Theflyguy

Two hand rods for the salt

231 posts in this topic

My primary rod for a long time has been the 11' CND Atlantis/Oceana; it seems to work best with lines in the 520-550 g range.   I prefer shorter THs.  I also use lighter rods at times, including a Beulah 9wt surf rod (the original, cheaper, version) and a Beulah 7/8 switch which is 10.5 ft.  My ideal rod would be a 10'+ change Atlantis and one of my One-of-These-Days projects is to build one from a spare. 

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Some people are saying two hand rods are just an expensive way to avoid having to develop a decent double haul. But I have to wonder if that's true? Can't you cast bigger flies with them and farther?

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1 hour ago, Otshawytsha said:

Some people are saying two hand rods are just an expensive way to avoid having to develop a decent double haul. But I have to wonder if that's true? Can't you cast bigger flies with them and farther?

Haul can roughly double the line energy but it comes from increased line speed but line speed alone is not good because wind resistance increase to square. TH rod efficiency comes when we can cast heavy line without tiring ourself.

 

I need to TH cast 1.5 times heavier line to achieve about the same performance I achieve using double haul casting with SH rod. A 400gr line is max weight I comfortably like to SH cast using 9ft rod and last time I compared performances it did deliver small fly to head wind bit unbelievable good because line loop came narrow and very fast. But a 600gr line using TH rod was better when fly was big because heavy line keep its momentum longer. Also when casting to tail wind because longer rod length allows casting to higher trajectory. Some influence here is that I believe I am better SH caster than TH caster so perhaps heavier line need for average is only 1.4 times or even less and it is when used TH rod is long because inceased rod length can incease line speed and definitely when SH casting and hauling is not good.

 

Then when needed I can TH cast 700gr or even 800gr line heads and it is not too hard and performance comes much better than SH setup.

 

Esa

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9 hours ago, RedGreen said:

Mike Oliver has worked for many many years to develop his own line of TH rod blanks which he uses exclusively. To be talking about his kit in detail would be to a degree "selling" his product on a part of the forum where selling products is not allowed.

 

Mike please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's the facts.

It is correct.

 

Mike

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3 hours ago, Otshawytsha said:

Some people are saying two hand rods are just an expensive way to avoid having to develop a decent double haul. But I have to wonder if that's true? Can't you cast bigger flies with them and farther?

Yes

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8 hours ago, DrBob said:

So I'm a big TH guy swinging flies for anadromous fishies, scandi touch n go and skagit waterborne when needed.  Are you guys overhead casting with these?  I can't image trying to get a nice water kiss with incoming surf.  I've always been a SH guy for that stuff.

Yes we are. If you are fishing a biggish surf the place you want your line when casting is into the air as soon as possible. Skagit can take too long to set up and the already sunken anchor gets drowned by a wave .Oft times it is handy to keep your line in the air as you time a cast over an oncoming wave.

An open ocean beach with surf is a very fast envoirament. We need fast hands and a rod that can move line quickly from the water. 

Fast flexible tips are not good in the surf. We want the rod to move the line not bend to it.

Once you get into breaking surf and a wave is bearing down on you all will become very clear.

 

Rods that are great for Spey air borne and Skagit water borne anchored mostly are not great for over head in an open beach situation.

 

River mouths, inlets and anywhere where space behind the caster is very limited is where Spey designed rods score very well.

 

Mike

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3 hours ago, Otshawytsha said:

Some people are saying two hand rods are just an expensive way to avoid having to develop a decent double haul. But I have to wonder if that's true? Can't you cast bigger flies with them and farther?

You can buy TH rods for less than half the price of a high end single hand rod.

 

Mike

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10 hours ago, jjp5 said:

I have tried my sage one 7126 in the surf and it never felt right. I tried several lines and never got it dialed in.  It is amazing for skagit. I know lots of people that use switch rods and they seem great. I broke down and got an opal 7/8  just for the surf. My guess is a switch or true surf/beach rod are the way to go. 

Switch rods were never designed for the surf. They are just about the worst option. Give me a decent 9 foot 10 wt  single hand rod over a switch rod any day of the week. Any sort of wind and I found them to be hopeless.

 

Mike

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9 hours ago, Theflyguy said:

Sounds interesting. Maybe mike if you could pm me would that be against the rules ? I live in Maine and don’t know a lot of two hand guys except the guy that got me into it Alan. 

Alan it is. I will pm you my email address.

 

Mike

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TFG- you seem to be doing OK from what I see.  I have used the straight T14 off the lazr line for the past two nights casting overhead- it does get out there.  Wind in the face is still a problem.  I think for a lot of our fishing in Maine, your set up and mine are pretty versatile.  If the wind is down tonight, I'm going to try the new 7 wt. ( maybe- hopefully all the little kids will stay home and I can fish the crab).  BTW- the white striper bugger works.-good call.   

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4 hours ago, titleguy said:

TFG- you seem to be doing OK from what I see.  I have used the straight T14 off the lazr line for the past two nights casting overhead- it does get out there.  Wind in the face is still a problem.  I think for a lot of our fishing in Maine, your set up and mine are pretty versatile.  If the wind is down tonight, I'm going to try the new 7 wt. ( maybe- hopefully all the little kids will stay home and I can fish the crab).  BTW- the white striper bugger works.-good call.   

Thanks I am trying my best to perfect things. I have got some on the white version also a all black version has worked great at the flat we have talked about south of the location I normally see you at. The set up you have been using is a 9 wt isn’t it? You think that does better on the windy days then my set up? I have been trying some flies with craft fur lately and am really liking them

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25 mins ago, Theflyguy said:

Thanks I am trying my best to perfect things. I have got some on the white version also a all black version has worked great at the flat we have talked about south of the location I normally see you at. The set up you have been using is a 9 wt isn’t it? You think that does better on the windy days then my set up? I have been trying some flies with craft fur lately and am really liking them

7DD49C00-21DD-4F48-97A4-C65775A7E5F8.thumb.jpeg.cce25ba91ac1c7f70367614f7baa7ea8.jpeg

I was cranking some casts last  night and Tuesday night.  Right into the face inside did not work that well as you can't get "under" the wind.  Definitely a fine line getting that 30' of T14 to turn over properly and consistently.  I was getting a tailing loop last night so I slowed down my release and that helped.  I'm hoping to see a little more action tonight.

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1 hour ago, titleguy said:

I was cranking some casts last  night and Tuesday night.  Right into the face inside did not work that well as you can't get "under" the wind.  Definitely a fine line getting that 30' of T14 to turn over properly and consistently.  I was getting a tailing loop last night so I slowed down my release and that helped.  I'm hoping to see a little more action tonight.

Remember to not let the tip of rod track at end of cast such that it crosses over the ideal "straight line backward to forward" on a left to right direction or right to left. I.e. don't let your casting hand rotate toward your line hand lest your line crosses over itself, tailing the loop

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1 hour ago, Otshawytsha said:

Remember to not let the tip of rod track at end of cast such that it crosses over the ideal "straight line backward to forward" on a left to right direction or right to left. I.e. don't let your casting hand rotate toward your line hand lest your line crosses over itself, tailing the loop

I kind of figured that out last night- easier said than done however....My casting

 

2 hours ago, titleguy said:

I was cranking some casts last  night and Tuesday night.  Right into the face inside did not work that well as you can't get "under" the wind.  Definitely a fine line getting that 30' of T14 to turn over properly and consistently.  I was getting a tailing loop last night so I slowed down my release and that helped.  I'm hoping to see a little more action tonight.

does that naturally- old and bad habits die hard....

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5 hours ago, titleguy said:

I was cranking some casts last  night and Tuesday night.  Right into the face inside did not work that well as you can't get "under" the wind.  Definitely a fine line getting that 30' of T14 to turn over properly and consistently.  I was getting a tailing loop last night so I slowed down my release and that helped.  I'm hoping to see a little more action tonight.

This is a good cast for the set up 

 

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