wingsandwater Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Im putting in 6 recessed lights in my living room w/ a dimmer switch. I want to run a new breaker for this as i have plenty of room on my panel and the other circuits have alot on them as it is. I have a 200 amp main breaker. I and getting conflicting advise from an electrician and a "do it all" contractor. All of my breakers now are 20 amp. My friend who is an electrician said to use 12-2 wire to the 20 amp breaker. He said that the dimmer will pull more juice than you realize and would recommend 12-2. My neighbor who is a contractor said to use 14 gauge on a 15 am breaker. He said all lighting should be w/ 14 gauge on a 15 amp breaker. So my question is what should I do? Im not even sure they make 15 amp breakers that are designed for my 200 amp main breaker. Everything i have is 20 amp. Are 15 amp breakers available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_M Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 What are friends for? You asked a qualified guy not looking to rip you off; that should have been the end of it. There are no absolutes so when the guy says "all lighting should be on 15amp" you know he doesn't "really" know jack. See you on the big one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingsandwater Posted March 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 What are friends for? You asked a qualified guy not looking to rip you off; that should have been the end of it. There are no absolutes so when the guy says "all lighting should be on 15amp" you know he doesn't "really" know jack. Thanks, he does commercial electric stuff(power company), not residential. He does know his stuff and i do trust him. Its just after my neighbor said that, I'm second guessing myself. I think his reasoning is because he said the light wont trip the 20 amp breaker if something goes wrong. Please excuse my ignorance. I have no problem running wiring, after i get the correct components and directions. Thanks for the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimW Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Truth is, it depends on the load. What are the lamps rated for? Likely you could also use 14-2 on a 15A but there is no harm in having excess capacity with 12-2 20A. Lot's of dimmers around that may not be able to handle 6 lamps so make sure you get one that won't be over loaded "I have ... put a lump of ice into an equal quantity of water ... if a little sea salt be added to the water we shall produce a fluid sensibly colder than the ice was in the beginning, which has appeared a curious and puzzling thing to those unacquainted with the general fact."- Joseph Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Large John Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 I am by no means an electrician however you can do either one the 14 guage is easier to work with but that being said I run almost all of my lights and outlets on 12 guage. The electrician who ran my house used 14 for everything when I finished my basment and the shop area I used 12guage. It gives you a bit more room to run lines without worring what you are going to put on the line Think about it ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingsandwater Posted March 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 I am by no means an electrician however you can do either one the 14 guage is easier to work with but that being said I run almost all of my lights and outlets on 12 guage. The electrician who ran my house used 14 for everything when I finished my basment and the shop area I used 12guage. It gives you a bit more room to run lines without worring what you are going to put on the line Thanks for the input and keep it comming I though fishing the wire up 2 stories would be the hardest part but i followed a sewer exhaust pipe down and its gonna be cake to run any size wire to where I need it, thank God Im think 12-2 is gonna be the ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big popper Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 if your gonna do the run,run 3-wire that way you could have 2 circuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwilly11189 Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 also if cost isn't a factor go with 12 gauge as you can always run 14 gauge off a 12 gauge, but not a 12 gauge off a 14 gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedracer Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Most lighting circuits in residential construction are 15 amp. Most receptacle circuits are 15 amp too. Special purpose receptacles like those used for GFCI's, refrigerators,kitchen receptacles,workshops, and microwaves are almost all 20 amp. If you're only running power for 6 recessed lights, 14/2 Romex wire and a 15 amp breaker is all ya need. Some people use 12/2 Romex for their 15 amp circuits. Theres less power drop off on long runs. Good luck You're getting sleepy. ....very sleepy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasko Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 You can use a 15amp breaker with 14-2 wire and a 1000w dimmer. Most recessed units are 75w or under many are 60w and 40w max. Regardless of the existing breakers, you can install the correct ampacity breaker for the load required. Even if you use 6 100w bulbs in the fixtures, you would only be at 600W max. which = 5 amps on your circuit rated for 15amps, well within the continuous use rating of the wire. Dimmers don't draw more electricty than the load on them, they do generate heat and have wattage rattings that should not be maxed out, thus the 1000w rating recomendation for your project. Post the type of panel you have and I can direct you to locations which have 15amp breakers for the brand you have. With the hi hats you are installing, be sure to get ones with IC ratings if they are to be in insulated bays. If they are airtight, be sure to follow the bulb TYPE recommendations,(such as BR) as standard "type A" base will cause the lights to over heat. Do not put flourescent bulbs in fixtures that are controlled by dimmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasko Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 also if cost isn't a factor go with 12 gauge as you can always run 14 gauge off a 12 gauge, but not a 12 gauge off a 14 gauge. No you cannot. Mixed amperage wire splices are a violation except in very certain applications. What you have suggested is a good recipe for fire. What you are saying is adding 14 awg to a 20 awg 20 amp home run? Perhaps your next suggestion will be aluminum wire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingsandwater Posted March 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 You can use a 15amp breaker with 14-2 wire and a 1000w dimmer. Most recessed units are 75w or under many are 60w and 40w max. Regardless of the existing breakers, you can install the correct ampacity breaker for the load required. Even if you use 6 100w bulbs in the fixtures, you would only be at 600W max. which = 5 amps on your circuit rated for 15amps, well within the continuous use rating of the wire. Dimmers don't draw more electricty than the load on them, they do generate heat and have wattage rattings that should not be maxed out, thus the 1000w rating recomendation for your project. Post the type of panel you have and I can direct you to locations which have 15amp breakers for the brand you have. With the hi hats you are installing, be sure to get ones with IC ratings if they are to be in insulated bays. If they are airtight, be sure to follow the bulb TYPE recommendations,(such as BR) as standard "type A" base will cause the lights to over heat. Do not put flourescent bulbs in fixtures that are controlled by dimmers. Great info, Thanks. I did make sure i got IC hi hats and yes they are airtight. I bought the reccomended bulbs, but will double check before installing (def. not flourescent). I'll post tonight which panel i have, and i know i can get the 20 amp beakers for my panel at home depot. I do have 75 ft of 14-3 laying around and i can just cap the red right? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwilly11189 Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 No you cannot. Mixed amperage wire splices are a violation except in very certain applications. What you have suggested is a good recipe for fire. What you are saying is adding 14 awg to a 20 awg 20 amp home run? Perhaps your next suggestion will be aluminum wire? NO you misread. I'm saying you could run say a 12 gauge to a junction box, then run 14 gauge from the box to the 15-amp outlet. I agree, you cannot run say a 14 gauge to a j-box then run 12 gauge from that to a 20-amp outlet. Ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasko Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 I see your idea, using 12 awg later in the run, but it is still a violation. you cannot combine mixed amperage conductors in almost all situations, especially branch circuits in residential. Just kidding about the aluminum too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canyondiver Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 NO you misread. I'm saying you could run say a 12 gauge to a junction box, then run 14 gauge from the box to the 15-amp outlet. I agree, you cannot run say a 14 gauge to a j-box then run 12 gauge from that to a 20-amp outlet. Ok... Wrong on both accounts!! That is mixing wire gauges and it is basically never done. If you have 14 running from a 12 you have a 20 amp breaker on a 14 wire, see the problem?? If you put 12 on a 14 someone might see the 12, assume there is a 20 amp breaker at the end and run the wrong stuff on it, causing the breaker to blow too frequently. Either is very bad!! Basic rule? NEVER MIX WIRE GAUGES! Kabish? BTW, your lighting fixtures and dimer, unless you get a 20A dimmer and special lights are designed to run on 15A, so I suggest you do not use 12 wire, as you will have a 20A breaker on your stuff. The code book was actually written, and gets revised for a reason Proud to be a NERB and I have the shirts to prove it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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