hipkvw

Shooting Head Frustration!!! Question....

128 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Otshawytsha said:

That's funny. I have to rotate counterclockwise. Do you have a pretty much over hand cast as opposed to like a Belgian and sidearm casts?

I try to keep rod as upright as possible but I back cast rod tilted slightly to the right. My right side Spey casting also needs the rod rotated clockwise and left side counter clockwise.

 

Esa

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22 mins ago, crunch said:

I try to keep rod as upright as possible but I back cast rod tilted slightly to the right. My right side Spey casting also needs the rod rotated clockwise and left side counter clockwise.

 

Esa

Cool. I tend to Belgian cast with a back cast that comes back sidearm and the raises upward to a stop then come forward with a more upright path. 

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44 mins ago, Otshawytsha said:

 

HipK, Can you describe the connection between your shooting head and shooting line. What kind of loops, knots, and how big is the loop in the shooting line?

 

You seem to keep seizing on the worst advice in this thread while totally ignoring all the good constructive stuff. 

 

 

Did I seize on anything in particular that I dont recall? Not sure I said much more than I was abandoning the shooting heads and going back to full lines. I have the Scandi set-ups for my two-handers. 

 

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7 mins ago, Otshawytsha said:

Cool. I tend to Belgian cast with a back cast that comes back sidearm and the raises upward to a stop then come forward with a more upright path. 

How come I do not have the twist issue with regular lines but had issues with the running line and heads?

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49 mins ago, Mike Oliver said:

SH for TH are even more of a pain.

 

 

Lots of noise about  SH systems but I don’t see many on the beach.

 

Mono running line on a windy exposed beach. That must be great fun.

 

Mike

I got the TH for rivers...smallies, trout, and Salmon. I use std rods fro all other fishing. Mono on the windy beach....nah. no thanks

 

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Posted (edited)

23 mins ago, hipkvw said:

Did I seize on anything in particular that I dont recall? 

 

You seemed to take a liking to the two posts that involved throwing shooting heads in trash or splicing them to create basically a full line with a floating shooting line equivalent basically to a WF i.e. not a shooting head really. Both these posts are valid ones, but are basically the equivalent of saying you aren't going to even try to work out the problem

 

20 mins ago, hipkvw said:

How come I do not have the twist issue with regular lines but had issues with the running line and heads?

I think it comes down to casting stroke. Shooting heads also can swing around pretty easily on the end of that shooting line and I guess twist much easier. Maybe Crunch can shed light. 

 

But how do we know it is indeed a line twist issue? Could be memory in that shooting line or it's small diameter or lack of stretching it. I guess we'll never know! 

 

Edited by Otshawytsha

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Both WF lines and shooting heads twist between line head and reel when I cast but mono running line seems to twist more perhaps because it has less torsional stiffness.

 

Esa

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Braided nylon for me usually stuffed with GSP braid, the fused stuff is good or you could try stuffing it with mono the late Max style. Otherwise I used to use Stren 30lb fluoro yellow mono left stretched out in the garden for a few days and never had any problems with it. Advantage with splicing running line to a head is that you can resurrect an old WF line and attach it to  any running line that you like or make up lines for SH or DH use of the type that are no longer available on the market for very little money. Always used to permanently splice braided nylon to heads made out of DT lines for reservoir work and still called them shooting heads. No problems using them with DH rods either in fact if you want long casts with minimum effort then that is the way to go just make sure your heads are long enough. Yeah that rattle in the rod rings can be a pain but a long loop blind splice in the braid has lots of advantages. But if I am paying big bucks for a guide and boat then I use a full line every time can't think of a single reason why other than habit you can lay a shooting head down as lightly as any other line but you do have to strip it back to head for neat pick ups...well I do.

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4 hours ago, Otshawytsha said:

With the braided mono, it's low stretch? I'm guessing this makes for more fun fishing in terms of feeling the strikes? How is the memory on these lines after they have dried on a reel and can you stretch them when fishing to remove memory somewhat?

 

     There's no memory, and very little stretch (airflo miracle braid has a gsp core, SA braid is polyethylene). Braided mono has come a long way since the days of Gudebrod & Cortland (Cortland is making braided mono again, and it's truly awful). 

   I use shooting heads for everything from musky and smallmouth in Quebec to snook and tarpon in our surf. They help me cover massive amounts of water with bigger flies for musky, and the reduced drag coefficient on the running line helps me mend over the break when working the surf. Integrated lines just fall short. As for splicing defeating the purpose, what purpose? I keep an intermediate obs head on a 7, and a 9wt year round. The 11wt gets an SA intermediate (since rio won't make one), I keep a different 9 with a type VI, and have type III and type VI heads with their own running lines in my glove box as redundancies, just in case. Swapping these out isn't any more difficult than with an integrated line.

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Local, As to splicing, I didn't mean to say splicing itself, but splicing to a full floater's coated running line. You lose the benefit of the smaller diameter shooting line that way and basically just have a full line. Splicing seems like a good option for a shooting line to a head. 

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Posted (edited)

I have used Berkley big game as mono shooting line with loop made with double surgeons knot pulled extremely tight until knot “melts” connected to a 50 lb  gudebrod  butt leader loop on shooting head without large loops so changing heads requires passing entire shooting head through loop. This set up works and loop knot doesn’t bother me going through guides. It actually broadcasts how much shooting line is down inside guides on rod and at night you can judge how much of shooting line is outside rod tip so you can make a good cast. Drawbacks are: you don’t have to stretch Big Game but it must be wet well in advance (3 hours at least) of fishing, it can still tangle  and twist but small flies work better versus crease flies, poppers and beast flies and changing heads is time consuming but I might try set up with either large loop on shooting head or shooting line to facilitate changing heads. Used to use Gudebrod 35 lb butt leader as shooting line and it worked great, rarely tangling and sand abraiding guides never seemed to be an issue but  Max Garth used to warn users of braid as shooting line on sandy beaches image.thumb.jpg.18b9e9543e44973536593e9c40d22416.jpgBC76BDFD-60E5-4A0E-9081-B5A721BC9CEA.thumb.jpeg.432a630ba2c143d2903ad89c8e98421d.jpeg

about this problem. Gudebrod was a great company and their products were impeccable so it’s too bad they went out of business. Never tried making a shooting line by stuffing braid with mono because it was extremely difficult to find the kind of Loctite cement Garth used to secure mono inside braid to keep it from sliding around.  Also used to use SA coated level floating fly line designed as a shooting line and they were Ok but they wore out fast. Current coated shooting lines may be more durable? There may be better options for all of this but these are my experiments and experiences 

photo 2 - butt leader shooting line with small loop.

photo 1 - Big Game shooting line with tear drop double surgeons loop knot on loop attached to shooting head.

DC9C405A-B20E-4858-B890-51BFE6F44D89.jpeg

057AD704-2468-4081-AA16-68E5A3AD58E5.jpeg

Edited by flyrad10
Update photo sequence

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Gudebrod's gone!?! I have same setup in terms of gudebrod loop to big game but with differences in knots and lb test. I agree the knot helps you know when the head is outside the tip when casting night and day.

 

Why not just attach with a clinch knot? Makes changing heads easy!

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I've been enjoying Airflo Miracle braid with shooting heads. It does tangle from time to time but the tangles are really easy to get out, generally. And it shoots a mile. The biggest problem I have with it is wind picking it up out of the stripping basket (but then waves do that too, with regular running line, so...).

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Question, how many fish have taken you into your backing and did the fish take most of it? For me the only fish that took me into my backing was an Albie and then I was able to land it without any problems. 

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