ksong Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 I found some buy the rods for better warranty and some buy the rods for better quality. This is America We are pretty optimistic based on the responses we get from anglers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianBM Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 Well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennysnook Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 13 mins ago, Romer Treece said: Denny, I think you answered your own question further up in your post...they offer the replacement at a lower cost as a courtesy. I can't say for sure because I don't work for St. Croix...but that's how it comes across to me. Was just making example of that to show that the loss occurred for warranty misuse is essentially built into the retail price. I like the idea of companies offering a reduced replacement cost with proof of purchase or an additional insurance policy. Don't like that St. Croix sets the bar for replacements and sets themselves up for abuse and are used as an example for what companies should do. Know of atleast two top sections of Legends that were purchased just to be stripped because the guides are $250 retail or more. Seen rods broken over knees and abused just because they new they are covered. Imo the majority of such claims are neglect and abuse. Big companies like Croix with a large profit margin and huge market overall can get away offering this hiding the loss in the initial costs. A small company that has much higher production and shipping costs would most likely be out of business because they can't make it up in sales volume like a company like St. Croix can, which is why I stated that expected this is ludacris unless you want even higher initial costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhawk19 Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 2 hours ago, gdc23 said: I currently have a warranty issue with ODM on a broken Frontier X. The rod has been well cared for with no nicks in the finish and besides the break could pass for as new condition. I called Steve at ODM and was told the rod was under warranty however it must have been an accidental breakage due to the fact that I have had it for a while and it would have broken during its first few uses if it was a manufacturers defect.(He determined all this just from a phone call, never looked at the rod) I explained the rod definately was not high sticked and broke on a fish at the canal that was well down current, he just wouldnt listen. I was at the canal last week and saw 3 rods explode. All 3 were user error. A lot of guys don’t even notice they are twisting the rod to the left or right in the raging current or putting an acute angle on the tip trying to land a fish. I cringed a number of times at what I saw guys doing while hooked up to big fish in heavy current. Has been said before, if there was a manufacturer defect it would show fairly early in usage. How old is the rod? How tight was your drag? Locking up the drag or cupping the spool can be disastrous in that current. From what I heard ODM is good with their warranty if a rod breaks within the warranty period. The smaller rod companies could not afford to have the same policies as St. Croix. First they are working on much smaller volumes and their profit margins are much tighter. Second, they are trying to give the best prices to the customer. A company like St Croix adds cost to each rod to cover these policies. Why should I as a customer have to pay for others mistakes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdc23 Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 7 mins ago, redhawk19 said: I was at the canal last week and saw 3 rods explode. All 3 were user error. A lot of guys don’t even notice they are twisting the rod to the left or right in the raging current or putting an acute angle on the tip trying to land a fish. I cringed a number of times at what I saw guys doing while hooked up to big fish in heavy current. Has been said before, if there was a manufacturer defect it would show fairly early in usage. How old is the rod? How tight was your drag? Locking up the drag or cupping the spool can be disastrous in that current. From what I heard ODM is good with their warranty if a rod breaks within the warranty period. The smaller rod companies could not afford to have the same policies as St. Croix. First they are working on much smaller volumes and their profit margins are much tighter. Second, they are trying to give the best prices to the customer. A company like St Croix adds cost to each rod to cover these policies. Why should I as a customer have to pay for others mistakes? Redhawk19 I was using the rod properly, probably was under more strain than previous uses due to the faster current but these rods are represented as being able to handle these conditions as they promote themselves heavily at the canal. You mention St Croix adding cost to each rod, Im sure there is added cost in a $510 Frontier X. I understand the small company situation as every time ODM grants a warranty replacement it comes directly out of Steves pocket, but thats business. You make a case for canal fisherman to purchase St Croix due to the better warranty where they will be used under some of the toughest conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levari Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 36 mins ago, redhawk19 said: I was at the canal last week and saw 3 rods explode. All 3 were user error. A lot of guys don’t even notice they are twisting the rod to the left or right in the raging current or putting an acute angle on the tip trying to land a fish. I cringed a number of times at what I saw guys doing while hooked up to big fish in heavy current. Has been said before, if there was a manufacturer defect it would show fairly early in usage. How old is the rod? How tight was your drag? Locking up the drag or cupping the spool can be disastrous in that current. From what I heard ODM is good with their warranty if a rod breaks within the warranty period. The smaller rod companies could not afford to have the same policies as St. Croix. First they are working on much smaller volumes and their profit margins are much tighter. Second, they are trying to give the best prices to the customer. A company like St Croix adds cost to each rod to cover these policies. Why should I as a customer have to pay for others mistakes? I don’t think the profit margin per rod of a small company like ODM producing blanks in China is much tighter than a large company like StCroix building complete rods in US. The quantity makes the difference and as such a company selling high quantity can afford to sell top section for $60. Edited July 18, 2018 by levari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimS Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Romer Treece said: St. Croix's bonafide "warranty" is STILL better than most...certainly in the case of the original poster who inquired about ODM and BH. St. Croix has a lifetime warranty on their equivalently priced model, the Legend (along with some other models)...ODM and BH do not, as they are each 1 year. Newsflash - if you break a rod that you use after 365 days it was NOT a manufacturer defect That's the point that folks are missing. If you fold up the top 10" of a rod high sticking - and it was 1 month old or 5 years old - not a defect. If you send your high sticking folded up rod to St. Croix and tell them it's under warranty because it's a Legend and it's only 5 years old - guess what? They very likely aren't going to give you a warranty replacement rod...just like ODM and Black Hole aren't going to give you a warranty replacement on a five year old rod. My guess is they would tell you it's user error - and their argument would be, very accurately, that you used the rod for 5 years, if it was a manufacturing defect it would have broke before the first year was up. But they have a plan - give people an option to just buy a replacement cheaper as a 'program' - it's very smart, I give them props Takes the sting out of people doing stupid stuff with their expensive rods...and it allows them not to have to tell people "tough luck" when they send in their 5 year old rod with a tip they folded up high sticking asking for a warranty replacement...it's ingenious So no matter how many years or decades someone says their warranty covers I'd be astonished if they replaced many rods more than 1 year old for free. When rods break after the first year the user damaged it or misused it...I'm gonna say very, very close to 100% of the time. Having a million year warranty would be a nice touch...wouldn't matter, anything over a year old should be instantly declined for warranty replacement. When I start a rod company I'm offering a million year warranty on manufacturing defects TimS Show someone how to catch striped bass and they'll be ready to fish anywhere. Show someone where to go striped bass fishing and you'll have a desperate report chaser with loose lips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhawk19 Posted July 18, 2018 Report Share Posted July 18, 2018 24 mins ago, gdc23 said: Redhawk19 I was using the rod properly, probably was under more strain than previous uses due to the faster current but these rods are represented as being able to handle these conditions as they promote themselves heavily at the canal. You mention St Croix adding cost to each rod, Im sure there is added cost in a $510 Frontier X. I understand the small company situation as every time ODM grants a warranty replacement it comes directly out of Steves pocket, but thats business. You make a case for canal fisherman to purchase St Croix due to the better warranty where they will be used under some of the toughest conditions. Always something a fisherman can think about. I see them using and breaking the TFO blue rods and because of the replacement warranty, Guys break them and run to Red Top for replacement. To each their own. You say that’s business on a warranty claim and it should be on a manufacturer defect. How old is the rod and why would ODM be held accountable if the rod is out of warranty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODM Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, gdc23 said: I am currently going through a warranty claim with ODM on a broken Frontier X, Steve at the moment appears to not be standing by the warranty. I will report with a new post the full story once this is resolved. 5 hours ago, gdc23 said: I currently have a warranty issue with ODM on a broken Frontier X. The rod has been well cared for with no nicks in the finish and besides the break could pass for as new condition. I called Steve at ODM and was told the rod was under warranty however it must have been an accidental breakage due to the fact that I have had it for a while and it would have broken during its first few uses if it was a manufacturers defect.(He determined all this just from a phone call, never looked at the rod) I explained the rod definately was not high sticked and broke on a fish at the canal that was well down current, he just wouldnt listen. Dear GDC23, First, may I get your name since you happen to call my name. So I have the right person. Thank you in advance for responding. Currently we only have one Frontier X claim which we are working on with an origination date of july 12 th 2018. Please disregard of this does not pertain to your case: 1. At ODM, (To be technical) full limited warranty only applies to rods purchased through ODM authorize dealers listed on our website. This warranty is non-transferable, and it is the responsibility of the original owner/purchaser to retain and provide the original sales receipt or proof of purchase. However, we do make an exception on special circumstances… which we only had to do one time to date. We are not here (like many great companies out there) to do dis-honest business. Just trying to contribute positively to the industry and fishing community and same time to make a honest business. 2. This particular rod was a donation to (*a 2017 event) as grand prize. Of course, we did warranty the winner (original owner) from the date of winning (June 26, 2017) 3. On July 4th 2017, 2nd owner (GDC23 who purchased the rod from the winner at SOL) reached out to us if we would honor the warranty on this particular rod. Trying to be helpful, we approved the warranty if there was going to be a manufacture defects and warranty will still start from original date of June 26th, 2017. He knows this very well. Which is not our official promised policy. 4. On July 12th 2018, we received an email with phone conversation, stating that same morning top of tip section broke. Based on the picture provided by the 2nd owner, it seems approx. 10”-12” from the tip guide was broken. See pic attached pic. He had this rod for almost a year as a 2nd owner and to break a top section from the tip guide approx. within 12” with cupping the spool as he told me, I concluded it was not a manufacture defect. 5. Please bear in mind to be technically correct, its officially out of warranty. It has been more than a year from original start date of June 26th 2017. He knows this very well. 6. I thought I was being helpful by giving him some discount and including free shipping to ease the pain. Normally I would not entertain or get into this debate. However, since my name was mentioned or calledout, I felt factual information needed to be told. I do not want to play he say she say, I can only go by facts which all these dates are officially documented. There are more info but I feel its unnecessary. And just get to the factual point. Note: As many of you know manufacture defects will manifest itself very quickly after few outings if not on several cast especially on very top tip section. This has been proved by us, other companies and many articles by publications in this industry. I just felt our story needed to be told. Thank you. -Steve Y. Edited July 19, 2018 by TimS I removed the specific site from your post as it is really irrelevant and we would rather not involve other sites in our discussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODM Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 "I removed the specific site from your post as it is really irrelevant and we would rather not involve other sites in our discussions" Dear Tims, Well noted. Yes. You are correct. My apology as I should have been more aware not to involve other sites. Excuse me for that oversight. - Steve Y. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimS Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 45 mins ago, ODM said: On July 4th 2017, 2nd owner (GDC23 who purchased the rod from the winner at SOL) reached out to us if we would honor the warranty on this particular rod. Trying to be helpful, we approved the warranty if there was going to be a manufacture defects and warranty will still start from original date of June 26th, 2017. He knows this very well. I appreciate your input on this as it really does help clarify this ‘warranty problem’. Sounds like the problem isn’t really a warranty problem at all but user error. The fact that it happened outside the one year warranty period shouldn’t even matter. When a rod breaks right where this one broke it is almost entirely certain it happened by putting too much of an angle on the rod under load. High sticking...even if it’s done to the side...same thing. Putting a load on the rod with the rod butt more than 90 degrees from the tip. Cupping the spool and leaning sideways into a fish running away in the canal...pretty hard to call that a warranty failure. Or a warranty issue. TimS Show someone how to catch striped bass and they'll be ready to fish anywhere. Show someone where to go striped bass fishing and you'll have a desperate report chaser with loose lips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimS Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 min ago, ODM said: "I removed the specific site from your post as it is really irrelevant and we would rather not involve other sites in our discussions" Dear Tims, Well noted. Yes. You are correct. My apology as I should have been more aware not to involve other sites. Excuse me for that oversight. - Steve Y. Steve - not a problem, it’s not a big deal, just a pet peeve of mine TimS Show someone how to catch striped bass and they'll be ready to fish anywhere. Show someone where to go striped bass fishing and you'll have a desperate report chaser with loose lips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODM Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 mins ago, TimS said: Steve - not a problem, it’s not a big deal, just a pet peeve of mine TimS Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levari Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 min ago, TimS said: I appreciate your input on this as it really does help clarify this ‘warranty problem’. Sounds like the problem isn’t really a warranty problem at all but user error. The fact that it happened outside the one year warranty period shouldn’t even matter. When a rod breaks right where this one broke it is almost entirely certain it happened by putting too much of an angle on the rod under load. High sticking...even if it’s done to the side...same thing. Putting a load on the rod with the rod butt more than 90 degrees from the tip. Cupping the spool and leaning sideways into a fish running away in the canal...pretty hard to call that a warranty failure. Or a warranty issue. TimS I think all of these companies should follow your idea and give two lifetime warranty since all breakage after a year are automatically user fault. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimS Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 Just now, levari said: I think all of these companies should follow your idea and give two lifetime warranty since all breakage after a year are automatically user fault. .. Have you ever owned a rod that broke after a year of normal use that you would consider a warranty failure? Me either TimS Show someone how to catch striped bass and they'll be ready to fish anywhere. Show someone where to go striped bass fishing and you'll have a desperate report chaser with loose lips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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