $2000. Orvis,RL Winston, Leonard,Thomas&Thomas...etc bamboo demand a hefty price and that is not to speak of compared to the pre WW11 built by Charles Payne that fetch a hefty $20,000 or better. Look into one of Orvis catalogs at their split bamboo rods.
post #28 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by mud-channel View Post
Check out Tom Morgan's masterpieces and get in line.

mud

Tom made some fine rods but there were others but there were others IMO that were better. Pinky Gillum, Tom Maxwell. Dickerson,Payne,Leonard just to name a few.I also have a few of these fine rods but they are only for investment purposes. Heres a Sam Carlson that sold for $10.000 & a Pinky Gillum that sold for $18,650.00
post #29 of 102
The "high end" folks always amuse me with their justifications for blowing an almost obscene wad of cash regularly when the return is no better than the common schlub that can only throw a few c-notes at an outfit.

The fish typically don't know it's a Temple Fork setup until you manage to get them near the surface.....

A "botique" market can and will almost always exist for those that know and can appreciate the difference.

Now....I didn't say that in their hands it meant anything...it just means that they know the difference and are willing to put up the money for it.

The best thing that can happen to the sport right now is affordable gear. Go to the shows....the appeal necessary for continuation of the sport to a younger generation is minimal. Being shut out by having to drop a grand on a set up is not helping bring new blood in.
post #30 of 102
No doubt investment rods get out of control.



I was pointing us to current costly selections from Tom's Rodsmiths line of rods.



mud
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