Winch

The Official! "Okay whose ready to take the darter leap?" Thread

471 posts in this topic

Winch,

 

You weighting actually sounds like it might have a shot a working. A lot of the guys who use AYC add a belly weight about 2/3 of the way back from the nose.

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Redwood does not make a good darter, how ever it makes a upside darter like popper pretty well!

The redwood darter failed miserbly which is part of tinkering. My thought on using the redwood was how easy it works on saws and the sander. I could manipulate it much easier than maple or even Ayc.

However with a tail weight, and a belly weight the plugs nose never would bite and just came in upside down on the surface. It was a nice looking plug but after some heavy adjustments it has been set aside in the land of misfit plugs.

What adjustments did I try? Well first off I drilled another hole near the chin and added weight to see if that would bring the nose down. Nope, next I tried redrilling the front exit hole lower, nope, then I tried the weight and new positioned wire. Nope still swam like poop. So my first discovery is the wood I want for this project needs to be dense and as was mentioned I just turned and cut three new generation maple darters. By using redwood I discovered how to attack the wood working procedures to make a simple but effective way to cut and turn. One of the main things I did differently than when I build any other plugs is through drilling the hole first before turning the plug. This gave me not only a centered hole but also a guid in the process of sanding and cutting the lip sequence. The time spent for making the three maple bars was quick and trouble free. I also took a couple of commercially built darters out and looked at line placement, and felt for the balance point of each.

The Gibbs, beachmaster, and plastic super strike all seem to be weighted towards the tail! This surprised me, and since I won't cut a plug in half to see the weighting. I'll do a search on SOL for Chopsaw MacNewlly and tablesaw Tagger and see what kind of mayhem they have posted on the death of a darter. wink.gif

What I will be looking at is where the weight was cast and positions of hook placement. On my first proto compared to both the gibbs and the beachmaster my hook placement was too far back. Perhaps this will add to keeping the nose down on the new proto's.

On the Gibbs I noticed through the paint a drill hole right behind the hook, while on the beachmaster I see the weight drilled in from the rear like a pencil popper. Both seem to me to be saying back weight and no front weight. So off to research and see what I can see.

Hey jigs I might even cheat and use the FAQ's thread! biggrin.gif Shhh don't tell if I do.

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Okay I promise I have not dove into the Faq's thread but am doing it the old fashioned way with the new search Tim has:

I have to say I have found some awesome stuff doing search that I bet is not in the FAQ's thread. Look and search you'll learn more than what's in the book.

Here is a perfect quote for us darter newbies:

 

The "standard" for darter weighting is a belly slug about one-third the body length from the tail (e.g., a 6 inch body gets weight about 2 inches from the tail), although some body styles seem to function just fine without any weight added. A slight tail sag (30 degrees or less) is OK, as long as the lip is not bobbing out of the water.

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Another quote from a member who rarely post anymore that is good:

 

I usually don't weight my darters and I get great action out of them. However, it is my understanding that if you are going to weight a darter, it should be close/on the center of balance, as this will enhance the action. Does everyone else concur?

 

So weightless darters might be next for me to try. Hmmmmmmm

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Another quote from an old timer: Weight to the rear makes them cast better and fish shallower....too much weight to the rear makes them roll over and skim on top.

 

Weight in the center is a good balancing point and will help them get started in the water. It will make controlling their depth/action easier by changing hook sizes..something I do with many plugs.

 

Weight more towards the front will make the dig and dive deeper, might cause them to tumble more and tangle the leader.

 

I think that most use darters as a shallow running but long casting lure...as such, I would think any popular darter should be weighted at about 2/3 towards the rear. For a deep diving darter, move the weight more forward. Substantial weight would also affect the plugs "wiggle"...towards the rear, less wiggle...center a little more wiggle...front even more wiggle

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winchmaster,I was wondering what your thoughts were, are we going to do a step by step kind of thing or everyone try something and have a meeting of the minds? ed

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winchmaster,I was wondering what your thoughts were, are we going to do a step by step kind of thing or everyone try something and have a meeting of the minds? ed

 

Stripercrazy your actually looking into how my mind works. (No not the x-ray jigman!)

I'm doing on site with this just like I do in my shop. Tinkering and relaying information as I figure it out. I'm hoping others will add by asking questions or sharing what they have discovered. This is how we used to work around here when "discovering a plug" Info came from many sources and test were preformed by others. If your having problems following my mind then stop me and ask a question. If you find something somewhere in building a darter add to this post. If you see me screwing up or think of another way then post.

What I can tell you if your interested is do the search through google on the site. In the search you will find post on how to shape, cut and form all the outer parts of a darter. I tinkered and figured a way to do the outside work by looking in search and probably skipped parts others may want to know. So if a certain question is asked I will point the way to what I found on site. If your interested in how I'm doing it, don't be as I'm dealing with a lure that is very foreign to me. Reading the post from 2001, 2002, 2003 have some great ways to build a darter. I'm past that point and now I'm looking at what I can discover in weighting the lure to make it swim proper. I hope others are doing the same and will post.

Okay does that all make sense? If so explain it to me because I confused myself! cwm12.gif

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So Stripercrazy from the quotes I posted from the past are you getting an idea as to where position the lead is best? Most of my regular builds are done and I'm tinkering. Heck this proto may not work and I may never finish building a darter that swims but by doing this I am learning more about my tools and about the lures I build. Lessons learned by trial and error in making something from scratch helps in me understanding what is going on.

So tinker with me and lets see what we come up with.

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winchmaster, sounds good icon14.gif I've got some cherry, I'll turn a few blanks tomarrow biggrin.gif I've been looking at some of the older post and have somewhat of a understanding of the weighting. some good posts icon14.gif ed

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I have failed and gone to plan B (screweyes)I didn't thru drill first, I was worried about the face cuts, I lost about a inch untill I got it close.when I tried to drill it on the lathe, the angle of the top cut and the angle of the bit didn't want to go into the body, it was going to leave almost a inch before the bit dug into the body. tried to help it, and the bit walked alittle, when the epoxy dries I screw it fgtyh.JPG

ertyujh.JPG

mkliop.JPG

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I messed around with darters some years ago. Some worked, some didn't. The best luck I had was following the directions that Frech had in his Montauk Darter article. I did some of AYC and some of birch. Screw eyes on all of them. Lead was about 1/3 of the plug length from the tail. You want them weighed so that the tail drops down some and the lip is about even with the water line. What helped most was setting up a jig to make all the cuts on the bandsaw. Doing them by hand sucks! If I remember right, the location of the line tie was also important, about 1/8 inch back on the top of the lip. Also test them in moving water.

 

Don't really use darters much, though I think they would likely work in some of the river areas I fish. The above are just some ramblings, I am by no means a darter guru. More like a darter googan redface.gif

 

Interesting thread Winch icon14.gif Brings back some memories from several years ago crying.gifsmile.gif

 

Jigman

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Don't really use darters much, though I think they would likely work in some of the river areas I fish.

Jigman

 

I'd bet they'd be deadly slow-trolled abut 60 feet back in that Cumberland place you go to. wink.gif

 

I must have 40-50 darter protos lying around the garage; the usual suspects as it were: fat, skinny, "normal", short, long, hardwood, softwood, screws and throughs, with and without lead, notched and unnotched. Some I can't even describe (but secretly wish I could get some more of whatever I was on when I conceived them).

 

As one sage told me, "it the battle of the lip and tail"... the Yin/Yang of lures. It's about balance and harmony. Winch is having too much fun, peaking back in time and trying to shake the shack-nasties, to hand him a "how-to". Besides, by his own admission, he wouldn't appreciate it as much. But, here's a clue, Winch... you can get just about any shape to dart, if you give it enough surface to plane off of, and don't give either end the advantage.

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