gooner

Advice for newcomer to fly fishing(transition from spinning)

41 posts in this topic

It can be tough trying to focus on fishing in Greece  as they have pretty relaxed swim costume attitudes .:)

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Posted (edited)

Gooner

 

I apologise to you. 

 

ok you hit the nail on the head. Bass do like a rough sea. Rough seas often means a strong wind or a ground sea.

 

Stragely a lot of Fly Fishermen will not want to fish rough conditions when they have the best opportunity.

They will want to fish calm conditions that a spin or bait guy would consider pretty poor.

 

In the UK we fish all kinds of water conditions. We have to fish what we are presented with on the day.

 

Trust me it’s tough casting a fly into a strong head wind with any fly rod. 

 

Your friends are. 

1. Good casting ability

2. Heavy fly line.

3 suitable rod.

4 line tray.

 

Yes you can up line an 8 wt rod. But based on my long experience an 8 wt as a general purpose rod is not a very good choice for the ocean.

 

What  you are going  to learn as you  get further into this sport is that many of today’s fly lines are heavier than the AAFTM  standards. Some lines are one up others one point five up and lines like RIO Outbounds two lines up.

 

To make matters worse many of today’s rods are not rated very well. They tend to be under rated. Sometimes by a long way. So for example you think you are buying a 9 wt rod but you need an 11 wt line to match it nicely.

 

It is not easy when you do not as yet know your way around .

 

I hope you do not fall into the trap ofgear selection paralysis.

 

If you did make the wrong call on the rod it is not  wonderful cost  wise but you will know what you need next time you buy one.

 

Ok fly lines. It is only easier to cast a floater from the point of view that you can take it off the water much easier than any sinking line. You will probably still have to roll cast it to get a heavy sunken fly up onto the top of the water.

A floater does not cast quite as well as a sinking line once it’s airborne as it has a larger diameter.

 

The Airflow Cold Water Intermediate  Line is one of the very best lines.

Any sinking line has to be brought up to the surface before you can cast it.

This  can be done by lifting the rod or sometimes just a roll cast  or even several roll caststo get the line properly positioned.

It takes a bit of experience to know how much sunken line you have out in front of you after making some retrieves fishing your fly.

But it does not take that long to get the hang of it.

 

I would start with this line and then soon as I could get a floating line.

 

Some will disagree with me strongly but you need a floating line if you want to fish surface flies and especially poppers. The Intermediate will not fish poppers very well at all. Darned had work and the line will sink the fly.

 

Reels all you need is one big enough to hold your fly line and 100 yards of backing. You don’t need expensive. None of our fish are going to spool you or need much drag.

look at the  Lamson Fusion or Liquide . Airflow reels are pretty good and not expensive.

 

For European Bass your reel is basically just a place to store our line.

 

You are new. Gear is nice and sexy to talk about and decide what to buy.

 

The very best gear is in itself of course not going to  catch you a fish.

 

What often gets lost with new guys when they first get into fly fishing is the ability to get the fly in front of the fish.

 

Get yourself a good cast is the best advice I can offer.

 

The rod you have some info now to make your call.

 

Mike

 

Edited by Mike Oliver

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for start thanks a lot both for your interest! esa i have not seen the airflo bluetooth.its for saltwater use and it is 8/9 wt so no dillema which weight to choose! is it a fast action?i have seen orvis clearwater  but i think its moderast-fast action and someone told me that this type of action doesnt excel in long distances that why i abandoned it! the airflo switch seems a really nice and cheap choice! do you had problem with corrision? MIke my concern for the 9wt over the 8wt is the presentation in calm condition where any splash in the water will spook the bass but you kno better so correct me if i am wrong!for lines i saw the airflo ridger striper floating and intermediate and iu liked it a lot! is it good for the job i want to use it? and last ... esa i am a completely novice i think i am newbie to learn to constract my own shootinmg head lines. my thought is to start with simple WF lines and after a year of fishing go to shooting head o understand the difference between the 2! am i wrong?

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Posted (edited)

wow a lot of information! my mind is a bit confused at the moment!:hooked:mike you have right about the rods.in spinning you have the same problem! 2 rods have fast action but in reality the one is fast and the other moderate fast! the same happens in fly with the -wt- factor! but in greece noone fishes the salt so i dont hjave information about the rods real WT. i have read that to start fly for bass you need a fast 8-9wt action rod a large arbor reel with good drag and floating,intermidate, and d3 sink line! and i am trying to figure it my self alone wioth no knowledge on the technique and the gear and noone to advice me!so forgive me if i am wrong in some things but i am trying to not get confused in all this information! so! to make all things in order! for reel airflo switch or lamson liquid(this was the reel tha clikced me from start) airflo coldwater intermidiate for line.is airflo ridger striper and rio intouch striper for the reason i want it? and what rod?i liked fen wick aetos a lot for its price but airflo bluetooth seems nice too! wow this is a lot more confusing than spinning but thats the beauty !

Edited by gooner

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, gooner said:

for start thanks a lot both for your interest! esa i have not seen the airflo bluetooth.its for saltwater use and it is 8/9 wt so no dillema which weight to choose! is it a fast action?i have seen orvis clearwater  but i think its moderast-fast action and someone told me that this type of action doesnt excel in long distances that why i abandoned it! the airflo switch seems a really nice and cheap choice! do you had problem with corrision? MIke my concern for the 9wt over the 8wt is the presentation in calm condition where any splash in the water will spook the bass but you kno better so correct me if i am wrong!for lines i saw the airflo ridger striper floating and intermediate and iu liked it a lot! is it good for the job i want to use it? and last ... esa i am a completely novice i think i am newbie to learn to constract my own shootinmg head lines. my thought is to start with simple WF lines and after a year of fishing go to shooting head o understand the difference between the 2! am i wrong?

Most rods are fast when marketing BS is read and heard but definition of fast means rod has a tip action. On this link video Tim Rajeff explains rod action and power very well:

 

https://youtube.com/watch?v=tHlJQUOm7wM

 

It is necessary to achieve straight line acceleration path to form narrow line loop and there rod bend comes useful when rod span shortens and rod which bends more from its tip shortens more and caster can use wider casting stroke which can increase line speed. Also when tip action rod shortens its tip bends less backwards and line acceleration efficiency comes higher. Technically current rod technology is poor because rods bend backwards and line does not accelerate as good as it could. However not all rod bend is wasted because rod begins to straighten when caster force input begins to decrease. Stiffer rods can accelerate line better but caster strength and line loop widening limit useful rod stiffness.

 

When rods evolve lighter the cast efficiency comes better when line mass incease on complete fly setup. Recent 2D modeling by Merlin has proof that so called "rod recovery speed" is slower on light blank rod than heavy blank rod but because light rod accelerayes faster it "casts better".

 

There is no rod which casts "the line" longer than "one weight class heavier line" cast with practically any rod which is not too soft!

 

Both Clearwater and Bluetooth rods are medium action rods which effect to casting performance is very very small. When I do maximum distance casting I achieve better consistency using less stiff and slower action rods but when long distance is what is needed to succeed I use stiff tip action rods because when everything goes well there can come 0,5m longer cast but when I suck I loose 1m. I believe it is because the haul efficiency comes better when rod is stiffer.

 

Esa

Edited by crunch

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Posted (edited)

Gooner

 

Take a nice slow deep breath. You are getting so much info and as always some of it Is going to be in conflict. And some of it is going to be incorrect.

A great deal of incorrect Information is out there.

You do not need a fast action rod to enable you to cast well. A moderate fast action works well and will be for a new Guy to the sport a little easier to use.

How far is far. Many guys talk about 90 feet as though this is the norm. I can tell

you that very few guys  are able cast 90 feet in the ocean. So you need to understand what far is. 90 feet is a very long way.

Almost all modern rods be they fast action or moderate fast action have the ability to cast over 100 feet. 

What you need to be able to cast well is skill. Casting skill is best acquired by learning from a qualified teacher. If none available another Angler who is skilled and who can also teach is another solution. Third option is by books and video.

This is likely to slow down the learning process and allow bad habits to form.

ok you feel alone and I understand that for about 20 years ago a friend and I decided we wanted to fly fish for Bass in the UK and there was no one to help and even less suitable tackle at that time. We had to go to the USA for knowledge. We read Lou Tabory’s Book on fly fishing for Striped Bass and that helped a lot. It took us a whole year until we caught our first Bass on the fly. I do not think it will take you that long.

So gear wise you need a rod two lines and a reel some leader material flies and a line tray. So not a huge amount of kit and nothing to get stressed about.

lets go back to the rod.

 

If the conditions you typically fish in are calm and the sea has just a ripple on it then sure you can get away with an 8 wt rod casting small to medium sized flies.  If you get strong breezes and some surf you really will be better off with a 9 wt rod.

 

Dont worry too much about the effect of a slightly heavier fly line splashing down. 

You cant catch fish you can’t even reach if you are under lined and under rodded .

 

It is not easy to get the right kit when you start off. But you learn a great deal and can change it when funds allow.

 

To help chose the right fly line print off the AAFTM tables showing fly line weights. Then always check the weight of any line you are looking at to see where it is compared to the AAFTM standard. 

So many lines are not true to the standards anymore. So it is very easy to over line a rod by too much.

 

ok lines The Airflow Cold Water Intermediate is a very good Line.

They do a wf floater to and check them out if you really want to use a D3.

I would suggest you learn how to fish the I line and floater before to start fishing a D3 or faster sink line.

I would stay clear of their 40 plus lines right now and also shooting heads.

Much easier to learn your craft with a wf integrated fly line.

 

leaders  keep them mostly short when fishing a sunk fly line say around 1.5 to 2 meters.

Floating fly line you may wish to go to 3.5 meters. Suggest a single piece of either 15 lb. or 20 lb test clear mono or  Flouro.

 

Reels is where if you need to save money on you can. The Lamsons are ok and if you go for the reel  offer with two spare spools  it costs just £100 in UK tackle shops.

 

You need the spare spools if you are going to fish wf integrated fly lines.

 

The rods and blanks I know really well are outside of your budget I think.

 

I trust Esa’s Opinion when he says the Orvis Clear Water is a good rod. Mod action and true to its rating.

 

That is important when you are trying to match rods and lines .

 

Is this helping you?

 

At this stage if you keep on  trawling the Internet you are going to get too many different opinions and it is hard for you to know if they are good or bad.

 

Have you done  much reading apart from magazine articles.

 

If you already fish for Bass with spin tackle you know where and when to fish for them.

You have a head start . All you are now doing is casting a fly to them.

 

It is a simple sport gear wise nothing to get stressed up about.

 

Like anything new you need acquire knowledge it just won’t happen overnight. Thank goodness for that . We never stop learning in this sport.

 

Maybe if you look hard enough you will find other salt water fly guys in Greece.

 

Keep asking questions . The guys will try and help you. You are not on your own.

 

Mike

 

 

Edited by Mike Oliver

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well :) esa so you dont need a fast rod to cast a lot of feet! you can do it with a moderate-fast rod too and the differences are 1m maximum! mike it seems i have got a lot of bad information outthere!i thought that stiffer rods cats far longer than moderate-fast!i told that faster rods cast better against wind too!i have seen a lot of videos how to double haul but it is different when you practice it alone!noone is fly fishing saltwater here in greece so there is no teacher or another angelr to teach me!i have read 3 books for fly fishing -fly rodding the coast- -saltwater fly fishing- and -fly fishing the surf- but they are more general fishing books than fly fishing books but they have a chapter for fly casting!the condiitons i typically fish is pretty calm with small ripple as you descirebed!  i like rough condition  cause i  think more bass are near the shore with difficult circumstances but i am fishing in a small gulf and i fish this condtion only 2-3 times a year!lure wize bass feed mainly with 9-12 cm lures and 14 maximum in the peak of the season!the biggest advantage fly fishing has over spinning is presentation thats why i was a bit worried about the heavier splash an 9wt line will do! the airflow coldwater fly line seems nice! i liked airflo ridge striper too some guys in holland and uk use it a lot! i am a bit confused in the leader section! leader and tipet are different things and exist in the saltwater fly fishing right? or it is just simple leader like it is at spinning?lamson liquid is the reel that caught my eye from the start. orvis clear water seems very nice rod and i like the option esa gave me the airflo bluetooth nano 8/9 ! i am fishing for bass with bait and spinning foir all my life so i know when and where to find them i just need the technique knowledge! thanks for the replies :)

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Orvis clearwater is the best low end rod, if you go cheaper in the US there is the echo base which is mehhh. You are in EU so Esa's suggestions are probably better. For casting look up sexy loops masterclass on vimeo, it will teach you everything you need to know about casting for fishing.

Technique = distance, not the rod.   

For reels you dont need anything exceptional given the size of fish you are fishing for, its just a line carrier. As long it retrieves line it should be fine. The behemoth is good but its a bit heavy. The cheap china reels would work aswell (personally I dont have any problem with manufacturing in China, if people were that concerned about supporting manufacturing or human rights in America or Europe they would be spending a lot more on commodities like clothes and such. If you can afford it go ahead but in your case I think its a non factor)

Barrio makes good and cheap lines. I would look at the GT90. It also comes in inter and i think sinking. 

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5 hours ago, gooner said:

well :) esa so you dont need a fast rod to cast a lot of feet! you can do it with a moderate-fast rod too and the differences are 1m maximum! mike it seems i have got a lot of bad information outthere!i thought that stiffer rods cats far longer than moderate-fast!i told that faster rods cast better against wind too!i have seen a lot of videos how to double haul but it is different when you practice it alone!noone is fly fishing saltwater here in greece so there is no teacher or another angelr to teach me!---

---the biggest advantage fly fishing has over spinning is presentation thats why i was a bit worried about the heavier splash an 9wt line will do! the airflow coldwater fly line seems nice! i liked airflo ridge striper too some guys in holland and uk use it a lot! i am a bit confused in the leader section! leader and tipet are different things and exist in the saltwater fly fishing right? or it is just simple leader like it is at spinning?lamson liquid is the reel that caught my eye from the start. orvis clear water seems very nice rod and i like the option esa gave me the airflo bluetooth nano 8/9

I have test many rods trying to find even slight gain and there is so little difference that it is almost impossible to achieve meaningful difference when I can't test indoors and even the slight wind has more influence than the rod. So I know fly fishing people lie to us and loudest liers are Yellowstone Anglers guys who get 20ft and sometimes bigger differences :(

 

However fly line weight has huge influence to casting performance. One weight class heavier is about 15% and it increase distance 4% to 5%. I have done two tests where I did cast lines which were two line weight class apart. I did cast SA Sharkskin WF6F and WF8F. 8wt has bit longer head that 6wt which does increase distance but I believe it had small effect. Rods which were #6, #8, #10 had no effect but the challenge was first getting to adjust to the setup so that consistency become better.

 

I have strong believe that fast/tip action rod comes slightly but definitely better when hauling is good and it is because its so called "lock up effect" is stronger. Tip action rod is prone to Tailing Loops too so medium action is recommended as a first rod. Garry Evans has Clearwater setup for about £260 but I am sure you will like AF Nan Tec rod too. When I did cast it first time it felt like evolved TFO TiCrX which has good reputation as a hard core fishing tool.

 

I am known here that I like light weight setups but it is because I try to practice casting a lot and using light setup I can do it longer and more often. I do up to one minute sets of false casting aerialising as much as possible line which I hope in two months is full 27m (90ft) DT7F which weights 38g (585gr) out of rod tip with haul length of overhang and that aleady is sport :)

 

Fly line weight should somewhat match the fly size in the first place but salt water fishing conditions sometimes need to be considered where wind and fishing range are two important vatiables where heavier line can come better. Sometimes delicate presentation is needed where heavier line weight can have disadvantage but this can be improved using longer leader so fly lands longer from the line. Again one weight class heavier line weights about 15% more which can be compensated using perhaps one feet longer leader? But in practice line head tapers too have significant differences and lighter line tip can be heavier than other profile which head is heavier. Using longer leader is easy trick to increase casting distance but finding a length which is still easy to cast with certain fly and line needs to be tested.

 

AF Cold Water has nice overall head profile when its front and rear tapers are about 8ft and in between is level. 8ft front taper does not straighten too powerfully so it is easier to cast than another widely used OB taper which is easier with big fly. The WF line I have been enjoyed a lot is AF CAST which has long rear taper which makes it easy to cast very good narrow line loops and long casts.

 

Lately I have vacationed Greece islands yearly and enjoyed fly fishing very clear waters where fish can be seen and which are interested in flyes but I have succeed fooling only few small mullets using "bread fly" technicue :) 

 

Esa

 

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Gooner

 

You are getting some pretty solid info,from Esa and iamamonody.

 

I am not going to cut across it and confuse things.

 

I will just say that it is a commonly held belief that stiff fast action rods are better for casting into a head wind and greater distance. I agree a very good caster might get some gains but not much. An average caster probably none at all. It is not all about distance and casting short with these rods would be difficult.

 

A fast actioned stiff rod rated incorrectly ie underated would be a nightmare for a new Guy and not that good for your average caster either. 

 

If you can run to the Orvis rod that would be a key part of your kit sorted.

 

You have to decide if it’s going to be an 8 or 9 wt.

 

As to splash down of a. 9 wt verses an 8 wt line. A Bass will be able to detect both in flat calm and rippled water.

Good casting when it’s calm can reduce some of the effect of splash down and as Esa mentioned slightly longer leaders can help.

 

You asked about leader and tippet.  Ok a leader can come as a factory made tapered leader. Or it can be just a simple lengthof flouro or clear momo. Typically around 15 or 20 lbs test. The tippet is a shorter piece of lighter material which is knotted to the end of the leader and tied to the fly. An easy way to do this is to make a loop to loop connection and this makes changing tippets as they get shorter through fly changes very quick and easy.

 

So you might say have a four foot long 20 lb leader and have tied to it a tippet of 15 lbs .

 

You can make your own tapered leaders if you want to with different test lines but not absolutely necessary to catch fish. Loads of info on how to do this on SOL and on U Tube.

 

I would put money on it that there will be other salt water Fly Fishers in Greece.

 

There must be Greek fishing forums and you can reach out and connect that way.

There maybe a club  or Association you can contact.

 

You might wish to join the UK Bass Society google up UK Bass.

We have a closed members forum and four mags a year. We are a conservation  minded society and lobby UK and European governments over Bass management issues. We also organise fishing trips. Some of us do over seas trips to fish for Stripers.  The yearly cost is only about E30. We do have a few members based mainland Europe.

Much of Striper fishing with the fly is transferable to our Bass. So it is valuable to read USA books. Lou Tabory’s, Ed Mitchell Ray Bonderew and Rich Murphy are great books to learn from. You can google up the titles of their books.

 

Good luck

 

mike

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Posted (edited)

10 hours ago, iamnobody said:

Orvis clearwater is the best low end rod, if you go cheaper in the US there is the echo base which is mehhh. You are in EU so Esa's suggestions are probably better. For casting look up sexy loops masterclass on vimeo, it will teach you everything you need to know about casting for fishing.

Technique = distance, not the rod.   

For reels you dont need anything exceptional given the size of fish you are fishing for, its just a line carrier. As long it retrieves line it should be fine. The behemoth is good but its a bit heavy. The cheap china reels would work aswell (personally I dont have any problem with manufacturing in China, if people were that concerned about supporting manufacturing or human rights in America or Europe they would be spending a lot more on commodities like clothes and such. If you can afford it go ahead but in your case I think its a non factor)

Barrio makes good and cheap lines. I would look at the GT90. It also comes in inter and i think sinking. 

orvis clearwater is for sure my first choice but i dont know if i have the budget! as a cheaper alternative i am looking at the airflo bluetooth nano! i just checked the video on vimeo and i understand a lot thank you :p

 

4 hours ago, crunch said:

I have test many rods trying to find even slight gain and there is so little difference that it is almost impossible to achieve meaningful difference when I can't test indoors and even the slight wind has more influence than the rod. So I know fly fishing people lie to us and loudest liers are Yellowstone Anglers guys who get 20ft and sometimes bigger differences :(

 

However fly line weight has huge influence to casting performance. One weight class heavier is about 15% and it increase distance 4% to 5%. I have done two tests where I did cast lines which were two line weight class apart. I did cast SA Sharkskin WF6F and WF8F. 8wt has bit longer head that 6wt which does increase distance but I believe it had small effect. Rods which were #6, #8, #10 had no effect but the challenge was first getting to adjust to the setup so that consistency become better.

 

I have strong believe that fast/tip action rod comes slightly but definitely better when hauling is good and it is because its so called "lock up effect" is stronger. Tip action rod is prone to Tailing Loops too so medium action is recommended as a first rod. Garry Evans has Clearwater setup for about £260 but I am sure you will like AF Nan Tec rod too. When I did cast it first time it felt like evolved TFO TiCrX which has good reputation as a hard core fishing tool.

 

I am known here that I like light weight setups but it is because I try to practice casting a lot and using light setup I can do it longer and more often. I do up to one minute sets of false casting aerialising as much as possible line which I hope in two months is full 27m (90ft) DT7F which weights 38g (585gr) out of rod tip with haul length of overhang and that aleady is sport :)

 

Fly line weight should somewhat match the fly size in the first place but salt water fishing conditions sometimes need to be considered where wind and fishing range are two important vatiables where heavier line can come better. Sometimes delicate presentation is needed where heavier line weight can have disadvantage but this can be improved using longer leader so fly lands longer from the line. Again one weight class heavier line weights about 15% more which can be compensated using perhaps one feet longer leader? But in practice line head tapers too have significant differences and lighter line tip can be heavier than other profile which head is heavier. Using longer leader is easy trick to increase casting distance but finding a length which is still easy to cast with certain fly and line needs to be tested.

 

AF Cold Water has nice overall head profile when its front and rear tapers are about 8ft and in between is level. 8ft front taper does not straighten too powerfully so it is easier to cast than another widely used OB taper which is easier with big fly. The WF line I have been enjoyed a lot is AF CAST which has long rear taper which makes it easy to cast very good narrow line loops and long casts.

 

Lately I have vacationed Greece islands yearly and enjoyed fly fishing very clear waters where fish can be seen and which are interested in flyes but I have succeed fooling only few small mullets using "bread fly" technicue :) 

 

Esa

 

 Esa its the yellowstone angler 8wt shoutout that make my mind think faster rod= greater distance and most expensive rod= more power and distance! as it seems its the classic marketing trick as always!as you consider i am between the 2 rods (clearwater and bluetooth naono) but i am edging towards the bluetooth beacuse of the price! its nice trick the leader thing to not spook the fish but sometimes when you are searching for the fish the line will land over the fish because you dont know exactly where the fish holds...the airflo coldwater line seems nice and it will be my buy i think at intermediate! you have tried the airflo ridge striper?

 

1 hour ago, Mike Oliver said:

Gooner

 

You are getting some pretty solid info,from Esa and iamamonody.

 

I am not going to cut across it and confuse things.

 

I will just say that it is a commonly held belief that stiff fast action rods are better for casting into a head wind and greater distance. I agree a very good caster might get some gains but not much. An average caster probably none at all. It is not all about distance and casting short with these rods would be difficult.

 

A fast actioned stiff rod rated incorrectly ie underated would be a nightmare for a new Guy and not that good for your average caster either. 

 

If you can run to the Orvis rod that would be a key part of your kit sorted.

 

You have to decide if it’s going to be an 8 or 9 wt.

 

As to splash down of a. 9 wt verses an 8 wt line. A Bass will be able to detect both in flat calm and rippled water.

Good casting when it’s calm can reduce some of the effect of splash down and as Esa mentioned slightly longer leaders can help.

 

You asked about leader and tippet.  Ok a leader can come as a factory made tapered leader. Or it can be just a simple lengthof flouro or clear momo. Typically around 15 or 20 lbs test. The tippet is a shorter piece of lighter material which is knotted to the end of the leader and tied to the fly. An easy way to do this is to make a loop to loop connection and this makes changing tippets as they get shorter through fly changes very quick and easy.

 

So you might say have a four foot long 20 lb leader and have tied to it a tippet of 15 lbs .

 

You can make your own tapered leaders if you want to with different test lines but not absolutely necessary to catch fish. Loads of info on how to do this on SOL and on U Tube.

 

I would put money on it that there will be other salt water Fly Fishers in Greece.

 

There must be Greek fishing forums and you can reach out and connect that way.

There maybe a club  or Association you can contact.

 

You might wish to join the UK Bass Society google up UK Bass.

We have a closed members forum and four mags a year. We are a conservation  minded society and lobby UK and European governments over Bass management issues. We also organise fishing trips. Some of us do over seas trips to fish for Stripers.  The yearly cost is only about E30. We do have a few members based mainland Europe.

Much of Striper fishing with the fly is transferable to our Bass. So it is valuable to read USA books. Lou Tabory’s, Ed Mitchell Ray Bonderew and Rich Murphy are great books to learn from. You can google up the titles of their books.

 

Good luck

 

mike

mike i understand now! its like spinning a regular-fast rod is more forgivable than an extra fast rod! more forgivable in casting and fight the fish!its the same at fly! so i have no reason to go to something fast if it didnt give me extra distance! i am edging at the airflo bluetooth compared to orvis because of price!and at lamson liquid for reel! the rod is 8/9 weight so both of us will be satisfied :pthe question about the leader is this! the simple fluoro as the leader gives the same things a the tappered leader?because the diametre of the 2 leaders is different. the first is always the same but the second it becomes thiner as we go to the low end!

 

In greece there was only 1 swff but he is innactive at the moment he has found new hoobies! for freshwater fly there 30-50 people but they dont have an open forum so i cant take something from them!3 open forums for spinning but nothing for fly!it seems weird to you to not fly fishing in greece but believe me its the sad truth spinning dominates the market here!we greeks we are known for the easy result and we are not like difficult journeys...

you are talking about the BASS anglers sportfoishing society?

Edited by gooner

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Yes The Bass Anglers  Sport Fishing Society.

 

leaders for sinking lines mostly we don’t need  more than 2 meters. There is absolutely no problem turning over fly with a straight 2 m long leader.

 

You could buy a tapered leader that is ok but they are way more expensive and you do not need them. Mostly they are 9 feet so if you want to shorten it you are throwing away one third of  an expensive leader.

Leaders get tangled up and twisted so making your own is better mostly.

 

You need a longer leader when fishing a floating  line to get any depths at all with your fly. You could use a shop tapered leader and as it shortens through changing flies loop on some tippet material.

 

Leaders need not be fancy. Ok on very hard days when fish are really spooky you might get some help from a 10 or 12 lb test tippet.

 

Tippet is just a way of saying the end part of your leader. If you buy it on spools marked as tippet you pay stupid money through the nose and for short lengths.

Buy 100 m spools of clear mono or flouro for both leader and tippet.

 

I don’t bother with tippets I use just a straight length of 15 or 20 lb for our Bass.

 

Twenty years ago it was common for rods to be rated for two lines 8/9  6/7 etc.

 

The theory was the higher rating was for wf lines and the  lower for double taper lines where more head might be put into the air.

 

The Airflow rod should handle both 8 and 9 lines but I have never  cast  it so do not know for certain.

 

Every rod can handle a line one down and one up.

 

You are better off putting money to your rod rather than even the Lamson reels.

 

You do not need a great reel. You can save money on the reel.

 

Key components are your rod and fly line. That’s where you are best off putting most of your budget. They help you get your fly to the fish.

 

Ok nice if you can find another fly guy who will fish with you  but not necessary you can learn how to do this by yourself. 

If I can manage   it anyone can.

 

Dont lose most of the season worrying about the gear . Life’s too short.

 

Mike

 

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Gooner

 

You have fly fishing in Greece. Ok so itsTrout. Use google and make contact with these guys. Tell them what you are doing. You may find that others are interested to. You can be the Greek lead in this.

 

The payback for doing that will be considerable.

 

Mike

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The Common Cents System and other statistics:

 

Airflo Bluetooth Nano 9' #8/9: IP=154g, AA=68, length 2755mm, weights: butt 84.3g + 24.2g + 12.3g + tip 5.58g = 126.38g

 

Orvis Clearwater 9' #8: IP=153g, AA=65, length 2738mm, weights: butt 67.4g + 20.7g + 9.9g + tip 4.75g = 102.75g

 

Orvis Helios 9' #8: IP=181g, AA=65, length 2745mm, weights: butt 58.23g + 20.23g + 9.45g + tip 4.62g = 92.53g

 

This proofs that Nanotechnology does not make blanks light although Bluetooth snakes are thicker and bigger than Clearwater snakes. Bluetooth reel seat looks stronger and is perhaps 10g heavier than Clearwater reel seat. Orvis Clearwater is very light and when compared to Helios obviously its cork and reel seat are heavier. Helios is stiffer but it does not incease weight. Clearwater top three sections are only slightly heavier than Helios and obviously it comes from steel snakes against Helios very thin titanium composite snakes.

 

Esa

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18 mins ago, crunch said:

Airflo Bluetooth Nano 9' #8/9: IP=154g,  top three sections: 24.2g + 12.3g + tip 5.58g

 

Orvis Helios 9' #8: IP=181g  top three sections: 20.23g + 9.45g + tip 4.62g

 

Now some speculation how money can buy a little bit of performance using the above statistics. Bluetooth is used to cast WF8 line which head weights 260gr. Helios is 17% stiffer so it can used to cast one weight class heavier WF9 head which is 300gr and 15,4% more so both bend about the same and no overload symptoms exist. 40gr = 2.6g heavier. Helios tip is 0.96g lighter but when it bends it comes closer so I use 0.7g of the saved weight for heavier line. Second section is 2.8g lighter but it is closer so I use only 2g of saved weight. Third section is 4g lighter but it is even closer so I use only 1g saved weight totalling 3.7g so casting 2.6g heavier weight can "feel" even lighter and Helios could be used to cast even heavier line than this 3.7g example because blank bends slightly less because it is lighter and stiffer. Earlier I wrote my finding that one line weight class increase distance 4% to 5% and from very good 8wt 80ft cast the distance increase to 83ft or even 84ft and no more effort is need. Discounted Helios did cost $500 and discounted Bluetooth $140 so one feet of more distance costs about $100...$120.

 

Esa

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