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ALPS Guides - Page 2

post #16 of 28
Hi Kevin,

I want to set the record straight about something in your post, no offense intended.

I will not speak for Alp’s processes but I can say that only American Tackle offers “Ring Lock†guides or employs the “Ring Lock Systemâ€. The guides feature a number of characteristics that work together to hold rings in guide frames better which constitutes our “Ring Lock†technology. We realize that no single feature will eliminate ring loss so we combine frame-design, added bracing, pressure-fit, glue reservoir, stronger ceramics & ring encapsulation to eliminate possible failure. We spent a lot of time and money focusing on avoiding previous and future problems related to any ring loss. With no reference to Alps, several Asian designed guides like the idea of having a deep-press frame style but American Tackle’s goal in offering “Ring Lock†guides was to never encounter this problem again. I just want to separate our “Ring Lock†mention in your post from other guide designs, I am sure Alps would appreciate this as well.

Best Regards,

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company
 
post #17 of 28
I have experienced failure and ring loss with the alps lighter style guides I believe they label these UD however I have had zero issues with the XN style.
Also it should be noted that upon notice of guide failure the batson boys immediately made it right.

I think most of the Guide companies have gotten better about replacing broken guides especially when it is a flaw in the design or craftmanship.
Even some of the rod companies are beginning to stand behind the factory guides they installed on their rods.
post #18 of 28
I read their site about the "zirconium" ring materials and after reading it assume they are Zirconium Oxide rings not zirconium metal which is very similar to titanium metal.. Zirconium oxide can be a very tough material depending on the exact ceramic and how its made. Higher toughness is exactly what guide rings need more of.

As far as all the coatings they show , I guess they are for adding color. There are wear reasons for using PVD coatings of say TiN , etc but just from the general description of their guide materials , I think the coatings simply add color.

I should write a post about ceramic materials that may make good guide materials. Silicom nitride is very tough stuff. its not as hard as some ceramics but I think its plenty hard for guides.TiC /aluminum oxide mix about 20/80 by volume come to mind as a material known to be very tough. I'm surprised they haven't shown up as ring materials yet.
post #19 of 28
Yeah awhile back a buddy of mine was explaining ring materials to a customer the guy wasnt really getting it so he took a triangle file and inserted in an sic guide passed it 10 times with no grove he did the same thing to 3 other guides and only the silcon nitride held up.
I dont know how other brands would hold up to that type of test but I was very impressed and the customer got the point pretty quick.
post #20 of 28
A ceramic ring material post would be quite interesting indeed.

I believe that most ceramic rings used these days are quite strong from the standpoint of wear. Other then wire, mono & braided lines have little effect on them. They are polished very smooth and even the “soft†rings are quite hard, harder then stainless steel rings in fact. Their problem is breakage however most rings that are “brittle†will not be used by manufacturers since mounting them in the metal frames can take it’s toll. Generally the low cost of the ring will not outweigh the loss in material & time. Material content in the ceramic certainly makes a difference in polishing, hardness, and durability but adding a PVD coating can also add hardness to the ring if even on the surface. Eventually, the coating wears in the spot where line travels back and forth but it‘s very difficult to detect through the different colors of the coating. As I understand it, not all ceramics are suitable for the PVD process. Apparently the ring has to have some degree of porosity in order for the particles to adhere. SiC for instance is very dense (hard) without enough porosity for a coating to stick. The hardness could account for why it seems to shatter easier then some other rings, although some lesser quality rings break very easily as well. In reality, the majority of rings will perform adequately but “toughness†as it was mentioned is key. In our search for rings we required a quality (for polishing & line wear) ring that could be made thinner (to reduce weight) but still maintain structural integrity in the field and when mounting in frames during production. Economics always play a factor as well since a total product package includes not only one complete guide but many in the set. Any new guide ring development has to fit what the market can afford.

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company
post #21 of 28
Great explanation, thanks!
post #22 of 28
Darren, you picking on me again?
I think I was just commenting on what the guy asked about alps. Did you notice that I have though recommended your guides? You and Joe should keep posting about your latest offerings, I do all the time because it's obvious you guys will soon leave the other popular brands in the dust.
You have a good way of explaining them to the others.
I call them "the guide of the future".

Tell Chase I need a dozen more sets, 40-12mm pronto!!!
failure to do so will result in all fishing priveliges being revoked until further notice.
post #23 of 28
My comment that the coatings appear to be mostly for color stems from the many different coatings listed and they are all different colors. Coating say cutting tool bits with the gold colored TiN is for added wear. In this case , the many different colors/coatings and the fact that they are being placed over ceramics that are already plenty hard for fishing applications , lead me to think its a color thing.

It surprises me how color sells and how many people actually choose guides with color as the primary motivator. I guess people want the whole rod "color coordinated" .
post #24 of 28
yeah just wait shimano has many different color rods coming.
post #25 of 28
Color and material selection is an interesting topic in itself. From my vantage point I would have to say as a company we cater to both the custom builder market and the manufacturing sector. One would think they both build for the same consumer base, fishermen. There are actually 3 groups included here, one being “custom builders†who build for themselves, another being customers of “custom builders†and the final group consists of the “fishing†public targeted by rod companies. Being a rod builder myself, I like anything different such as colored guide rings, different handle materials and decorative threadwork. So I fall in the first group but the second group might be anyone who wants me to build them a rod where they want something different but not out of the ordinary. Colored rings and thread are perfect for that type of rod. The last and largest group is where the I am often asked for help with ideas on new products. My help generally consists of providing market trend observations, component option ideas and more recently the incorporation of “custom builder†tendencies. Although more rod brands are thinking outside the box, they have to offer what is considered “safe†for consumer tolerance. This is where chrome is flashy but black sells, split grips are bold but done in cork/EVA are acceptable. The fact is that the majority rod volume sold is always pretty basic however recent trends have shown that color can sell too. Maybe it’s due to the growing “custom builder†market or maybe it’s because fishermen are tired of plain ol black, either way component selection has never been more diverse.
Not picking on you Kevin, we appreciate the good word! I see that we’ll have to stay on the announcements to get you to use the proper names and descriptions though.

Best Regards,

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company
post #26 of 28

I use alps LXN and XN guides only ss poulished frames. No issue.

post #27 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy 40 View Post

I do not know what country they are made in, maybe Korea, maybe Tiawan. The company is ALPS though. They were available from Ross Van Eckevort in Australia (Rod & Reel Works I think is the name) before they were available here. I don't think it matter who makes them, because whoever does, is doing a great job.


this is second hand nfo so take it with a grain of salt please.

 

the developer of alps once was a head developer for winthrop and branched of on his own. the manufacture is the same from what i was told. 

 

i will agree they do have other colors and even a 80/130 class roller guide that is massive.. they can be special ordered (i have his business card around the house) along with the anodized colors as well.

 

most of the apls roller guides sold in the states are the 50class and fit a #2 pencil inside the guide.. a 100lb knot will clear the guides with ease.. even the tip..

 

long story short..

 

i had a set roughly 4 years ago on a custom rod. avet 80w when they first hit stateside. minus a general cleaning after fishing i have yet to "service" them.

 

my local rod builder wouldn't use them on a build 2 years ago for me he swears by aftco rollers...  i have had them worked on a few times because of locking up...  so my next build will be with alps..

post #28 of 28

IMG_2799.JPG 3,200k .JPG file

 

 

alsp xn + lxn + fuji tip

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