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ODM Frontier or Blackhole nano surf?

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St. Croix offers this service plan/insurance which is great for the consumer, but I take issue with guys saying how this reflects quality and how other companies need to follow suit. If St. Croix wants to offer replacement tops for $100 with $200 worth of guides as a courtesy then so be it, but like anything else in life usually you break you buy. It is ludacris to expect other companies to offer the same service when they are in business to make money. Basically by expecting this you feel you are entitled to a discount because you bought a rod that functioned perfectly fine until you abused it, now they owe you a discount. Well they don't but they follow that business model as a courtesy. I personally would rather pay less for a rod with an appropriate profit margin and have the option for a insurance plan than to pay for the service plan losses that are incurred across the board upfront, especially from misuse and misconduct. If a replacement cost is actually $75 why did I pay over $400 initially then?

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4 mins ago, dennysnook said:

It is ludacris to expect other companies to offer the same service when they are in business to make money. 

 

I don't disagree with your reasoning, but it's apparent from this and other threads that a portion of consumers do indeed expect other companies to follow suit. If St. Croix is coming out ahead with their service policy...and are not losing money...I don't see why other companies wouldn't consider something similar. At the end of the day, being "right" or even "reasonable" make no odds when it comes to purchasing decisions.

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7 mins ago, dennysnook said:

St. Croix offers this service plan/insurance which is great for the consumer, but I take issue with guys saying how this reflects quality and how other companies need to follow suit. If St. Croix wants to offer replacement tops for $100 with $200 worth of guides as a courtesy then so be it, but like anything else in life usually you break you buy. It is ludacris to expect other companies to offer the same service when they are in business to make money. Basically by expecting this you feel you are entitled to a discount because you bought a rod that functioned perfectly fine until you abused it, now they owe you a discount. Well they don't but they follow that business model as a courtesy. I personally would rather pay less for a rod with an appropriate profit margin and have the option for a insurance plan than to pay for the service plan losses that are incurred across the board upfront, especially from misuse and misconduct. If a replacement cost is actually $75 why did I pay over $400 initially then?

The only thing worse is originally paying $500+ and after a breakage paying $500+ again to replace the rod when the true replacement cost is $100

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1 hour ago, TimS said:

My only issue is that he's calling it a warranty....and if that's what St. Croix calls it then that's not even his fault. Sticking a rod in a fan is not a warranty, even if they replaced it for free - which they don't. A replacement policy is a much better word for it.

 

 

 

TimS

If you read my other posts you can see that sometimes I use the word warranty and other times service. On StCroix web site the warranty for manufacturer defect is the silver plan, Regardless, my point is not the language but the coverage. StCroix offers accidental coverage while others don't. I am not willing to spend another $500 on a fishing rod that I broke by accidents if I don't have to. That's the bottom line..

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59 mins ago, TimS said:

Sorry, you completely lost me - where did I suggest anyone would slam their functional rod and pay $100 to replace it? And where did I say anything about 'scam bags'? Generally I can figure out what you are saying...this isn't one of those times :)

 

TimS

It wasn't you who suggested that. Other people in this thread and other thread were talking about a free ride for used rods.. I only drink in the evening when I am not fishing.. :)

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39 mins ago, dennysnook said:

St. Croix offers this service plan/insurance which is great for the consumer, but I take issue with guys saying how this reflects quality and how other companies need to follow suit. If St. Croix wants to offer replacement tops for $100 with $200 worth of guides as a courtesy then so be it, but like anything else in life usually you break you buy. It is ludacris to expect other companies to offer the same service when they are in business to make money. Basically by expecting this you feel you are entitled to a discount because you bought a rod that functioned perfectly fine until you abused it, now they owe you a discount. Well they don't but they follow that business model as a courtesy. I personally would rather pay less for a rod with an appropriate profit margin and have the option for a insurance plan than to pay for the service plan losses that are incurred across the board upfront, especially from misuse and misconduct. If a replacement cost is actually $75 why did I pay over $400 initially then?

The intrinsic value of a fishing rod is virtually zero for St Croix.  Their large scale allows for this.  Whereas Blackhole's small scale does not allow for this. That's why St. Croix  can "give" rods to existing customers with broken rods for $100. And BH cannot.  That $100 is nearly all profit for St. Croix.. They love it when you break rods and use their Gold Star Plan. Customers think they are getting a fair deal and they are laughing all the way to the bank.

 

Their expenses lie in Marketing, R&D, real estate, taxes, legal and payroll (not the rods themselves). They likely have already accounted for these expenses when you bought the rod initially for $400.  Scale matters.

Edited by Cpalms
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15 mins ago, levari said:

Regardless, my point is not the language but the coverage. StCroix offers accidental coverage while others don't.

Fair enough...but to call it a 'warranty' and demand other companies should have the same 'warranty' is, as I said before, unintentionally incorrect. It's not a warranty at all, but a paid for program. The language, while you don't believe is the point, is incredibly important and very relevant. It's like saying my new car has such a great 'warranty' that I can crash it into a tree and they'll give me a new one...I just gotta pay $9,000 and they'll 'warranty' it...and I wouldn't buy a car from a company that doesn't have that 'warranty'. Except, it's not a warranty...it has nothing to do with manufacturer's defects...it's a paid for replacement program.

 

To dismiss the important distinction between 'warranty' and 'paid program' with "regardless" doesn't seem fair :)

 

TimS

Show someone how to catch striped bass and they'll be ready to fish anywhere.
Show someone where to go striped bass fishing and you'll have a desperate report chaser with loose lips.

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20 mins ago, levari said:

It wasn't you who suggested that. Other people in this thread and other thread were talking about a free ride for used rods.. I only drink in the evening when I am not fishing.. :)

Fair enough...I thought you quoted me in that post or I wouldn't have wondered what ya meant :)

 

TimS

Show someone how to catch striped bass and they'll be ready to fish anywhere.
Show someone where to go striped bass fishing and you'll have a desperate report chaser with loose lips.

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33 mins ago, levari said:

If you read my other posts you can see that sometimes I use the word warranty and other times service. On StCroix web site the warranty for manufacturer defect is the silver plan..

I just read their silver plan:

 



If your rod was damaged due to faulty workmanship, then of course we will cover the cost of the repair or replacement during the warranty period. However, if evidence indicates that the damage is due to an accident, normal wear or neglect, then we’ll advise you of the additional cost to repair or replace your rod.
  • 1. Return your damaged rod to St. Croix with a note explaining the problem.
  • 2. Include a check for $20*, the note and your rod. We suggest using our Discount Shipping Program to save money.

*The $20 S&H charge applies to shipments within the continental USA. The S&H charge for shipments to Canada is $30 U.S. Additional Long Rod surcharges if applicable may apply. Contact St. Croix for S&H charges for shipments to Alaska, Hawaii, U.S. Territories or all other countries and or Long Rod surcharges. The S&H charge for international orders must be paid by credit card (VISA, MC, American Express, Discover).

Maybe I'm reading this wrong - does the owner have to pay for shipping even if was a manufacturer defect? If I buy a 1 piece surf rod - and it blows up on the first cast - do I have to pay a 'long rod surcharge' for St. Croix to replace the defective rod under warranty? Any idea what would that long rod surcharge be a on 10' one piece rod?

 

TimS

 

Show someone how to catch striped bass and they'll be ready to fish anywhere.
Show someone where to go striped bass fishing and you'll have a desperate report chaser with loose lips.

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26 mins ago, TimS said:

Fair enough...but to call it a 'warranty' and demand other companies should have the same 'warranty' is, as I said before, unintentionally incorrect. It's not a warranty at all, but a paid for program. The language, while you don't believe is the point, is incredibly important and very relevant. It's like saying my new car has such a great 'warranty' that I can crash it into a tree and they'll give me a new one...I just gotta pay $9,000 and they'll 'warranty' it...and I wouldn't buy a car from a company that doesn't have that 'warranty'. Except, it's not a warranty...it has nothing to do with manufacturer's defects...it's a paid for replacement program.

 

To dismiss the important distinction between 'warranty' and 'paid program' with "regardless" doesn't seem fair :)

 

TimS

St. Croix's bonafide "warranty" is STILL better than most...certainly in the case of the original poster who inquired about ODM and BH. St. Croix has a lifetime warranty on their equivalently priced model, the Legend (along with some other models)...ODM and BH do not, as they are each 1 year. The difference of 1 year or lifetime (in terms of a warranty) may not make much of a difference to some people, but to others, the security of "lifetime" does. To each his own. The addition of the St. Croix customer service plans to either buy new tops or even upgrade to a higher priced model, is just icing on the cake to it's customers.  

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7 mins ago, TimS said:

I just read their silver plan:

 

 

 

They don’t make long 1 pc rod any more so nothing to worry about. ...If it is a factory defect I bet they won’t charge you the $20. I think the language they use is from the past when they were making 1 PC rods.

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1 hour ago, dennysnook said:

St. Croix offers this service plan/insurance which is great for the consumer, but I take issue with guys saying how this reflects quality and how other companies need to follow suit. If St. Croix wants to offer replacement tops for $100 with $200 worth of guides as a courtesy then so be it, but like anything else in life usually you break you buy. It is ludacris to expect other companies to offer the same service when they are in business to make money. Basically by expecting this you feel you are entitled to a discount because you bought a rod that functioned perfectly fine until you abused it, now they owe you a discount. Well they don't but they follow that business model as a courtesy. I personally would rather pay less for a rod with an appropriate profit margin and have the option for a insurance plan than to pay for the service plan losses that are incurred across the board upfront, especially from misuse and misconduct. If a replacement cost is actually $75 why did I pay over $400 initially then?

Denny, I think you answered your own question further up in your post...they offer the replacement at a lower cost as a courtesy. I can't say for sure because I don't work for St. Croix...but that's how it comes across to me.

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8 mins ago, levari said:

They don’t make long 1 pc rod any more so nothing to worry about. ...If it is a factory defect I bet they won’t charge you the $20. I think the language they use is from the past when they were making 1 PC rods.

Gotcha, thanks. I still prefer one piece surf rods.

 

Also, how did you manage to take a thread titled "ODM or Black Hole" and make it about St. Croix? :squid:

 

TimS

Show someone how to catch striped bass and they'll be ready to fish anywhere.
Show someone where to go striped bass fishing and you'll have a desperate report chaser with loose lips.

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10 mins ago, TimS said:

Gotcha, thanks. I still prefer one piece surf rods.

 

Also, how did you manage to take a thread titled "ODM or Black Hole" and make it about St. Croix? :squid:

 

TimS

I am good at it.. :)

 

 

The OP started the StCroix warranty discussion in post #9 and continue in #15. The rest is history.. His friend purchased the ODM and caught a big fish..

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