JohnP

Going D O W N

49 posts in this topic

Used leadcore lines a lot in the past and the best one I found was the trolling line with a braided coating. More supple than the Cortland product and easy to splice. Still not nice stuff to cast but I never had any real problems with it just used a flyrod with some authority to it., mine was a converted carp rod. All of the various breaking strains have the same diameter lead core so get the lowest strain you can get away with they will be thinner and sink faster. Definitely use mono shooting line. No experience with Spey casting the stuff so will bow to Esa's superior knowledge on that one. Short leaders and weighted flies worked best for me.

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Posted (edited)

Fishing comfort on the full lines like Leviathans is unparalleled in my opinion. Leviathans and the SA Sonar sinkers are also nice enough to cast if need be. 400-500gr lines on 11-12wt rods are my basic set ups. I will also keep an 750gr on a 12wt from now on for dredging only with the heaviest fly available. That I will not be casting at all. I personally always adapt my technique to the prevailing conditions. You will get the best feel and contact to your fly if you make a short cast in to the wind and just snake out the whole line and start stripping when you get tight. This will get you depth and feel if the boat is not drifting too fast or the current ripping too hard. If the drift or current is faster I start to adjust my initial cast more down wind to give the line more sink time. At some point in very heavy currents the further you can cast down wind or up the current, the more deeper you will get. This how ever always brings the possibility of tangling the line and fly as you loose control of the sinking process. My experience tells me that in the long run a controlled sink and good feel to the fly will give me more bites then trying to get as much down as possible. I also think that most predatory fish in heavy current start to push the bait more towards the surface as bait will have a hard time keeping really deep if the current is ripping. If you don't have to cast far, you can always add weight to the leader to keep the fly more down in the current. Tungsten beads and coneheads work great for this.

Edited by jabster

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Hi

In Scotland I have just started  using an Airflo Depthfinder line - got it cheap off Amazon.This is a tungsten tipped line , comes in various sizes and in big game specs too ie with a larger core. I use one on my 8wt Greys fly rod ,it throws like a dream and sinks like a brick. I use it to fish for Pollack from the rocks . Having the faster sink rate lets me  get to the fish quicker and spend less time counting down for the retrieve. One of my favourite spots is in a narrows where a sea loch exits into a larger loch .Really strong current here when the tide floods or ebbs, looking forward to trying this line there. Ive caught big pollack on lures here and would love to have a crack with the fly.

 

Jim

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15 hours ago, JohnP said:

 

Sorta..

 

but ya get a few on the meat stick and then you think to yourself

 

’wonder If I can get em on the 10 weight...’

I enjoy fishing different gear types. In the boat, there's always some kind of light spin gear on board, for different situations. Here's a common situation in CCB or the East side of the Cape...I'm talking about flat water, not the rips or outflows. Ya find fish that are down 30-40', which is a setup for what I 've always called mooching. Even a fast sink tip works, you don't need a full sinking line to do it. Ya cast out there 50-60', and wait a minute or so to get it down. Then ya strip about 10-15', and if no strike, you shake the line back out, and keep repeating till you hook up. You're fighting big fish on a fly rod, but you're not really casting, so it's not the same to me as fishing for fish on top, or shallow subsurface. So I'd just as soon fish light spin with a jighead and plastics in that situation. It's just as sporting, if not more so.

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4 hours ago, albacized said:

I have the Rio InTouch sinking lines - both the 250 grain (for my 7 wt) and the 350 grain (for my 9 wt)...great lines and does exactly what I want. I can dredge the bottom while fishing the mouth of the merrimac, fish deep in the canal (in the few/limited locations where you have room to fly fish), southside (cape) outflows, etc....well behaved in terms of tangling

good to know - thanks. the DC does need updating. ;)

 

as to the ditch - I'd use a Skagit rod with an upstream perry poke cast now. I was taught that cast up in WA - even with 10ft of T-11 the fly line and fly is always in front of you. you can literally stand on the bank and shoot it 60 feet.

 

I used it last week in Ireland for Salmon. it works like a dream. I'm sure with practice I could get it to my usual double spey distance of 80ft.

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3 hours ago, Highlandsaltyfly said:

Hi

 .Really strong current here when the tide floods or ebbs, looking forward to trying this line there. Ive caught big pollack on lures here and would love to have a crack with the fly.

 

Jim

 

Jim - I've taken Pollack to 8lb off the rocks in Guernsey. their tides are up to 36ft !

 

as to inlets, I found the easiest fishing was a low or high tide when the tide was flat, or an hour each side as some of the currents were 4knts +

 

that first dive of a Pollack is something else. I always got them very close in but the sea bass would be at the edge of the white water.

 

cheers

Mark

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5 hours ago, tomkaz said:

Dumb question: you talking about casting from surf/rocks or from a boat? 

 

How does this answer help?

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Posted (edited)

50 mins ago, bonefishdick said:

 

How does this answer help?

ETA: Clearly I misread the OP so the following is moot for this inquiry. Apologies but I will leave it here anyway. 

.......

 

In our part of Florida, when live chum baits are not available or the fish will not look to the surface or subsurface, we need to get flies down to them on rock piles or over wrecks. Trying to attain depths of 30-50 feet depends on line diameter, line weight as well as current and wind direction.

 

Typical process is setting up up current or upwind of target bottom structure and letting line out until the entire weighted head is in the water with only a rod's length of the relatively short running line off the reel. As soon as the line goes taut, and all the slack is out, strip strip strip. Depending on the species and conditions, we might strip all the way up to the surface or just halfway back. 

 

There is no casting involved in this method which is why I asked about casting from land or fishing from a boat. To get down deepest and fast, we try to find the heaviest lines/heads possible that are tropical temperature tolerant and not stupid expensive. The possibility of having a 50+ amberjack suck down a large EatMe pattern and take you down into a jagged wreck makes using $100 lines difficult to justify. 

 

The captain that I do this with most has used and experimented with every commercially available line as well as hybrids he's constructed from spools of weighted shooting head material. One of the issues he's found with such material is that they are usually coated with something appropriate for steelhead conditions, not 90-100* F. 

 

Over the past couple of years he has worked with SciAngler on developing very heavy, heat tolerant, heads. Last time I did this with him we were using  a "special run" of relatively thin ~750-800 grain level line that SA had sent him for experimentation. One of the challenges they were trying to overcome was the tendency of a heavy line with a hard tropical grade coating to hold a coil, making a straight line presentation more challenging. "Striper" and "steelhead" type lines are useless here when the sun is out and it is hot. 

 

Anyway, that was why I asked. 

Edited by tomkaz

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Posted (edited)

For me, it's the Rio T-17 with  Frog Hair  58lb.  .024   shooting line.   A 30 foot  head  with my 10 wt.  casts OK .  Usually fishing a  dumbbell eyed 4/0 or 5/0.    There's a few spots off Cape Ann  and in the Merrimack I like to fish it and  at the end of the  the breachways in Rhody when the current is ripping.   

Edited by bloosfisher

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The original question was fishing 10 to 5 feet of water and how the line he uses tangles all the time, I think a couple of the answers including mine specifically addressed the question which I believe was the tangle issue and he wanted to know what other people use when fishing those conditions.

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On 6/12/2018 at 8:04 AM, JohnP said:

Who has tinkered with ways to get Down and stay down (I.e SINKING lines)

 

this means getting at least 10-15 feet in current

 

best way for me is still the LC 13 shooting head

 

i have the Rio Tungsten (I think that’s what it is called). The running line gets tangled every other cast 

I answered what  the OP asked. I think I'll move on from this forum. Happy fishing.

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15 mins ago, bonefishdick said:

The original question was fishing 10 to 5 feet of water and how the line he uses tangles all the time, I think a couple of the answers including mine specifically addressed the question which I believe was the tangle issue and he wanted to know what other people use when fishing those conditions.

My error, I seemed to have missed the point on the target depth. 

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John P -  Did you ever look at the Teeny lines?  he was the originator of the T material tipped line.  I used to use a 400gr Teeny on a 10 wt.  It would go down and I did not have tangle issues.  Perhaps you can stretch the line before use?  Or is twisted cast out and twirl your rod the opposite direction to untwist the line.  Twisted line is the source of many tangles.

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42 mins ago, tomkaz said:

 

 

There is no casting involved in this method which is why I asked about casting from land or fishing from a boat. To get down deepest and fast, we try to find the heaviest lines/heads possible that are tropical temperature tolerant and not stupid expensive. The possibility of having a 50+ amberjack suck down a large EatMe pattern and take you down into a jagged wreck makes using $100 lines difficult to justify. 

 

That's very sensible.

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I'll second Esa on this recommendation:

 

"SA has 30ft UST "grain" heads up to 850gr and they are tapered which should be better casting for strong DH rods but they are not cheap. When cutting lines shorter do not throw the line pieces away but loop them."

 

Not only are these heads tapered, but they are textured, which can help with water loading them; also some of them can be found relatively cheaply if you look around (I picked up two for $18 each).   The choice then is to find a running line that does not tangle in tropic or near tropic conditions.  I think that's the harder part of the question.  Most running lines are not made for tropical application specifically - this is a result of the fact that the DH casting (spey, skagit, etc...) methods originated for river fishing in northern climates.

 

In integrated lines, the Rio Leviathans are the way to go, IMO, but they are truly more expensive.

 

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