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Biomass vs beach replenishment argument from the June reports thread

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555jkeegs

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On ‎6‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 1:15 PM, jps1010 said:

I wouldn't necessarily blame the beach replenishment on the poor fishing.  I'm sure it doesn't help but I don't think that is the problem.  I fished the SS of Long Island and haven't had any beach replenishment done but yet its been pretty terrible by me for the past few years, last year being the worst I can remember since the 80s.

Maybe, as Sudsy said from what his friends see, the larger body of fish stay off shore and feed while moving North.  I subscribe to the theory that replenishment kills the food supply so the fish find their nourishment elsewhere.  Elsewhere currently exists beyond the 3 mile line where rec boat guys cant touch em.  There is a reason Stripers are called Rockfish south of NJ.  Bury all the rocks and this is what we get. 

I boat fish, I saw bunker this month, not as much as years past and also not a lot of fish on em.  On the other hand from land I had my best Spring that I can recall.  Both in terms of quantity and quality.  While wading I was enveloped by massive pods of bunker on more than one occasion as they fled for their lives.  None of this was on the beach however. 

Going back to 2017 my area experienced a body of YOY fish so large that it defied logic.  Scientists were dedicating time for research to determine why there was such a large body of young fish in this region. I am not aware of any conclusions as of yet. The assumption was this body broke off from one of the main tribes of fish, Hudson or Delaware, but they couldn't figure for what reason.  One thought was that one of the tribes had an extremely large YOY class. The thinking is the normal grounds could not sustain a class this big forcing out a large body to ensure survival. 

Replenishment has taken a big toll on surf fishing for reasons already mentioned.  Surf anglers need to adjust. Its certainly not going to do you any good to say, this is where I fish, and stand there stubbornly casting out into a dessert. 

"I was a waste of time dumbasses"  Sevenxseventy1

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19 mins ago, fishless said:

Maybe, as Sudsy said from what his friends see, the larger body of fish stay off shore and feed while moving North.  I subscribe to the theory that replenishment kills the food supply so the fish find their nourishment elsewhere.  Elsewhere currently exists beyond the 3 mile line where rec boat guys cant touch em.  There is a reason Stripers are called Rockfish south of NJ.  Bury all the rocks and this is what we get. 

I boat fish, I saw bunker this month, not as much as years past and also not a lot of fish on em.  On the other hand from land I had my best Spring that I can recall.  Both in terms of quantity and quality.  While wading I was enveloped by massive pods of bunker on more than one occasion as they fled for their lives.  None of this was on the beach however. 

Going back to 2017 my area experienced a body of YOY fish so large that it defied logic.  Scientists were dedicating time for research to determine why there was such a large body of young fish in this region. I am not aware of any conclusions as of yet. The assumption was this body broke off from one of the main tribes of fish, Hudson or Delaware, but they couldn't figure for what reason.  One thought was that one of the tribes had an extremely large YOY class. The thinking is the normal grounds could not sustain a class this big forcing out a large body to ensure survival. 

Replenishment has taken a big toll on surf fishing for reasons already mentioned.  Surf anglers need to adjust. Its certainly not going to do you any good to say, this is where I fish, and stand there stubbornly casting out into a dessert. 

I do not believe helping people catch more fish is the issue here. The issue is we should stand together. Make your vote count. Spread the word, and share Art's video to inform the uninformed.

 

I believe this is the tip of the iceberg. Destroying the ecosystem of our shore will play a bigger role than the route our Stripers take. Not being able to hug the rocks, and our structured shores will have a mortality effect on them for sure, in the open waters. Where they now become prey. (that's the least of our problems) But killing off the inshore ecosystem will create the dead sea, a impact on sea life that has not been realized yet.

Lou T

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9 mins ago, Lou T said:

But killing off the inshore ecosystem will create the dead sea, a impact on sea life that has not been realized yet.

Lou T

I would argue that the ecosystem is alfeady killed off Lou.  But i am not saying we should not try to do something to bring it back. 

"I was a waste of time dumbasses"  Sevenxseventy1

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6 mins ago, fishless said:

I would argue that the ecosystem is alfeady killed off Lou.  But i am not saying we should not try to do something to bring it back. 

Image result for sad gif

I was thinking of going on a fluke trip soon. July is right around the corner. So I checked out the reports. The Big Mohawk has not made a trip yet that I'm aware of...Related image

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There has been an issue with overfishing of Stripers for at least 370 years.

 

"Early settlers instituted what may have been one of the first conservation laws in America when the Massachusetts Bay Colony declared in 1639 that striped bass were too valuable to be used as fertilizer." (Boatus*com) 

 

There have big swings of recorded catches over the past 200+ years. 

 

Booms and busts existed before beach replenishment. Combine shore destruction with natural swings of the striper population and things can get out of control.....In the past people used lobster tails as striper bait. Good luck finding lobsters in the Jersey surf, let alone a starfish....

 

Bunker -menhaden- are kinda back, now, though. Whales and seals know it....i suppose sharks as well. 

 

One day, about a month ago, i watched bulldozers push piles of sand (fake dunes) into the wrack zone.

 

 

It's both biomass and "replenishment." There is no versus.

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9 hours ago, Lou T said:

 

I was thinking of going on a fluke trip soon. July is right around the corner. So I checked out the reports. The Big Mohawk has not made a trip yet that I'm aware of...

Seabass is over on the 22nd, Chris will switch to fluke then (unless that bite totally dies then maybe a bit earlier)

I just wanta play everyday despite small nagging injuries --

and go home to a woman who appreciates how full of crap I truly am. ~ Crash Davis

 

Social Distancing since 1962

 

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5 hours ago, Sudsy said:

Seabass is over on the 22nd, Chris will switch to fluke then (unless that bite totally dies then maybe a bit earlier)

Thanks Jerry, I was worried desert storm covered the Shrewsbury Rocks too...:eek:

Lou

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Unfortunately, I really don't have much time to spend on this but I did glance at some of the responses and will provide my feedback.

 

Its obvious to me some of you haven't been fishing that long or at the very least, did not experience what some of us have in the 80s.  At that time, the early 80s were still pretty good, then things got really bad mid to late 80s and then things really start to look up in the early 90s.  Things started to improve only after a moratorium and stricter bag limits were implemented.  In short, what saved the fishery was they killed less Bass.  This is what we need to have happen here for all of us to enjoy a healthy fishery again.

 

But you know what, don't take my word for it.  Zeno, Bill Wetzel, Rich Troxler have said very similar things.  As a matter of fact, I remember back in 2010 give or take a similar discussion was being had on another website where Rich, myself and a few others were saying there were problems with the fishery and people jumped all over us for that saying we had no idea what we were talking but yet here we are now talking about the very poor fishing we have had in our local waters for some time now.

 

A lot of you are making this more complex than it really is.  If my computer doesn't work, 9 times out of 10 I reboot it and its fine.  I don't blame the BIOS, motherboard, circuits, hard drive, etc on the problem.  What I am saying its really a simple problem to fix.  Kill less fish. 

 

I'll try to illustrate my point before I have to jump off.  I live on a small private lake that is loaded with Carp.  Every single time I go down to my dock, there has to be around a dozen fish sunning themselves or swimming around looking for a meal.  Now if they were to open it up to the public and allow a lot of people to fish for them, I can guarantee I will not be seeing a dozen Carp next to my dock.  Depending how much pressure they put on it, I will probably see a third of the fish each time I go down to it.  This isn't any different from what happens in the ocean.  Guess what, those acres of fish you see offshore, you continue to take them and those big schools you seen now will disappear as they have on our local beaches.

 

Like I said before, I will say it again, the problem is simple, we kill too many fish which I believe most of you would agree on so I suggest each of  you contact the ASMFC, Governors, your state reps, etc. and express your concern.  That is the only way this will ever change.

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Wonder if lure only fishing would help the cause, and only two fish per charter per day no matter how many trips. And no stripers allowed on a party boat. Also, no umbrella rigs, with multiple hooks. Then in two years go back to normal. Just a small proposal. Also catch and release for all beach fisherman except for a few days throughout season.!

Edited by jeffapeikin
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I do believe there is heavy pressure put on the fishery.  I also believe replenishment is pushing the bodies of fish we currently have available to areas inaccessible to anglers wishing to target them.  What if this current trend of fish moving north out beyond the 3 mile line continues for a number of years?  I'm thinking the fishery can rebound to stronger numbers again simply by being in a place where none of us can target them.  And don't misread this into me advocating for replenishment because I am not.  While we try to get an audience with politicians and try to make them understand that replenishment is a flawed solution, we might be helping the fishery by accident.  It's almost like a positive in the midst of an enormous negative. 

"I was a waste of time dumbasses"  Sevenxseventy1

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There is no talking to this guy, been fishing for 40 years.  He's a true legend.  If he isn't seeing bass we must shut down the fishery because it's in trouble and nothing else has an effect on it.  The carp swimming around his dock (ironically a piece of structure) told him so.  

 

Delete from SOL_Users where username like 'wasy','Seal'....

 

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On 6/15/2018 at 7:53 AM, Lou T said:

Thanks Jerry, I was worried desert storm covered the Shrewsbury Rocks too...:eek:

Lou

It is filling in the parts nearer the beach

Remember what happened in '95, charter guys were screaming about the rocks filling in

I just wanta play everyday despite small nagging injuries --

and go home to a woman who appreciates how full of crap I truly am. ~ Crash Davis

 

Social Distancing since 1962

 

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23 hours ago, fishless said:

I do believe there is heavy pressure put on the fishery.  I also believe replenishment is pushing the bodies of fish we currently have available to areas inaccessible to anglers wishing to target them.  What if this current trend of fish moving north out beyond the 3 mile line continues for a number of years?  I'm thinking the fishery can rebound to stronger numbers again simply by being in a place where none of us can target them.  And don't misread this into me advocating for replenishment because I am not.  While we try to get an audience with politicians and try to make them understand that replenishment is a flawed solution, we might be helping the fishery by accident.  It's almost like a positive in the midst of an enormous negative. 

Possible silver lining

Until they pack into the CCC and get slaughtered

I just wanta play everyday despite small nagging injuries --

and go home to a woman who appreciates how full of crap I truly am. ~ Crash Davis

 

Social Distancing since 1962

 

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