tomkaz

"Should beach-based shark fishing be banned in Florida?"

29 posts in this topic

From what I have seen, it has been leading towards this for years with the influx of social media and tubers. This breeds uneducation and like Jerfoffson said people want to catch big fish. The majority of shark guys I know are googans following the bandwagon of what sells on the tube which is sharks and goliaths, big fish. They come out with no hands on experience and try to do what they see on social media because the allure is there and they didn't learn the right way how to catch the target species. Same guys that want to fix the problem are a major part of the problem and their need for internet fame well surpasses their ethics despite whatever undeserved praise you want to give them. Have seen it countless times,  and gets worse every year with the followers. More exposure out of water, more camera angles, more pics, and more dead fish. FWC needs to lay down some strict guidelines or the land based fishery will be lost forever, because social media has forever changed the sport for the worst and the general public will always focus on the negatives of it. 

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On 8/9/2018 at 2:59 AM, dennysnook said:

From what I have seen, it has been leading towards this for years with the influx of social media and tubers. This breeds uneducation and like Jerfoffson said people want to catch big fish. The majority of shark guys I know are googans following the bandwagon of what sells on the tube which is sharks and goliaths, big fish. They come out with no hands on experience and try to do what they see on social media because the allure is there and they didn't learn the right way how to catch the target species. Same guys that want to fix the problem are a major part of the problem and their need for internet fame well surpasses their ethics despite whatever undeserved praise you want to give them. Have seen it countless times,  and gets worse every year with the followers. More exposure out of water, more camera angles, more pics, and more dead fish. FWC needs to lay down some strict guidelines or the land based fishery will be lost forever, because social media has forever changed the sport for the worst and the general public will always focus on the negatives of it. 

Social media has changed EVERYTHING, some things for the better, a lot for the worse.

 

Fishing unfortunately is in the latter category as denny said.

 

My bet is that the FWC, within 2 years, restricts or regulates land-based shark fishing.

 

 

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54 mins ago, DennisBKLYN215 said:

Social media has changed EVERYTHING, some things for the better, a lot for the worse.

 

Fishing unfortunately is in the latter category as denny said.

 

My bet is that the FWC, within 2 years, restricts or regulates land-based shark fishing.

 

 

It has gotten pretty bad, especially at Sebastian. Josh's claim to youtube fame was an inlet shark video, Landshark and CatchemAll are frequent visitors, and my buddy Antonelli spot burned the crap out of the place for a career start. I have been debating the tube for years because the money is there and can fish for what I want, but being that the nature of where I fish and growing up old school, I haven't been able to follow through ethically. Is my biggest problem with what I have seen with the tube crowd. 

 

BlacktipH stole one of my friends blue runners off the ground because nobody would give him a jack because I was there and they wanted goliath bait after he threw me under the bus, he tried to film me catching a world class bull red and I firmly objected because of spotburning which upset him and was baffled because I didn't take a picture of a red over 50" because I fought it hard on light snook tackle and it was stressed, seen them beach goliaths soley for social media sake, and many other ethical offenses for media sake. None of the current guys I know "get it" so when people praise a big part the problem it does irritate me knowing the actual truth of their ethics and reasoning that is money and like driven. Fish primarily get set to the wayside when filming is the priority.

 

I ask these kids that come out with grossly undersized gear and no experience where they learned about shark fishing from and atleast 50% of the time it has relation to social media. These guys that specialize in this have to take notice and emphasize proper handling techniques and make that a larger portion of content. Even with rules you will still get inexperienced followers who are clueless to them

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5 hours ago, DennisBKLYN215 said:

I  would hope that the guy who stole your buddy's fish had the favor repaid in some form.

It was Josh lol. He just gets more famous, more sponsors, and more cocky but will always be a googan who gets no respect from the long term locals who actually know him and have seen the behind the scenes stuff. Lost my respect long ago and I get along with everyone, but once you burn me you can never get respect back. His voice matters on this subject so he should be involved regardless though of my feelings for him. Upsetting if he wasn't involved in the first meetings 

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13 hours ago, dennysnook said:

It was Josh lol. He just gets more famous, more sponsors, and more cocky but will always be a googan who gets no respect from the long term locals who actually know him and have seen the behind the scenes stuff. Lost my respect long ago and I get along with everyone, but once you burn me you can never get respect back. His voice matters on this subject so he should be involved regardless though of my feelings for him. Upsetting if he wasn't involved in the first meetings 

Don't you make your living killing fish for

cash? If I remember correctly, you have been posting pics

for years that other locals might have considered spot burns.

Obviously I don't agree w the utubers ethics or fish handling,

but isn't a dead fish for cash,still a dead fish for cash?

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Last thing in the world I expected, this topic turning into a Josh bashing thread. I know Josh as well. For anyone who doesn't, he's done quite well for himself with his YouTube channel,  'Blacktiph Fishing'. He started out as a little kid. He pioneered catch and release surf fishing for blacktip sharks here on Florida's east coast. In most of his related surf fishing videos, he focuses on proper catch and release, explaining and educating in detail proper fishing techniques and/or tackle design.  

 

Now, with the advent of all this negative LBSF media coverage, he's one of the FEW Tubers who put the brakes on most of his popular LBSF video activity. He even terminated his ever popular Blacktiph Challenge fishing tournament, which was getting huge and gaining him a LOT of sucess and fame at the expense of a lot of negative press. Yet he still threw in the towel in favor of calming things down by keeping his videos out of the LBSF spotlight and moving them over to more an offshore content.

 

Regardless of past "rubs" with some here on SOL forum, lot of guys (like a million followers) look up to Josh and respect him highly. So let's try to keep things in prospective about the general topic here instead of bringing up old personal conflicts about people who are not even here to defend themselves and give their side of the story.

 

My 2 Pennies. 

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I have known Josh for about ten years, through my sons who befriended him on the beach. I and my sons have been involved with four of Josh's weekly video episodes and I have had several dozen opportunities to fish with him. In my opinion, Josh is being maligned above unfairly based on a negative event and laying a general complaint about social media fishing personalities at his feet. 

 

Without question Josh is enthusiastic and can get as excited as a little kid when fish are on. During a blitz or frenzy, he can get quite focused on getting a baited hook back in the water and hooking up. And, as it happens, if the cameras are rolling to get footage, he’s going to focus on that. Sometime to a fault. 

 

Zane says much of what I could say about Josh's position in the community. As he points out, Josh has moved away from a strict focus on shore-based fishing with few of his weekly episodes about LBF for anything. 

 

I cant speak for others but I have an idea of Josh's costs and production process. Depending on the circumstances, a full video from breakfast through post-production and rendering can cost $4-8,000 and dozens of manhours. Then there’s the cost of hardware, gear, fuel, etc. Add to that the fact that YouTube’s has been cutting back in the value of views and it is a tough way to make a living. 

 

Josh now has a wife and two daughters so his life is far more complicated today. He does not fish on Sundays as they are set aside for family. While you might not know it, Josh is a very spiritual man who reads scripture daily. 

 

People resent that he has sponsors but he’s worked years and years to get those. And while there is gear and the like, there’s not nearly as much cash involved as people think. 

 

As for spot burning, I have been with Josh and have filmed his IG my story or other live broadcasts and he usually goes to lengths to make sure a location is not visible, if it needs to be protected. Private water or a secluded bay, he protects. But, if he is fishing a major jetty or pier in Martin or PB counties, there are only a few of those and only so many ways to not show them. It is not like Sebastian or the pump house at Lake Worth Inlet are secret spots. I can’t make speak for others who post but 

Josh is respectful when it matters. 

 

As for yahoos and googans who come to fish with the wrong gear, how can you blame Josh for that? He goes to great lengths to discuss and/or his gear on most videos. He has links to his Blacktiph combos at Tackle Direct. And he’s done instruction videos in the past which focus on gear, rigging, etc. Heck, back in the 1970s I saw guys bring FW bass gear onto night boats for ocean bluefish. That was well before social media's influence. 

 

Lastly, Josh is a great champion of the sport and of conservation. I have seen him take time out of fishing to help release a hooked pelican or other bird assuring a good release where the guy hooked to the bird might have just killed it. I have seen him take time to teach kids how to cast correctly off the beach. I have seen him chat up his adolescent fans who recognize him when we are walking the beach or jetty. Josh is one of the good guys. 

 

I appreciate regulars at any place can get agreavated with the "invaders" and weekend warriors who they see encroaching in their home turf. That is natural. I have debated it with Simon who, if you fish Sebastian, you know. I have discussed it with Lyd, who I met through Josh, at Sebastian (I have never met Mike). I get it just as I get the annoyance of headboat regulars when the fishing reports heat up and the rails get crowded, too crowded. 

 

But ours is a sport in general decline and we need to hope people stay interested. The states need the revenue. The manufacturers need the sales. And social media is a two-edged sword that both gives and takes away from our experiences. 

 

Sorry, a long screed defending a friend, a fine angler and a spirited ambassador to our sport. 

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On 8/11/2018 at 11:27 AM, yosco said:

Don't you make your living killing fish for

cash? If I remember correctly, you have been posting pics

for years that other locals might have considered spot burns.

Obviously I don't agree w the utubers ethics or fish handling,

but isn't a dead fish for cash,still a dead fish for cash?

 

Out of the few pictures I take I never post anything publicly or thru social media when the run is on that will affect my fellow anglers. Posted one picture here for Zcoker to let him know the bull sharks were in very late in a thread, that's it. Why I post on a northern forum with only minimal members and I am very wise about what I post with the first concern for my peers. Comparing me to someone with a million followers or the immediate posters who post without regard isn't even comparable, as is someone who kills fish commercially to make a living isn't comparable to doing it for sport and glory. Everything I catch that is not legal or to eat recreationally is returned ethically to the resource so there is a huge difference if you ask me, put your opinion may very.

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21 hours ago, tomkaz said:

I have known Josh for about ten years, through my sons who befriended him on the beach. I and my sons have been involved with four of Josh's weekly video episodes and I have had several dozen opportunities to fish with him. In my opinion, Josh is being maligned above unfairly based on a negative event and laying a general complaint about social media fishing personalities at his feet. 

 

Without question Josh is enthusiastic and can get as excited as a little kid when fish are on. During a blitz or frenzy, he can get quite focused on getting a baited hook back in the water and hooking up. And, as it happens, if the cameras are rolling to get footage, he’s going to focus on that. Sometime to a fault. 

 

Zane says much of what I could say about Josh's position in the community. As he points out, Josh has moved away from a strict focus on shore-based fishing with few of his weekly episodes about LBF for anything. 

 

I cant speak for others but I have an idea of Josh's costs and production process. Depending on the circumstances, a full video from breakfast through post-production and rendering can cost $4-8,000 and dozens of manhours. Then there’s the cost of hardware, gear, fuel, etc. Add to that the fact that YouTube’s has been cutting back in the value of views and it is a tough way to make a living. 

 

Josh now has a wife and two daughters so his life is far more complicated today. He does not fish on Sundays as they are set aside for family. While you might not know it, Josh is a very spiritual man who reads scripture daily. 

 

People resent that he has sponsors but he’s worked years and years to get those. And while there is gear and the like, there’s not nearly as much cash involved as people think. 

 

As for spot burning, I have been with Josh and have filmed his IG my story or other live broadcasts and he usually goes to lengths to make sure a location is not visible, if it needs to be protected. Private water or a secluded bay, he protects. But, if he is fishing a major jetty or pier in Martin or PB counties, there are only a few of those and only so many ways to not show them. It is not like Sebastian or the pump house at Lake Worth Inlet are secret spots. I can’t make speak for others who post but 

Josh is respectful when it matters. 

 

As for yahoos and googans who come to fish with the wrong gear, how can you blame Josh for that? He goes to great lengths to discuss and/or his gear on most videos. He has links to his Blacktiph combos at Tackle Direct. And he’s done instruction videos in the past which focus on gear, rigging, etc. Heck, back in the 1970s I saw guys bring FW bass gear onto night boats for ocean bluefish. That was well before social media's influence. 

 

Lastly, Josh is a great champion of the sport and of conservation. I have seen him take time out of fishing to help release a hooked pelican or other bird assuring a good release where the guy hooked to the bird might have just killed it. I have seen him take time to teach kids how to cast correctly off the beach. I have seen him chat up his adolescent fans who recognize him when we are walking the beach or jetty. Josh is one of the good guys. 

 

I appreciate regulars at any place can get agreavated with the "invaders" and weekend warriors who they see encroaching in their home turf. That is natural. I have debated it with Simon who, if you fish Sebastian, you know. I have discussed it with Lyd, who I met through Josh, at Sebastian (I have never met Mike). I get it just as I get the annoyance of headboat regulars when the fishing reports heat up and the rails get crowded, too crowded. 

 

But ours is a sport in general decline and we need to hope people stay interested. The states need the revenue. The manufacturers need the sales. And social media is a two-edged sword that both gives and takes away from our experiences. 

 

Sorry, a long screed defending a friend, a fine angler and a spirited ambassador to our sport. 

This wasn't meant to turn into a Josh bashing thread, but as you can tell I do not like or respect him and mentioned him and fellow socialists as a primary cause on this subject. He never caught anything when he came up, has poor mechanics, and isn't very educated on inlet tactics despite his time so he falls under the googan category for me and haven't watched any of his videos in many years. Glad you have had good experiences with him, but any recent of mine and many friends have been on the negative side so have a strong opinion. I personally won't ever talk to him again because of his actions. He recently turned his back on someone who gave him inlet itel and helped him learn which started his career, so despite your kind words towards him I have plenty of ammo to prove my dislike and never respect him ever again. Any consolation he was a nice kid once to me.

 

I know all the locals at Sebastian. Who you mentioned are the worst examples of people to discuss spot burning with due to their social media exposure, and they have all done it heavily at one time or another. You can't say you dislike out of towners then turn around and post every fish you catch the next day. Mike and Lyd have modified their posting if they do and barely, if any, fish the inlet anymore, but Simon still posts all the time. All my friends, but I am not bashful about calling them out publically on it either because they have been causing the traffic problems but are first to complain about it. I'm still old school and you have to put in your time to learn intel and gain my respect to share it with you, and feel publicly broadcasting on social media for likes or glory is very very different. Can guarantee I have helped more people learn that place then all of them combined, but do so educating them about the ethics and respect along the way. When you post freely and have many followers it draws a completely different type of uneducated crowd that affect the local's fishing. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, dennysnook said:

This wasn't meant to turn into a Josh bashing thread, but

 

Hear you loud and clear. 

Edited by tomkaz

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Obviously, there’s an inflamed history here amongst fishermen that’s still burning strong. Lot of these guys on social media deserve it, will do ANYTHING and ANY cost to get where they are at today. I have the same problem with some of them myself, especially nowadays with the FWC going strong with LBSF. Lot of them still posts protected sharks out of the water, totally dry-beached, one of the hot topics with FWC right now. And these guys KNOW what’s going on! They know what the FWC’s agenda is yet they still toss it over their shoulder like it means absolutely nothing.

One of them (yes, you may know the popular video) posted a series about catching a bunch of hammerheads in a single day. The spot in question during the filming is a hammerhead spawning area. Of course the bite was on! The video showed the sharks being caught, pulled in and then a gap and later you see the sharks swimming off. There’s clearly editing done on every release.

What the video doesn’t show is the still shots, the money shots on Instagram by various guys participating that day, bloody mouth’s pulled wide open, totally dry-beached, practically sitting on them…. A savvy reporter found these same photos and reported them to the FWC. Then, a few days later on the same beach, dead hammerheads were reported washed ashore.

It’s crap like this that pisses me off. You’d think these so called “pros” would have enough common sense to cool it, especially when the heat is on for the very sharks that they are targeting. One may think a video is genuine, popular and so humble and so perfectly righteous but little do they know just how fake they really are…total BS full of lies for the sake of the glory or the ratings or the followers…..

Things like this are precisely what have turned social media (places like YouTube) into total illusion….very destructible in the wrong hands. Just remember that true life is true life but with the swift hand of mankind “editing” brings about a sort of commanding force that is easier done than said.  

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4 hours ago, zcoker said:

Obviously, there’s an inflamed history here amongst fishermen that’s still burning strong. Lot of these guys on social media deserve it, will do ANYTHING and ANY cost to get where they are at today. I have the same problem with some of them myself, especially nowadays with the FWC going strong with LBSF. Lot of them still posts protected sharks out of the water, totally dry-beached, one of the hot topics with FWC right now. And these guys KNOW what’s going on! They know what the FWC’s agenda is yet they still toss it over their shoulder like it means absolutely nothing.

One of them (yes, you may know the popular video) posted a series about catching a bunch of hammerheads in a single day. The spot in question during the filming is a hammerhead spawning area. Of course the bite was on! The video showed the sharks being caught, pulled in and then a gap and later you see the sharks swimming off. There’s clearly editing done on every release.

What the video doesn’t show is the still shots, the money shots on Instagram by various guys participating that day, bloody mouth’s pulled wide open, totally dry-beached, practically sitting on them…. A savvy reporter found these same photos and reported them to the FWC. Then, a few days later on the same beach, dead hammerheads were reported washed ashore.

It’s crap like this that pisses me off. You’d think these so called “pros” would have enough common sense to cool it, especially when the heat is on for the very sharks that they are targeting. One may think a video is genuine, popular and so humble and so perfectly righteous but little do they know just how fake they really are…total BS full of lies for the sake of the glory or the ratings or the followers…..

Things like this are precisely what have turned social media (places like YouTube) into total illusion….very destructible in the wrong hands. Just remember that true life is true life but with the swift hand of mankind “editing” brings about a sort of commanding force that is easier done than said.  

 

This is what I was trying to get at. For every picture or video, there is usually a slew of behind the scenes action that nobody takes into consideration except the guys that witness it. Just as this thread started making an example of Josh being a stuart, when I have only seen otherwise so will be vocal about it. I respect Kilsong very much, but was the first to inform him that posting pictures (was a picture of Josh and Dennis V with a goliath on the beach) can have major implications on their reputations. Then the negative comments poured in after proving my point. All this goes on before the followers come out unprepared. Uneducated just see the big fish and the location, and come out to attempt catching one. That for me is much different than someone who comes out and learns hands on, not on the internet, and already knows what they are getting into. Watching a newbie try to subdue a large bull in the surf or a large goliath is quite comical and also disturbing to me.

 

On this subject social media has had a huge effect and have witnessed it first hand, which is why guidelines need to be implemented and popular individuals in the scene have to take notice and modify their videos and such to help correct the problem they are partly to blame for for things to get any better.

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20 hours ago, dennysnook said:

 

This is what I was trying to get at. For every picture or video, there is usually a slew of behind the scenes action that nobody takes into consideration except the guys that witness it. Just as this thread started making an example of Josh being a stuart, when I have only seen otherwise so will be vocal about it. I respect Kilsong very much, but was the first to inform him that posting pictures (was a picture of Josh and Dennis V with a goliath on the beach) can have major implications on their reputations. Then the negative comments poured in after proving my point. All this goes on before the followers come out unprepared. Uneducated just see the big fish and the location, and come out to attempt catching one. That for me is much different than someone who comes out and learns hands on, not on the internet, and already knows what they are getting into. Watching a newbie try to subdue a large bull in the surf or a large goliath is quite comical and also disturbing to me.

 

On this subject social media has had a huge effect and have witnessed it first hand, which is why guidelines need to be implemented and popular individuals in the scene have to take notice and modify their videos and such to help correct the problem they are partly to blame for for things to get any better.

 

I get where you’re coming from, sure do, but social media (videos, forums, and pictorials) are only going to get bigger and bigger, popular and even more popular, with a whole influx of inexperienced people jumping on the band wagon.  Heck, if I was up and coming, I’d jump on that band wagon, too! There’s a seven year old tuber who made eleven million dollars last year reviewing toys!  Who can beat that? It’s a hell of a way to make a dream living and has certainly paid off for many, many people. No wonder it’s attracting all types.

As far as fishing is concerned, it has its place and many videos or presentations are exceptional in content. Few, though, are ragged and cause major problem as mentioned. Lot of these people who produce these things may or may not even recognize or anticipate outcomes. Perhaps they’re excited or purged with enthusiasm else totally focused and miss the forest for the trees. By then it’s too late and the damage is already done.

That’s because these people aren’t skilled producers or skilled at what they do. They toss the dice and hope for the best. And in the case of the fishing world as experienced onlookers, we suffer the consequences and have to clean up the mess to set things straight. That’s about all we can really do as “active participants”… at this point.

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