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Setting the Hook when Nymphing for Trout

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MaCe1

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41 mins ago, saltfisherman said:

Nymphing and not hooking setting, or should I say the fish not staying hooked is normal. A fish takes the nymph not by inhaling it but rather as a tasting it only approach. It only has the fly on its lips and just as quick drops it or will suck it in.  You will roll more fish than you ever will land, that’s part of the nymphing game. Keep at it and numbers can improve but it’s only because your reflexes have gotten quicker and the fish becomes hooked as it picks that fly up for a taste. 

 

Sometimes you will find over time that as you do more of the nymph fishing that an instinct of yours kicks in and you just know that fish picked up that fly. The reaction of the fish will show itself, could be as simple that you noticed a head shake or the mouth opened and closed. Set the hook and it’s there. A fish will flash it’s side, set the hook. Over time if you are using an indicator you will learn to not use one and just track the fly. You won’t se the fly but experience will show you the speed of the water and where the fly is in relation to it. From there the fish will show itself. It sounds zen like I guess, but time gets you there. 

 

When i say set the hook, not in the manner of the bass fisherman, just come taunt on the line. Doesn’t take much to penetrate the flesh of the trout.  

this.

 

nymphing for trout to me is like fishing for tog - big part of sucess is experience teaching you what to feel and when you are feeling it.  either way, the smaller the hook - its just gonna happen more.

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"I personally don't do barbless, I opt for Micro barbs, I find them very easy to remove and the Micro barb is just big enough to keep the hook from backing out on most occasions."

 

I am solidly with BFD on this issue.  Or, that the issue is most likely due to HOOK issues.

 

For all the talk about rod angles, for me I am way too aware that the thing I have LEAST control of is the angle the fish is to the fly, especially on the take.  And, the more line between myself and the fish, the LESS real difference there is how I hold the rod compared to the angle pulling way out there on the fish.  But then, my rivers in the NW make for long distances perhaps compared to eastern micro-streams.

 

In my experience I have run into situations in which I was dropping a LOT of fish......and the cause was ALWAYS the hook itself.  Fishing a river I had extensive experience on (the Deschutes) when I began pinching barbs I experienced a slight uptick in dropped fish.  OK, no big deal, why bother to pinch barbs, just tie on totally barbless hooks.  So I tied my flies on Mustad 94845 hooks (same size) as the 94840 I had been using.  That hook shank was spotless, featureless, slick.  Slid OUT just as easily a it slid IN.  Suddenly I couldn't buy a fish to hand.  The first evening on a 10 day float I (and two cohorts, a nephew and his buddy who were neohytes and not to be trusted to get dinner) went DINNERLESS because I dropped 12 out of 12.  That hook, for me, on that river, with those fish, was HORRIBLE. I eventually had to dig out some 94840 flies and when they were gone tie my way down river each night to stop the (lack of) carnage.  I kept trying, to see if it had been just a bad run of luck, but no, for day after day, those 94845 hooks dropped fish.  But a pinched barb......DIDN'T......to the same extent anyway.  Lesson 1 learned.  Made me a fan of microbarbs.....or pinched barbs instead of totally barbless hooks.

 

Same river/trout/scenario years later.  Mustad came out with LIGHT WIRE dry fly hooks.  Suddenly I was dropping twice as many fish as on the standard.  ALWAYS late in the fight, AFTER the long run into the backing downstream (16" hot fish, BIG, STRONG, DEEP river, 4-5X tippets) as I was pulling them back upstream against the current.  Barbed hooks, fly looked fine afterwards, but PING, PING, PING!  I finally realized that in that scenario that thin wire hook was simply cutting its way through whatever purchase it had with the constant, straightforward pull that combination of fish (done fighting, letting me pull it upcurrent, mouth wide open) and river set up for the end game.   Went back to larger wire hooks and it all returned to normal.

 

In general I believe.....smaller hooks demand lighter tippets.....to lessen the pull on 1) less flesh purchase AND 2) less tension causing the thinner wire to CUT through.  That makes for longer fights on big fish.....but that is where skill (and uncertainty = excitement) comes in.

 

Final thought. As a generality, the smaller the fly the longer the fish are likely to hold it in their mouths before spitting it out.  Lots things fish eat have hard, prickly surfaces, especially nymphs.  Especially bigger fish with smaller flies, I convinced myself that with #18 dries with big, 18-20" fish, I could take my time, say "God bless the queen", and then lift slowly to initate contact with the mogan.  And, with 7X tippets, that helped to lessen the initial reaction to the hook, which was usually more minor annoyance ( a definite POSITIVE with 7X) than explosive panic......unless the hook set in the tongue.

 

My suggestion to the OP.....change hooks.  Try, if allowed, a full barbed hook for starters.  If that makes a difference then work back to micro-barbs or crushed barbs.  If that doesn't make a difference then try the same fly tied on a larger hook.  If that doesn't work then try a lighter tippet and a longer, lighter weight rod to change how you fight the fish.  If that doesn't work then change rivers and fish.  If that doesn't work then try golf.

 

Good Luck. 

Edited by Peter Patricelli
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First off- thanks to ALL who responded, this is great feedback. Rather than trying to quote specific questions/responses I’m going to make some points to do both.

 

Most I’m losing right after I stick the fish- they flash or turn then are gone. It’s not an issue with tippet breaking. That happens too sometimes, but not like dropping stuck fish.

I don’t remember hearing about micro-barbed hooks, but will look into this for sure. I like the idea of trying barbed or micro-barbs then back to pinched barbs to see if the different hooks make a difference.

I rarely use nymphs smaller than #18, just too hard for my eyes to see when tying on

Being a bass /spin guy 50 + years but a trout/ fly/ nymph fisherman the last 7 or so, I may still set the hook like it’s a bass just by habit. I need to be more conscious of this.

I figured dropping fish was part of nymphing, some days it just seems I drop way too many. Maybe I do. Hopefully I can use a bunch of these suggestions and see a difference.

 

Tight lines (and landed fish) !

"If there is an idiot in power, it means those who elected him are well represented." 

Mahatma Gandhi

 

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Oh, an additional thought, since you mention a hard hook set.  With small, compared to BASS HOOKS, trout flies, a hard hook set is completely unnecessary...and counterproductive.  Small, sharp trout hooks, especially UN-barbed hooks, set with minimal tension.  The main reason lots of beginner trout fishermen have to wildly set the hook is not because the hook requires it (as bass hooks do) but because they typically HAVE SO MUCH SLACK in their lines that they need to take all that up before they can pressure the hook itself.  Also, typically, bass fishermen smash the hookset, then drop their rod to take up slack winding on the reel.  Trout don't require that at all, and that may be your problem.  Just lift the rod to initiate pressure and then MAINTAIN that pressure as the trout shakes its head and then zooms off.  NO SLACK AT ALL, but constant, gentle pressure.

 

The other reality in hooksets is that many fish, and this relates to bigger fish and bigger lures/baits/flies, HOLD and CRUSH the lure/fly in the first seconds they take it, and if that lure/fly does not MOVE....then there is NO hookset at all.  Imagine holding a striper sized clouser in your hand and someone yanks on the line.  If you hold it tight and don't let it move, then you do NOT get hooked.  Let it slide...and you are hooked.  This is WHY bass fishermen SLAM the hookset.  They have to MOVE the lure/fly against the hold of the fish.  This argues for a hard hook set......but.....a smaller trout fly just isn't much of a mouthful and trout don't  hold it hard to kill it like bigger fish.....even stripers......do.  Constant, light, moderate pressure.  No.... SET!...and then maybe slack.  You don't want the trout to spit out the fly as it does detritus, in a controlled spit.  You want, when the fish relaxes its grip on the fly, that your pressure pulls the fly uncontrollably (by the fish) OUT of the trout's mouth control.....and it will likely catch somewhere.

 

I lift to feel the fish's pressure and put a nice bow in the rod, then keep lifting (if necessary) AND strip in line (if necessary) to maintain that constant, safe pressure for the first 5-6 seconds, ready to give line if necessary, but NEVER losing contact.  By that time the hook is set, wherever, and you will succeed or lose depending on that, but you are past the most fragile moment.

 

And then, nymphing, not seeing the fly and the fish, some "bites"....and maybe "dropped fish".......are rocks.

 

Sounds as though you are very new to this with flies.  If so, probably a combination of a lot of things that will straighten out slowly as your casting/slack/line control/ experience improves.  Maybe not quite time for golf.....yet.

Edited by Peter Patricelli
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A lot of my nymphing is done with my rig down stream of me. Big river, steep banks, heavy weight make tough conditions it get a nice long cast upstream. When the fish takes below me my hook to land ratio goes down dramatically. I try my best to set the hook by pulling toward the bank rather than across my body and back upstream. Pulling upstream pulls the fly out of the fishes mouth. While striking towards the bank usually puts the hook into the corner of the mouth. 

 

I jumped per off a couple nice ones yesterday because of this. Just didn’t get a good set and when they jumped there wasn’t enough meat behind the hook to keep them on. 

 

As as far as slack in the line, in my opinion, without slack in my fly line something is going to be causing drag. Rarely do I find a consistent enough current to be able to fish effectively without have a decent amount of slack in my line. Conflicting currents need something to push or pull on without effecting my rig. 

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A lot of my nymphing is done with my rig down stream of me. Big river, steep banks, heavy weight make tough conditions it get a nice long cast upstream. When the fish takes below me my hook to land ratio goes down dramatically. I try my best to set the hook by pulling toward the bank rather than across my body and back upstream. Pulling upstream pulls the fly out of the fishes mouth. While striking towards the bank usually puts the hook into the corner of the mouth. 

 

I jumped per off a couple nice ones yesterday because of this. Just didn’t get a good set and when they jumped there wasn’t enough meat behind the hook to keep them on. 

 

As as far as slack in the line, in my opinion, without slack in my fly line something is going to be causing drag. Rarely do I find a consistent enough current to be able to fish effectively without have a decent amount of slack in my line. Conflicting currents need something to push or pull on without effecting my rig. 

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Thanks for the additional feedback. Can't wait to get back out now and put all this info to good use.

"If there is an idiot in power, it means those who elected him are well represented." 

Mahatma Gandhi

 

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I have been chasing trout and steelhead around the country for 38yrs. About 5 years ago I started to play around with styles of Euro nymphing. Just a few things I learned.

 

Ditch the bobber, for long line nymphing grease your sighter with floatant.

Tightline when you can.

Cast up, across when possible.

Fish close, you will be surprised.

Jig hooks= easier hook sets.

Ditch split shot, tie flies of different weight to match flow and depth.

Have as little fly line on the water as possible, longer rods make this easier.

Just because the fly does not look like anything in the stream does not mean fish will not eat it.

Hooks get dull when bouncing off rocks, sharpen or change flies.

If you never get hung on the bottom, you are fishing to light.

Learn from competitive anglers, you may not agree with what they do but, you can learn something from everyone.

If you are having fun, you do doing it 95% right.

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